O/T Need to add water to a sealed battery.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I need to add some water to a fairly new 12v battery that was inadvertently turned onto its side and some liquid leaked out the vent that is moulded into the top. Since the top is sealed, I am trying to determine my course of action and need some 'brain-power' from the likes of folks here as to whether I am thinking this thru correctly.

As mentioned, a 6 month old 12v battery was turned-over briefly (-by accident) which caused some of the acid to leak onto the floor. The battery was uprighted fairly quickly however some acid did leak out. Upon inspecting the battery, Rural King's battery manufacturer has no intentions of any consumer removing the top of this battery. While I have no idea how much acid escaped, I do feel it likely needs to have one (or more) cells have their liquid replenished to avoid burning up a cell due to lack of acid. Unfortunately the case is black plastic and using a light to see thru the case is not an option.

So after pondering on this for a few days, I think my plan is to add water back into the battery by placing the battery down inside a small Rubbermaid trash can and pour water around the battery until the level rises sufficiently where the water can enter the vent and hopefully replenish the lost acid.
Sooo, am I correct that the battery acid will be heavier than the water which should cause the acid to stay submerged inside of the cell and not float out as the water level is increased?

Does anyone see something I am not thinking about? I am thinking the water level should only rise to the top of the case. If water does rise high enough where the two posts are submerged in (-or touching) the water surrounding the battery, is this going to cause any unexpected 'fireworks' or create a short to the battery?? Based on thinking about the battery tester I have where the charged battery causes the little ball to float (-but not a dead battery), am I correct that the acid is only heavier than water when it is sufficiently charged. If so, discharging the battery in an effort to eliminate 'fireworks' may not be an option if submerging the battery would cause the acid to float away. Based on the design of the case, I am unsure if a syringe would work at refilling thru the vent.

Again, I just want to replenish the missing acid with water in one or more cells but not overfill or cause any unnecessary excitement in that process. Thoughts??

[Big hammer]

I took a battery back to napa for warranty, the salesman used his pocket screwdriver and popped the sealed top off. He complained that it was overfilled? and who did this, no one I said, I didn’t know you could pop the top off. The top was one piece from side to side and a different color then the case or top

[ronn]

Brent, I would pass on the battery and just attempt to replace it where it was bought.


I am sure the battery may be used, but how good will it now be and for how long?

[McMimmcs]

You might replace water but what about the lost acid. I would also return it to the retailer and ask for assistance. JMO. Wayne

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by McMimmcs

You might replace water but what about the lost acid. I would also return it to the retailer and ask for assistance. JMO. Wayne

What do I need to tell these people? How fishy does this sound? "I am bringing this battery back for warranty because I think the acid level is low!" The store clerk responds "Mr. Terry, I don't believe the level is low." So how do I present this where I can actually get them to warranty this thing (ethically) with the least amount of hassle??

[trulyvintage]

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Take the battery back.
Tell them it won’t hold a charge.
They should be able to determine why.


Jim

[ronn]

truly has said it best- being honest and how can you help me with my problem?


Brent, with your charm, there will only be smiles and kindness!

[Gene F]

Used to be you could peel the label back, and still open them. The pop the top off thing mentioned above sounds interesting, but I wonder about the posts... Adding water to me is a no-no. If ya go to NAPA they can order you a small box with a baggie of acid in it. If ya put water in it to any degree it's over.

[eagle]

Drill an 1/8" hole over each cell, use a capilliary tube to refill using battery acid, then put a stainless steel screw in each hole. It will void the warranty, but it really isn't ethical in my mind to return a battery under warranty that you knowingly caused a potential problem with.

[GPierce]

DISTILLED water is an insulator. It is the dissolved solids in water that conducts electrity.

