Just Starting from the SoCal Desert

[BillCNC]

Fred K-OR,

I don't really have a cap on the budget, If it's nice, real nice, ... I'll pay it.

I've done a few restores in my day, and I've learned one thing, ... Let the other guy do 90% of the work because you will ALWAYS loose money and a lot of it. So my goal is to find one that has been restored already, but restored properly. If I have to do some of the smaller piddly stuff, I'm fine with that.

V8COOPMAN;

I have made a note to ask the owner about the numbers not matching. I dought he'll let me lift the body, but he better have some pictures of the number on the frame that were taken during the rebuild process.

Car dealers are not an issue if you know how to play with them, ... I used to wholesale used cars to used car dealers, ... so yeah, ... I know how to play their games, ... all of them. You either have to play the games far better than they do, or you go BK reaal quick.

Regards
Bill

[California Travieso]

Bill,

I just wanted point out that the San Bernardino Swap Meet is SEPTEMBER 24th. In years past, it was two days but I'm not sure about this year.

Also a group from the Paradise Valley Model A Club (San Bernardino) will be attending the Hesperia Days Parade September 16. I don't know how they make it up the Cajon Pass going up to the High Desert, or down it with mechanical brakes for that matter. A lot of the guys have touring motors and hydraulic brakes so I guess it's not too bad.

David Serrano

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by BillCNC

Hello Gentleman,

Looks like I have an appointment to view the 29 Coupe this Friday morning. I'm starting a list of questions to ask and critical points to look over.

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/32000887#

Anyone wanna help, … just post the things YOU yourself would ask or look for if you were the one looking to buy.

I'm also looking to make a hit list to try to bring the price down.

Regards
Bill

I would pass on that car. For what I see it is way over priced, maybe by a factor of two. It looks like it was put together by someone that doesn’t know Model A’s and what you can see makes me wonder what else is questionable. I enjoy stock, properly restored cars with maybe a few minor modifications and this is far from one. That is not to say some of the changes might be appealing to someone (even me), I just don’t like most of them. If you later try to sell the car you will find many of the changes don’t appeal to the average Model A collector and will make it hard to sell. I noted the following:

The color is not stock, plus I don’t like it
I don’t like step plates
The 16-inch wheels are not stock but probably “ok” for driver
I don’t like white walls
Does the trailer come with it? Probably fiberglass
Are the fenders fiberglass?
Horn shouldn’t be chromed
Radiator shell and headlights shouldn’t be chrome (should be nickel)
Front license plate should be mounted on headlight bar
It has a Model B intake manifold, functional but not original
I don’t like alternators (but respect those that do)
Left engine pan is missing, probably to clear later truck steering box
If the fan is original it should be replaced with aluminum repro for safety
It has the wrong water outlet on the head causing a bend in the hose
It looks like later truck steering (which at my age is good)
Wrong upholstery plus I don’t like it
Where did they get their “average price”, I bet it ignores body type
They say it has a “gear splitter”. Good for touring if it is a Mitchel
It has “float a motor” engine mounts, which I don’t like
Air/oil filters are not correct for a restoration but may be ok for a touring car
Ask them to show you the title and where that number appears on the car

In summary, some of my comments are minor and picky based on what I like. Others may find these changes appealing. My main concerns would be that the serial number (VIN) doesn’t match the title, it is not a correct Ford color and has incorrect upholstery. These would be expensive to change and make it hard to sell. For what I see it is way overpriced.

Charlie Stephens

[700rpm]

The Tudor is a better car and buy, judging from the pix. Don't buy the first one you see, and don't buy a nice paint job. If you can, take someone who is really knowledgeable about Model A's with you.

Here are the questions I try to answer when looking at a car: Does it have a spare tire carrier? Are the fenders metal? If "rebuilt," who built the engine? Does it have a working overdrive? Does it have original style shocks and links? What kind of wiper motor does it have? Does the dashlight work? Does it have an original horn and ignition switch? Was the upholstery done correctly? Are there any original tools included? 6v or 12v? Safety glass all around? What is the condition of the tires?

All these things and more can significantly affect the value and price of a car by thousands of dollars. There are many other things to check depending on the body style.

I also take a tarp, a small mirror, a small flashlight, a magnet and a soft cotton cloth. I use the tarp to lay or crouch on to see the underside, and the mirror and flashlight to see into crannies. I use the magnet on sheet metal to detect bondo areas. I run the cloth over the sheet metal with an open palm (you can feel irregularities in the surface much better this way).

