The Ford Barn

Merc Cruzer · 10-29-2021, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

I agree with checking the total advance. I bought a sheet of timing tapes for various size pulleys from Jeg's or Summit. The strips are self-adhesive, so if you clean the circumference of the crankshaft pulley, they stick pretty well. They were black numbers on a white background, so they are easy to see. Just make sure that you align 2 Degrees BTDC with the "bump", and it's easy to read total advance with a dial-back timing light.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...AaAgAVEALw_wcB

Thank you

Gezer · 10-29-2021, 10:57 PM

My 49-51 shop manual calls out the Total Advance W.O.T. crankshaft Degrees is
17 min and 19 max. What does W.O.T. stand for??

tubman · 10-29-2021, 11:37 PM

W.O.T. = Wide Open Throttle.

Gezer · 10-30-2021, 09:56 AM

Thank you.
So, after setting the 2(or 4) degree initial B.T.C, Is there another setting to be made for W.O.T? If so, how is that done?

Sorry for the constant questions. Seems like one answer generates another question.

tubman · 10-30-2021, 04:20 PM

I'm not an expert on "Load-a-Matics", but I have run several that worked well. I do not believe that there is any adjustment that can be made to them, they either work, or they don't. I believe the 17-19 degree figure is just a parameter to check the performance; if it's in the range, the distributor is acceptable, if not, well, it needs services (probably a new factory advance unit). The other distributor types that are used can have their advance characteristics changed through the use of special bushings, springs, weights, and vacuum advance units). SBC units in particular have a ton of aftermarket support of this type of modification.

One thing I will mention, is that most people who work with these prefer a total advance in the low 20's (22-24 degrees). This is why the advance mechanism on SBC distributors needs to be limited, as they are usually around 36 degrees from the manufacturer.

Even though "Bubba" is no longer actively involved in the business, his web site is a wealth of information; he even has a section on "Loadamatics". Check it out : http://www.bubbasignition.com/home.html.

Correction : After verifying Bubba's web page, I see there is some adjustment on the spring posts in a "Loadamatic"; perhaps there is some adjusting instructions in one of the factory repair manuals available.

Tinker · 10-31-2021, 12:44 AM

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My thinking is you fine tune the engine vacuum with all that drawn vacuum. The carb, dizzy, wipers or the hole on the intake.

Good stuff Tubman. great info.

Think bubba says 28 degrees at full out is max. If my memory is correct.

CharlieNy would know.

Ol' Ron · 10-31-2021, 11:37 AM

Tuning the flathead was one of the issues Richard Kunc took on about 10 years ago. He developed the adjustable mechanical advance for the SBC distributor I sent him. He also developed the "Road rig", Which recorded the AF, Timing advance, engine rpm and vacuum under all road conditions. The results was a 4000 lb 53 ford HT getting 22 MPh
I drove the car and was impressed with it's acceloration, it was no slouch!!!
The engine was a 276 ci L-100, 8.5 CR flathead
After trying several different carbs he settled on the Edelbrock 500 carb.
When he picked me up st the airport, he pointed st the AF meter he had on the dash. On the interstate Hy back to his house the gauge stayed in the 15's @ 65/70 mph, droping into the hi 12's on acceloration

All this information was always posted here on the barn and was ignored by most. Richard was and is a dedicated engineer that ook thid project on to help those that wanted a better running engine. And here we are 10 years later trying to tune the darn thing. I understand why he left the Barn
Gramps

tubman · 10-31-2021, 12:55 PM

That's all well and good, but from everything I have seen in this thread, the O/P simply wants to know how to time his engine that is currently running a stock Ford "Load-a-Matic" distributor.

Chevrolet distributors and A/F meters don't enter into the equation and may even add to the confusion.

leon bee · 10-31-2021, 02:35 PM

^^Really. When I first came here to the ford barn my reading quickly led me to the conclusion that the Loadomatic was a completely non-viable POS that was not worth spending any time on. Wrong. I've got two of them working just fine.

Ol' Ron · 10-31-2021, 06:02 PM

There's nothing wrong with the load a matoc distributor and carb, they work very well on a stock engine.

rotorwrench · 11-01-2021, 09:20 AM

Adjusting a load-o-matic was generally only for application changes since the distributor design was used on different engine applications from the Big Lincoln V8s (both enbloc an OHV designs) and inline 6-cylinder engine variants plus the small Y-blocks. Different tension springs were available and some bend to adjust on spring tabs. There were also different design vacuum cans to pull against the spring tension. The flatheads were mostly all the same as long as we are talking the 239 or 255 V8s even though the 255 had a different carburetor. The Lincoln 337 was a lot different and required mechanical advance as well. With a 272 Y-block carb on there then there could be a difference since the Y-blocks needed more advance. This may have only been for the distributor settings but I can't confirm that without further research. A timing light is an easier way to see if the flathead is running within the range or not. As Ol'Ron mentions, the modified GM distributor with an adjustable vacuum can would be a much better choice for efficiency since it has a lot more range and is easier to adjust than the Holley LOM distributor. A person can use any carb combination they want with that set up.