[Kurt in NJ]

I just looked at the napa legend in my car, it has screw caps, some of the modern batteries look like sealed but the whole vent unit will pop off, have you poked around some to see if the top comes off as assembly?
If you were to get it to suck in fluid there would be no way to know which cell it would go into—- probably the closest cell would get it all till it overflowed—- then you would have the problem of corrosion when it charges

[daveymc29]

Honest often pays dividends not expected. Would you want a customer to be dishonest with you? Probably not. I'd give the truth a try and chalk up whatever I learned from this experience to Knowledge gained at a price. Then I'd try geting the case apart and refill the low cell(s) with battery acid and reinstal the battery cover.

jmho.

[alexiskai]

I’m confused- isn’t it a standard consumer expectation that sealed lead acid batteries can be turned on their side without leaking? This product seems defective.

[rotorwrench]

The sealed batteries are valve regulated but they should hold their mud. I have an old skyjack lift that has the batteries turned up on end and they don't leak. I'd turn it in for full warranty. An AGM battery has the electrolyte in the glass mat and it should stay in the mat. Your other option is to use it as is until it dies. If it dies under warranty then it might be replaced unless they pro rate the warranty.

A battery that is fully charged will have the correct specific gravity. As the battery discharges, most of the acid absorbs into the lead plate matrix so the electrolyte is reduced to a state where it is more like water than acid. The full SG is 1.280 and dead SG is 1.120. The specific gravity of water is 1.0 @ 4 degrees C so there is still a little bit of sulfur in it.

[nkaminar]

Weigh your battery and compare that weight to a new one. That will give you some indication of how much acid was spilled. Weigh a few new batteries to give you a range of weights and use the average.

I would be inclined to just use the battery if the loss is not excessive.

Some photos would help identify if it is the kind where the caps can be pried off. Plus some brand and model information.

[jack backer]

If it comes down to ethics just purchasing a ‘Rural King’ battery places it in doubt. Humor aside it is made by Exide.. only two battery manufacturers in the US, Exide and Johnson Controls. Given the price of the RK it’s not serviceable, just vented.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by daveymc29

Honest often pays dividends not expected. Would you want a customer to be dishonest with you? Probably not. I'd give the truth a try and chalk up whatever I learned from this experience to Knowledge gained at a price. Then I'd try geting the case apart and refill the low cell(s) with battery acid and reinstal the battery cover.

jmho.

Originally Posted by jack backer

If it comes down to ethics just purchasing a ‘Rural King’ battery places it in doubt. Humor aside it is made by Exide.. only two battery manufacturers in the US, Exide and Johnson Controls. Given the price of the RK it’s not serviceable, just vented.

Isn't it funny how this thread turned from something about asking for thoughts on how I can refill this thing, ...to a discussion about ethics. Jack is correct in that when a lower-end battery is purchased, the expectations should be less. Ironically, the RK battery does have a better warranty (24 month free replacement & 60 month prorated) than most of the local big box auto parts stores.

Ironically, the warranty calls for replacement if it "malfunctions", and as Colin pointed out, a sealed battery really should not leak acid if we are to go by the implication of the name. What is the definition of 'sealed'? Maybe I ask the store clerk if this is covered and go from there? Or, maybe it is better for me to go back to my original question and ask for guidance or thoughts on how to replenish the water in the cells. For the immediate, that one is the direction I wish to pursue.

[Benson]

Actually THERE ARE MORE THAN Two battery companies:

Who Makes NAPA Legend Premium Batteries?

East Penn Manufacturing makes NAPA Legend premium batteries. Their 70+ years of experience helps them maintain their commitment to excellence with this high-performing battery. It features 20x vibration resistance, a spill-proof design, double cycle life, and faster recharging.

These batteries are supported by the AAA and used by professionals for their high-performance capabilities. It is a high-powered, maintenance-free vehicle battery that will last a long time.

Note Deka brand batteries are a brand NAME of East PENN MANUFACURING.

East Penn main plant is in Berks County, PA with Distribution in two places in Iowa.