I agree with Charlie's assessment. That coupe shows too many indications of work by someone who knew very little about Model A's. It is no way a restoration.

[Chris Haynes]

Here is a list of COMPLETED sales on eBay so you can see what cars are selling for. That coupe is WAY OVERPRICED.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks...dmd=1&_ipg=100

[[email protected]]

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I think 1930 was the best year for Model A Fords. Don't go it alone, find somebody very knowledgeable to help you. Model A people are eager to help. Don't get in a hurry. Make sure the car is painted a correct color combination. Do a compression test on each cylinder. Make sure that the tires are like new because they are costly. I recommend a new replacement radiator for trouble free driving. Shocks are expensive to repair or replace. Many times they don't have shocks and you might not realize it. There are so many things that you need to know about that I recommend that you contact the president of a local model A Ford club for guidance. Don't be discouraged, you will love owning and driving a Model A.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldcars]

Here is one for sale in L.A. co. https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sg...242169538.html Also there is a Model A swap meet this Sunday at the Rancho San Antonio Boys home, 21000 Plummer St., Chatsworth, CA. There are usually a few Model A's for sale there.

[Charlie Stephens]

Bill,

You should narrow down what you really want. It is terrible to get into a project only to decide that you really wanted a different body style. Worse than deciding you painted the car the wrong color. Are you in a local club that holds events? The best place to go to decide (where they have one of everything) is the Model A Ford Pancake Breakfast in Orange County (unfortunately it is not until April). Someone else posted about a swap meet this weekend (Post #27), which I will probably attend if my modern car is not still in the shop. If I make it I will bring my camera and post anything that might interest you. You say a coupe or a sedan and the year doesn’t matter. To me there is a big difference in the years. My preference is the ’30-31 body/fender lines. The ’28-29’s have more of a Model T appearance with their bodylines and the ’30-31’s have smoother bodylines like a ‘32, which has even smoother lines. Having said that, some people prefer the ’28-’29 because they look more “antique”. You said sedan but didn’t specify the number of doors or windows. The ’28-’31 Tudor Sedans are all steel bodies. All of the ’28-’31 4 door sedans except the late ’31 (called the slant window because of the slant on the windshield) have a LOT OF WOOD. They are sort of a wood structure with sheet metal attached. If the wood needs to be replaced it can become VERY EXPENSIVE very quick. The best indication of a problem with the wood is the fit of the doors. The only 4-door sedan I would want is a ’31 slant window (the early ‘31’s had a straight window). The ’28-’31 coupes all have the same small amount of wood so that is not a deciding factor for a coupe. You might want to check out http://www.mafca.com/gallery.html

Be careful about cosmetic restorations, good paint and brightwork but unreliable/dangerous mechanicals.


Charlie Stephens

[BillCNC]

Hello All,

Well, it's been a busy weekend so far. On Friday at 10 am my brother in-law and I went down to West Coast Corvette's to look at the 29 coupe with the trailer. We looked the car over and talked with the owner about it and when asked about the price, he said talk with the dealer, so that right there means it's a consignment deal, … a useless middleman to feed. The car does have a few issues with incorrect screws and some not hitting anything and fender nuts that I had to tighten up by hand while I was under the car so I mentioned it to the owner and it seemed like that went over like a lead balloon. The owner said he has owned the car for a couple of months and then proceeded to tell us about some of the mods that were made for better drivability, new parts that were added but when asked for all the receipts, he said the previous owner kept the trophies and receipts. Now the trophies I can understand, the receipts, … What would the purpose for keeping the receipts? So I told him, ... no offence, but with out the recipts, it's nothing but smoke.

I never drove the car because as I was idling, … the dealer wouldn't even budge off his price so I sensed there was no need to waste any more time so I shook both of their hands and said, … Thank you for your time anyhow and left.

From there I went an looked at Tom's car out in the city of La Verne. Boy, that was a fantastic decision. My brother in-law and I gained a wealth of knowledge from Tom in the short time we were there. Tom let us poke and prod at his 28 Blue Coupe and she looks like a car I'm going to put on the possibility list to revisit when I make my final decision. Tom even let this Model A virgin behind the wheel, … Whoo-Hoo, what fun I had. THANK YOU Tom !!!!

