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Old 06-04-2015, 02:22 PM   #1
Steve Wastler
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Default 1925 Franklin ?

Any of you guys familiar with mid twenties Franklins? I went to get one running today that hasn't run for 7-8 years, it had quite running and was towed home those years ago. The owners grandfather bought it new, then was his moms, then his. He thought it may be fuel related, I figured it was electrical.

Popped off the distributor cap and looked at the contacts, rotor and points, all were very corroded. Cleaned contacts inside and on top, and rotor button in cap as well as the rotor and points. Cleaned another dozen electrical connections.

I was going to pull the carb and clean it, but thought we would see if it would at least run on ether, which it did after a few revolutions.

Sediment bowl filled with ok looking gas, since it was last run 7+ years ago I figured it was before the ethanol blend crap gas, so I turned the gas valve on, and it ran. We put in a few gallons of premium gas to help with the old stuff in the tank. After a few minutes, raw gas was dripping from the exhaust manifold flange on # 6 cylinder and this cylinder was not firing.

I am thinking the issue lies in the carb with a blocked passage or jet, and with # 6 being the lowest on the intake manifold, it was getting the raw fuel that was flowing 'down hill'. The liquid fuel wasn't allowing this cylinder to fire.

I had removed the screws to the bowl cap on the carb, and the bowl had been dry from evaporation, couldn't get the cover off without removing the primer assembly, so I put the cover back on.

While not running the carb doesn't flood, with gas on, so I'm assuming it's not a float or needle/seat issue.

It starts quick and runs on the new/old gas mix, but have the issue of raw fuel from ex manifold and no fire at number 6. Sparks good with #6 plug out on intake.

I am thinking I need to pull the carb and give it a good cleaning, anyone concur? Thoughts?
Thanks in advance....
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Old 06-04-2015, 02:30 PM   #2
Patrick L.
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

While #6 sparkler was out did you check for any compression in that hole ?
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Old 06-04-2015, 02:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Actually, I didn't do a compression check with gauge or thumb, but you could certainly hear it pushing, pulling air with plug out. I will add, the other cylinders' plugs were wet with un-burnt fuel, but were firing. Will take gauge on next trip...
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Old 06-04-2015, 02:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Here's a pic....
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Old 06-04-2015, 03:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Nice car!
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Old 06-04-2015, 03:37 PM   #6
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Thats a heck of a car ! I like Franklins, they were built close to here.

What carburetor does this monster have ? In the early years they made their own.
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Old 06-04-2015, 03:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Bumped into a 1929 Franklin a few years back - wonderful car and still have pics of the motor. That one had an updraft carb mounted a good 6 to 8" below the manifold -not sure if your year is the same. I can not see how any carb issue could put gas into the intake manifold to dribble out. It would actually run out of the air cleaner first.

#6 would need to be checked for compression and spark as mentioned above.
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Old 06-04-2015, 03:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Never run old gas that years old. Even mixing fresh with it is not good. What happens is the engine will run but as the old gas gets all over inside the old gas will gum up the valve stems and make the valves stick open. If it's a flathead you will loose the compression in that cylinder. If it's an overhead valve engine you may bend/break valves and pistons.
Hopefully the Damage is not already done to a priceless engine.
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Pretty sure nothing 'physically' broke in the short time it was run. As soon as the drips started we shut it down. Gonna do a compression check on number six, verify valves there are working and will drain the tank and add fresh fuel if we deem it run-able. Will have to see....
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

I agree, and would save the old gas for cleaning parts, and put new gas in the tank.
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Old 06-04-2015, 07:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Remember, Most carburetor problems are electrical.
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

If that is a pot metal carburettor, handle it with care, as it is very fragile. I broke one on a 28 Franklin with very little effort. Replaced it with a cast iron one.
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Wow beautiful cars!, are all those holes in the firewall of that blue one used for stuff???
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullraceflathead View Post
Never run old gas that years old. Even mixing fresh with it is not good. What happens is the engine will run but as the old gas gets all over inside the old gas will gum up the valve stems and make the valves stick open. If it's a flathead you will loose the compression in that cylinder. If it's an overhead valve engine you may bend/break valves and pistons.
Hopefully the Damage is not already done to a priceless engine.
heard that
old gas is like molasses to the valve train. i saw that happen on a 64 belvedere with a brand new engine. the valves stuck so bad the heads had to come off..

nice franklin steve very sharp
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

I know nothing about a Franklin but the post from 2manycars (if it's the same engine) I would think you'd need some decent compression or vacuum to get vaporized (or what ever you call it) gas to the last (6) cyclinder. Just a bad guess.

Nice car!
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

If you have raw gas dipping from #6 I hi I the manifold need to be fixed as well. Could that be where there is low compression?

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Old 06-04-2015, 08:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

If the car happens to be for sale please send me a private message. Wayne
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Old 06-05-2015, 06:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Carb is all brass, not pot metal, couldn't read the manufacturers name on the bowl cover. The Franklin is fairly complex in its fuel system. I am finding little information pertaining to the total workings.