[rotorwrench]

Read up on AGM batteries. They should not have free liquid electrolyte in them to the point it could leak out. The cell is designed to hold the electrolyte in the glass mat. The valve is designed to bleed off hydrogen if the battery is taxed on overcharge and the pressure gets too high inside the case. If you open the cells to the atmosphere then the battery will dehydrate out after an unknown period of time. It will also allow free discharge of hydrogen. A person would be, in effect, turning the battery into a wet cell battery. Warranty would likely be voided as well.

If a person wants to take this action then it likely won't hurt anything but the warranty. Most counter people don't care about the battery brought in with problems. They might test it or not. Some might be pickier than others so there is an element of risk. If you aren't concerned about that then find some small plugs to fit any holes you drill into the battery.

[Badpuppy]

SLA batteries should not leak. That's why they are allowed to be shipped whereas standard LA batteries are not. Take it back under warranty.

[rich40701]

Get a OPTIMA battery next time, Snyders sells a hold down shaped to fit and the battery comes with a 36 month warranty. I have one in my truck originally bought for a TR8 and it is 6 years old going strong.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by rich40701

Get a OPTIMA battery next time, Snyders sells a hold down shaped to fit and the battery comes with a 36 month warranty. I have one in my truck originally bought for a TR8 and it is 6 years old going strong.

As a former Optima installer, I can unequivocally tell someone that Optimas are total junk since their manufacturing operation was moved to Mexico.

[Ayers1]

Here's an idea, I don't know how the vent is exposed but could you use a turkey injector and squirt water back through the vent? The injector is just an oversized needle for spices to be injected in the meat before baking.

[J Franklin]

Just take it back when it fails if it is still in warrantee.

[marc silva]

They aren’t sealed. Think about it. It still vents that’s where it leaked out. They have it figured out that it will take 4to 5 years for the water to go below the plates and bingo you need a new battery. Fill it back up and go. I have done that many times to my batteries and I can typically get 7 years out of them. I also keep them on maintainers. The one in my boat is 9 years old and works like a champ. Just sayin’

[marc silva]

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Originally Posted by Ayers1

Here's an idea, I don't know how the vent is exposed but could you use a turkey injector and squirt water back through the vent? The injector is just an oversized needle for spices to be injected in the meat before baking.

I use interstate batteries and the caps are not glued on. The Delco ones aren’t either. You can pop them off you just need to figure out the best spot to pry on, and I bet even if they were glued on it’s not very good.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Ayers1

Here's an idea, I don't know how the vent is exposed but could you use a turkey injector and squirt water back through the vent? The injector is just an oversized needle for spices to be injected in the meat before baking.

We tried that but could not tell how much was going in vs. how much was running back out. The vent is not a straight shot from side to side. Filling a garbage can with water seemed to be the best way. Not sure how much actually went inside but we stopped adding water to the can when the air bubbles stopped.



With that said, because I was still unsure and just didn't want an issue later, I decided to take it back to the Rural King store to have them check it and to ask if they could show me the trick to popping the top off so we could verify the acid level. The asst. store manager was helpful when I brought it to the counter and told me they have no way to test it or check it. I told him what had happened and asked if he could assist me in removing the top even if they couldn't test it. I told him that I would accept any liability. His words were he was sorry but they did not have anyone to do that. He also said he was sorry that he could not be any more help. I explained it wasn't his fault and the problem was caused by us. I told him I was very appreciative and thanked him for at least trying. We were about to leave when he said let me check on something. He then said we want you as a customer and he radioed a worker to bring up a new replacement battery. He insisted that they would replace it because it was 7 months old. I tried to pay and this battery carries a 12 month free replacement and is 60 month prorated after that. Their warranty is better than the other retailers in my town, -and definitely their customer service is better, so instead of paying I am advertising for them that they want to be very accommodating, and they must feel strongly about their quality to offer that type of warranty.

So, I will never know whether submerging it actually completely refilled it or not, and I probably should have taken the chance, but it all worked out in the end.