On Saturday, I looked at a Red and Black 31 Tudor that has been sitting in a garage for a few years. The car was professionally restored from the frame with pictures proving that. Now the shoe drop, … there is DMV train wreck that comes with it. This car is one that I'm going to have to see again tomorrow as the battery was dead (sellers, … charge them up for gosh sake's). The best thing about this one is it's only about 1.5 miles from me so going back and forth on this is not an issue as I pass by the neighborhood almost daily.

The DMV Issues, ..,

2007 North Carolina Title

2011 Nevada Plates on the car, … No Title and has been in California for 6 YEARS and never registered.

Owner is dead and the title does not have the wife on it.

Possibility of having to register it in Nevada THEN California.

Possibility of having to remove the body so Nevada AND California can see the frame number.

Assigned VIN on engine side of the right firewall that is on the NC title.

Owner (wife) flat out REFUSES to deal with anything DMV. I told her to pay someone to deal with it otherwise she's going to take a bath and she still refuses and said that she will either just not sell or will just drop the price. The classified add say's $15,000 so this might be worth finding out what the Nevada and California DMV's want and go from there.

Funny thing is she also has a 29 Chevy with equally disastrous DMV issues.

Next up, … another local car, a 30 Cabriolet I'll see if I can look at that one tomorrow.

Regards
Bill

[Railcarmover]

Avoid the car dealers,they are over priced by their commission. check with the local model a club,they get contacted all the time by folks wishing to settle estates...not only get the car you can get the stash of parts with the car and help a family move on after a loss..

[BillCNC]

Hello Railcarmover,

At this point, I'll look at everything I can get my hands on, even the junkers and the ones sitting on a dealer lot. I see it like this, the more I can see the more I can learn. This can only help me in every possible way if I'm diving into this hobby and there is no down side to it what so ever. The more I see, the more I recognize quality work from a butchers work or incorrect parts and most of all, what one should really look and drive like.

I'm not afraid to deal with a dealer, … far from it, I used to wholesale used cars to used car dealers. I know how they think and I know when I'm barking up the wrong tree. Also, if I decide to pick a car with serious DMV issues, I can have the guy's I used to wholesale with run a KSR on the car and deal with the DMV issues, they've seen them all.

As for the car at the dealer, If I really want that car, I'll need to go look at it once more and hand the OWNER a note with my number on it explaining to him to dump the consignment and deal directly with me as he is more apt to get closer to the price he wants and closer to what I want to pay, … we basically need to starve the dealer out of the deal.


Regards
Bill

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Avoid the car dealers,they are over priced by their commission. check with the local model a club,they get contacted all the time by folks wishing to settle estates...not only get the car you can get the stash of parts with the car and help a family move on after a loss..

[Dick M]

Welcome to the Barn.
The Coupe looks nice. The paint is not a stock color combination. It will be difficult to sell as most Model Aer's want a stock color combination. I do not recall the last time I saw any coupe go for $22,000.
The Tudor is a very nice looking car. The paint combination appears to be stock. The difference in price is also attractive. $15,000 is on the high side for a Tudor, however, the car looks to be in very good condition. If the mechanicals check out it is a fair price. "Just My Opinion"
Good Luck!

[dmdeaton]

Me and the wife just got the bug a month ago and looking and learning just like you. Go look at all you can. I shied away from looking at one because of the pics in the ad and the first phone conversation. Needless to say this is the one I think we are settling on.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by BillCNC

Hello All,

Well, it's been a busy weekend so far. On Friday at 10 am my brother in-law and I went down to West Coast Corvette's to look at the 29 coupe with the trailer. We looked the car over and talked with the owner about it and when asked about the price, he said talk with the dealer, so that right there means it's a consignment deal, … a useless middleman to feed. The car does have a few issues with incorrect screws and some not hitting anything and fender nuts that I had to tighten up by hand while I was under the car so I mentioned it to the owner and it seemed like that went over like a lead balloon. The owner said he has owned the car for a couple of months and then proceeded to tell us about some of the mods that were made for better drivability, new parts that were added but when asked for all the receipts, he said the previous owner kept the trophies and receipts. Now the trophies I can understand, the receipts, … What would the purpose for keeping the receipts? So I told him, ... no offence, but with out the recipts, it's nothing but smoke.

I never drove the car because as I was idling, … the dealer wouldn't even budge off his price so I sensed there was no need to waste any more time so I shook both of their hands and said, … Thank you for your time anyhow and left.