I can see old gas causing issues in a newly rebuilt engine with tight tolerances, but not so much on this engine for the 2-3 minutes total run time yesterday.
There is too much unburnt fuel passing THRU the rear cylinder for it not to have descent compression.

The gas albeit old, can't be too damn bad as it starts on the 2nd or third revolution no ether or choke needed.

It has a centrifugal air cleaner, which is basically a fan, no filter element, which has to be helping push fuel up to that interesting intake. Either the primer assembly is stuck open, or there is some issue in the carb. Reason for asking if anyone had Experience with THIS make auto.

Maififold vacuum pulls the fuel into the vacuum canister, so vacuum would seem sufficient.

Will have to post my questions on aaca forum to see if I get a response from a franklin guy or guys.

Wayne, at this time the current owner is keen on keeping it, if that changes I'll certainly let you know.
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Old 06-05-2015, 07:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSlugs View Post
Wow beautiful cars!, are all those holes in the firewall of that blue one used for stuff???
Yes, the holes were for wiring and other stuff. that was an extensive and expensive restoration that I did about 15 years ago. It won a trophy at the Greenwich Concours, and it still looks good, as the owner keeps it in a climate controled garage.
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Old 06-05-2015, 07:02 AM   #20
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
I know nothing about a Franklin but the post from 2manycars (if it's the same engine) I would think you'd need some decent compression or vacuum to get vaporized (or what ever you call it) gas to the last (6) cyclinder. Just a bad guess.

Nice car!
That is a huge engine, and produces impressive power.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:57 AM   #21
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

The Franklin Museum at The Gilmore is impressive. But I really like the one at Tucson. That one has two touring cars that have V12 engines. You can't see much of the engines because they have shrouds to move the air across the fins. That does not spoil the view, though. Great colors, too.
Next time your are in Michigan ... or Arizona ... make the visit.
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Old 06-11-2015, 03:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ? UPDATE

So I informed the owner we needed to drain the tank and check for compression. He had drained the tank a few days ago, and added a couple gallons of fresh fuel. Since it has individual valve covers, we removed them to visually verify there were no stuck valves, and observed the valve train operating as it should. With plugs out, compression check showed all 6 within 2-3 lbs of each other, mid 50's psi.

Removed the carb to find it very dirty internally. The brass fuel filter in the carb is pretty much Swiss cheese and wouldn't stop small rocks. Needle valve was not sealing to the seat, jets plugged and so forth. Cleaned it up, put it back together, fired it up, same issue fuel coming out exhaust manifold flange.

So as I'm looking at the glass sediment bowl and thinking how good this gas looked, and it hit me, the vacuum tank had not been drained. Grabbed a jar and opened the petcock, well, there is were the fuel issue lay. The crap that came out, surely was unburnable and is what was coming out #6. Filled the vacuum tank with fresh fuel, started it up, no fluid leak at rear cylinder and it (#6) is firing.

starts quick, but is running really rich. Found an original service manual on eBay, he should have it in a week. Will probably go thru carb again, and see if we can make or find a filter screen, and will be able to adjust carb according to manual. This carb is quite complex, makes a zenith appear so freaking primitive. Looks to need plug wires as insulation was melting near the plug end clip, must be loose inside the end.

Attached is a pic of the stuff from the vacuum tank, no wonder it wouldn't burn, and boy did it ever stink! Will be about a week or more before my next visit, but am making good headway on a vehicle that has been stored a significant time with numerous issues.
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Neat car thanks for posting
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

I used to save the old filters from automatic transmissions because some of them has a nice piece of fine mesh brass screen. At the Iola swap meet I bought a roll of fine brass screen, and the seller said it was a Harley oil filter. I've never been in a smoke shop, but I've heard they also sell fine mesh brass screen.

I'd visit a local tranny shop and see if they don't have some old filters they would give you.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Cool.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:11 AM   #26
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I believe it is never wise to start a car that has not been run in so many years. What was reason it was parked. It is not worth damaging an engine without knowing what the condition of the oil pan, oil, oil pump gears, pistons, corrosion in head, especially if aluminum,carburetor(cork float)vacuum tank (internals) and especially fuel. A bit of educated diligence can save a nice engine's life span.
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Old 06-16-2015, 03:17 AM   #27
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Default Re: 1925 Franklin ?

Cars history documented back to day one. 1st and second family owners were mechanics. Oral history of leading up to runtime failure and subsequent storage. Owner wasn't interested in entire rebuild, just wanted an already completely restored car running.
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Old 11-26-2021, 09:50 PM   #28
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I went to the Franklin Museum in Tucson today. Very impressive. From 1904 to 1934. They have a 32 V12 Sport Phaeton. Some other makes there too: A 1930 Chevy, a 1931 Model A, and some 30's Packards. The building with the really old cars was closed because it was fumigated. They will re open that building next week. They found some bugs in the upholstery of one of the cars so that fumigated the whole building. This is a small museum with about 20 cars.
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Old 11-27-2021, 09:55 AM   #29
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Some photos:





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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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