[Ayers1]

Awesome! Glad you got it worked out! I assume you're a steady customer there? I have always said it pays to shop at the same store and get to be known there. I have gotten a few breaks through the years by doing that instead of chasing prices all over town.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Ayers1

Awesome! Glad you got it worked out! I assume you're a steady customer there? I have always said it pays to shop at the same store and get to be known there. I have gotten a few breaks through the years by doing that instead of chasing prices all over town.

Actually, RK is fairly new to our area, and people in our area are still mesmerized how it is like a Tractor Supply store on steroids in a WalMart building.

I have purchased about half a dozen batteries over the last 3 years or so, -so since they are all still functioning, I don't really have a good baseline as to their quality. I do know their 6 volt Group 1 battery that fits the Model-A is like $70.00, where as O'Reilly, NAPA, and AutoZone are all over $100 for their Group 1 battery. The RK battery is a 1 year free replacement and then prorated for the next year whereas the others are 90 day free replacement and then a 1 year prorated. My thought is to pay less for the same size battery and get a longer warranty is kind of a no brainer.

[Badpuppy]

Apparently the mgr realized the battery should not have leaked in the first place and rightly replaced it under warranty.

[Ivan in southeast va.]

I would replace it even if it has to come out of my pocket. Keep the one that turned over for yourself and use at a later date if you determine it's okay.

[duke36]

What is the Rural King battery number ? Many "sealed" top batteries, the tops come off if they are non AGM or other related types. Batteries in our area go upwards of $120 or more for longer lifers. RK's seem like a bargain. We see many sealed tops where charging circuits deplete the fluid and need to be refilled periodically with deionized or distilled water.
Glad the issue was resolved.

[Model "A" Fords]

There seems to be considerable experience with battery's here! Does anyone have an opinion on the Battery Central Mall original look alike for the Model A? Who makes them? I took a chance and ordered one thinking of judging. Has anyone had experience with one or even know if it actually resembles an original?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Ivan in southeast va.

I would replace it even if it has to come out of my pocket. Keep the one that turned over for yourself and use at a later date if you determine it's okay.

If this is directed at me suggesting what I should do, please go re-read the follow-up post above as they have already replaced it for me.

Originally Posted by duke36

What is the Rural King battery number ? Many "sealed" top batteries, the tops come off if they are non AGM or other related types. Batteries in our area go upwards of $120 or more for longer lifers. RK's seem like a bargain. We see many sealed tops where charging circuits deplete the fluid and need to be refilled periodically with deionized or distilled water.
Glad the issue was resolved.

.......................6 Volt

.......................12 Volt

Originally Posted by Model "A" Fords

There seems to be considerable experience with battery's here! Does anyone have an opinion on the Battery Central Mall original look alike for the Model A? Who makes them? I took a chance and ordered one thinking of judging. Has anyone had experience with one or even know if it actually resembles an original?

From a distance, to the unknowing they look similar. When compared to an original Ford-supplied battery, even Helen Keller can 'see' the differences. If you need one for fine-point and cannot find an original, using one that East Penn made a few years ago and modifying it will pass without deduction. Most of those will need to be rebuilt though as their longevity sucked.

[Model "A" Fords]

[/QUOTE]From Brent; If you need one for fine-point and cannot find an original, using one that East Penn made a few years ago and modifying it will pass without deduction. Most of those will need to be rebuilt though as their longevity sucked.

Thankyou for the information Brent. I guess the Battery on order will now be my spare and not for judging!
I do have one battery that is apparently an old reproduction and another one I understood was an original but they both look the same. They have vent caps that have the Ford logo sunk into them 1/8" and a 1" course thread. A copy of an original 1929 cap drawing notes the logo was proud 1/8" and has a larger thread diameter.
Were these changed or are mine both reproductions? The standards don't reference the caps. Is there some place to see the differences of the East Penn from the original?

[ronn]

see Brent- your charm does it every time!