From there I went an looked at Tom's car out in the city of La Verne. Boy, that was a fantastic decision. My brother in-law and I gained a wealth of knowledge from Tom in the short time we were there. Tom let us poke and prod at his 28 Blue Coupe and she looks like a car I'm going to put on the possibility list to revisit when I make my final decision. Tom even let this Model A virgin behind the wheel, … Whoo-Hoo, what fun I had. THANK YOU Tom !!!!

On Saturday, I looked at a Red and Black 31 Tudor that has been sitting in a garage for a few years. The car was professionally restored from the frame with pictures proving that. Now the shoe drop, … there is DMV train wreck that comes with it. This car is one that I'm going to have to see again tomorrow as the battery was dead (sellers, … charge them up for gosh sake's). The best thing about this one is it's only about 1.5 miles from me so going back and forth on this is not an issue as I pass by the neighborhood almost daily.

The DMV Issues, ..,

2007 North Carolina Title

2011 Nevada Plates on the car, … No Title and has been in California for 6 YEARS and never registered.

Owner is dead and the title does not have the wife on it.

Possibility of having to register it in Nevada THEN California.

Possibility of having to remove the body so Nevada AND California can see the frame number.

Assigned VIN on engine side of the right firewall that is on the NC title.

Owner (wife) flat out REFUSES to deal with anything DMV. I told her to pay someone to deal with it otherwise she's going to take a bath and she still refuses and said that she will either just not sell or will just drop the price. The classified add say's $15,000 so this might be worth finding out what the Nevada and California DMV's want and go from there.

Funny thing is she also has a 29 Chevy with equally disastrous DMV issues.

Next up, … another local car, a 30 Cabriolet I'll see if I can look at that one tomorrow.

Regards
Bill

When I sold my '57 Thunderbird I kept the receipts. I was glad to show them to the new owner but I kept them. As with most collector cars I probably lost money or at best broke even. If a tax person looked at what I paid for the car and what I sold it for I would need the receipts to prove I didn't make a profit. You may not have a problem with the title. Check with the DMV but to the best of my knowledge the executer of the estate (which may even have been the wife) is authorized to sign documents in the name of the deceased. Since there is an assigned VIN from NC that matches the title with a plate from NC the California DMV might not require you to remove the body to see the number on the frame. I don't know the details but I think there is a section in the vehicle code that exempts old cars from late registration penalties. Ask the DMV, if don't like their answer (they always want to collect more money) post the question here and maybe someone knows more information. I also live in the desert, all of Southern California is a desert. There is a local event coming up in about a month that you might be interested in attending, check your PM's. You might want to add your email to your profile.

Charlie Stephens

[BillCNC]

Hi Dick,

Yes it is, $22K is high, but it does have a Mitchell A Overdrive gear splitter, ... verified as I looked, and they say is also has a Mitchell A Synchronized transmission which I cannot verify as I did not test drive the car and it doesn't list it in the description.

This is were the pack comes in making $22K closer than not. I think worth closer to $20 than $22. BTW, … the motor was cold and he reached in through the door and started her right up and she idles very smooth and is very quiet so it is on the list of possibilities. I do have to say, the car did surprise me, and aside from a few small issues, it's a solid car and whom ever did the work knows how to work on cars, maybe not A's but the work was done right. Also, … the Owner said it comes with a California car cover, … the $500 premium one and the REAL color of the car is, Champagne, not Gold. And if it is an issue, lightly scuff the clear coat and re-squirt the Champagne with a translucent color like a Kandy, … should be quite interesting to say the least.

Description:

Exterior Color: Gold/Dark Maroon Fenders
Interior: Tan
Engine: 4 Cylinder
Transmission: Manual with Overdrive Gear Splitter Transmission

This is a fully restored Briggs Bodied Model A Coupe. It is an all steel body including the fenders. The 40 Horsepower L - Head 4 cylinder engine was professionally rebuilt. The Mitchell Overdrive Gear Splitter and clutch are new. The brake system was overhauled including new brakes & drums. www.jalopyjournal.netThe 16 inch whitewall firestone tires are also new.

A few updates were added to make this Model A very driveable. The electrical system has been converted to a negative ground 12 volt system with an alternator. An Electric Windshield wiper has been installed. Turn Signals have been added. An oil filter system has been added to the engine and an " Arooga" horn completes the car.

The car comes with a matching Superior Glass Works trailer so the next owner is set to participate in Antique car caravans.

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by BillCNC

Hello Railcarmover,

At this point, I'll look at everything I can get my hands on, even the junkers and the ones sitting on a dealer lot. I see it like this, the more I can see the more I can learn. This can only help me in every possible way if I'm diving into this hobby and there is no down side to it what so ever. The more I see, the more I recognize quality work from a butchers work or incorrect parts and most of all, what one should really look and drive like.

I'm not afraid to deal with a dealer, … far from it, I used to wholesale used cars to used car dealers. I know how they think and I know when I'm barking up the wrong tree. Also, if I decide to pick a car with serious DMV issues, I can have the guy's I used to wholesale with run a KSR on the car and deal with the DMV issues, they've seen them all.

As for the car at the dealer, If I really want that car, I'll need to go look at it once more and hand the OWNER a note with my number on it explaining to him to dump the consignment and deal directly with me as he is more apt to get closer to the price he wants and closer to what I want to pay, … we basically need to starve the dealer out of the deal.


Regards
Bill

Go gettem Bill, the market for restored cars is all over the place...against that coupe your looking at I saw a show quality freshly restored 29 roadster go for 15k..you sound savvy,get a handle on the market and good hunting..

[BillCNC]

I will look at open cars, but I'm not sure I'll want one. The thought of having to buy new tops, the sound of the wind and the cold wet weather is not to appealing with me. But then again, … maybe I just need to get behind the wheel of one, who knows, I might change my mind. One issue we have up here in the Desert, … We get about 2 weeks of spring and about 2 weeks of fall weather. Otherwise, it's Hot in the summer and cold in the winter.

Regards
Bill

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by BillCNC

Hi Dick,

Yes it is, $22K is high, but it does have a Mitchell A Overdrive gear splitter, ... verified as I looked, and they say is also has a Mitchell A Synchronized transmission which I cannot verify as I did not test drive the car and it doesn't list it in the description.

This is were the pack comes in making $22K closer than not. I think worth closer to $20 than $22. BTW, … the motor was cold and he reached in through the door and started her right up and she idles very smooth and is very quiet so it is on the list of possibilities. I do have to say, the car did surprise me, and aside from a few small issues, it's a solid car and whom ever did the work knows how to work on cars, maybe not A's but the work was done right. Also, … the Owner said it comes with a California car cover, … the $500 premium one and the REAL color of the car is, Champagne, not Gold. And if it is an issue, lightly scuff the clear coat and re-squirt the Champagne with a translucent color like a Kandy, … should be quite interesting to say the least.

Description:

Exterior Color: Gold/Dark Maroon Fenders
Interior: Tan
Engine: 4 Cylinder
Transmission: Manual with Overdrive Gear Splitter Transmission

This is a fully restored Briggs Bodied Model A Coupe. It is an all steel body including the fenders. The 40 Horsepower L - Head 4 cylinder engine was professionally rebuilt. The Mitchell Overdrive Gear Splitter and clutch are new. The brake system was overhauled including new brakes & drums. www.jalopyjournal.netThe 16 inch whitewall firestone tires are also new.

A few updates were added to make this Model A very driveable. The electrical system has been converted to a negative ground 12 volt system with an alternator. An Electric Windshield wiper has been installed. Turn Signals have been added. An oil filter system has been added to the engine and an " Arooga" horn completes the car.

The car comes with a matching Superior Glass Works trailer so the next owner is set to participate in Antique car caravans.

When they say the engine was "professionally rebuilt" be sure to check the name of the professional. Some "professionals have and deserve a very bad reputation.

Charlie Stephens

[BillCNC]

Hey Guy's

Today I looked at another 30 Coupe and it was pretty nice. But one thing had me concerned. When I kneel down at the rear tires (both sides) and grab a wheel and rock the car from side to side, I hear clunking It sound like it's coming from the center of the rear end, or that's where the sound seemed to travel from. I'm not 100% positive it came from the center as I was on the outside rocking the car.

Any clues as to what it could be?

BTW, … I don't own a car yet, … But I did pick up the Mechanic Handbook Vol. 1 by Les Andrews, … I guess now I'm Officially financially committed.

Regards
Bill

[Michael M]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Vermin, my Avatar car is for sale, along with 2 HUGE tool chests full of tools, all my heavy equipment, spares, etc. $22,000.00 CASH for the WHOLE KABOODLE !
Bill W.

I don't know much about geography, but Vermin would be worth looking at if Fresno is not too far for you. Any car owned and cared for by Bill would be a quality buy. Plus, he's including a lot of extras. And he can share his encyclopedic memory and great stories!