demingboy · 11-01-2021, 09:52 AM

it looks to me like it has the petronix ignition in it as it uses the same coil and wires that were suggested to me. Does timing change with that set up?
Also I am in process of buying a merc engine and this post shows me that the stock merc oil pan will work in my 41.
So I am glad once again to view posts here

tubman · 11-01-2021, 10:54 AM

The timing for the engine does not change, but the timing itself can, because the Pertronix will probably provide a longer dwell period, that will effectively advance when the spark actually occurs. The engine should be re-timed (to stock specs) after any change in the ignition. This became painfully obvious to me after I installed one in a SBC powered boat I had years ago. (I generally don't like aftermarket electronic ignitions, but the distributor was so difficult to get at that I thought I'd try one.) After installation, I tried to start the engine and it backfired once and stopped dead. Because it was in a boat in the water, the backfire caused the engine to draw water into the engine which hydro-locked it. After re-timing it, it started right up but had a bad miss. The hydro-locking had caused one of my fancy roller rockers to break right off. Ever try to find ONE matching roller rocker? The engine ran great thereafter with 1 stamped steel Chevrolet rocker and 15 fancy aluminum roller rockers (I was going to change it at some later date, but....).

10-29-2021, 11:37 PM	#23
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,315	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead W.O.T. = Wide Open Throttle.

10-30-2021, 09:56 AM	#24
Gezer Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 98	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead Thank you. So, after setting the 2(or 4) degree initial B.T.C, Is there another setting to be made for W.O.T? If so, how is that done? Sorry for the constant questions. Seems like one answer generates another question.

10-30-2021, 04:20 PM	#25
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,315	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead I'm not an expert on "Load-a-Matics", but I have run several that worked well. I do not believe that there is any adjustment that can be made to them, they either work, or they don't. I believe the 17-19 degree figure is just a parameter to check the performance; if it's in the range, the distributor is acceptable, if not, well, it needs services (probably a new factory advance unit). The other distributor types that are used can have their advance characteristics changed through the use of special bushings, springs, weights, and vacuum advance units). SBC units in particular have a ton of aftermarket support of this type of modification. One thing I will mention, is that most people who work with these prefer a total advance in the low 20's (22-24 degrees). This is why the advance mechanism on SBC distributors needs to be limited, as they are usually around 36 degrees from the manufacturer. Even though "Bubba" is no longer actively involved in the business, his web site is a wealth of information; he even has a section on "Loadamatics". Check it out : http://www.bubbasignition.com/home.html. Correction : After verifying Bubba's web page, I see there is some adjustment on the spring posts in a "Loadamatic"; perhaps there is some adjusting instructions in one of the factory repair manuals available. Last edited by tubman; 10-30-2021 at 04:35 PM.

10-31-2021, 12:44 AM	#26
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) My thinking is you fine tune the engine vacuum with all that drawn vacuum. The carb, dizzy, wipers or the hole on the intake. Good stuff Tubman. great info. Think bubba says 28 degrees at full out is max. If my memory is correct. CharlieNy would know.

10-31-2021, 11:37 AM	#27
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead Tuning the flathead was one of the issues Richard Kunc took on about 10 years ago. He developed the adjustable mechanical advance for the SBC distributor I sent him. He also developed the "Road rig", Which recorded the AF, Timing advance, engine rpm and vacuum under all road conditions. The results was a 4000 lb 53 ford HT getting 22 MPh I drove the car and was impressed with it's acceloration, it was no slouch!!! The engine was a 276 ci L-100, 8.5 CR flathead After trying several different carbs he settled on the Edelbrock 500 carb. When he picked me up st the airport, he pointed st the AF meter he had on the dash. On the interstate Hy back to his house the gauge stayed in the 15's @ 65/70 mph, droping into the hi 12's on acceloration All this information was always posted here on the barn and was ignored by most. Richard was and is a dedicated engineer that ook thid project on to help those that wanted a better running engine. And here we are 10 years later trying to tune the darn thing. I understand why he left the Barn Gramps

10-31-2021, 12:55 PM	#28
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,315	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead That's all well and good, but from everything I have seen in this thread, the O/P simply wants to know how to time his engine that is currently running a stock Ford "Load-a-Matic" distributor. Chevrolet distributors and A/F meters don't enter into the equation and may even add to the confusion.

10-31-2021, 02:35 PM	#29
leon bee Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Arkansas Posts: 611	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead ^^Really. When I first came here to the ford barn my reading quickly led me to the conclusion that the Loadomatic was a completely non-viable POS that was not worth spending any time on. Wrong. I've got two of them working just fine.

10-31-2021, 06:02 PM	#30
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead There's nothing wrong with the load a matoc distributor and carb, they work very well on a stock engine.

11-01-2021, 09:20 AM	#31
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead Adjusting a load-o-matic was generally only for application changes since the distributor design was used on different engine applications from the Big Lincoln V8s (both enbloc an OHV designs) and inline 6-cylinder engine variants plus the small Y-blocks. Different tension springs were available and some bend to adjust on spring tabs. There were also different design vacuum cans to pull against the spring tension. The flatheads were mostly all the same as long as we are talking the 239 or 255 V8s even though the 255 had a different carburetor. The Lincoln 337 was a lot different and required mechanical advance as well. With a 272 Y-block carb on there then there could be a difference since the Y-blocks needed more advance. This may have only been for the distributor settings but I can't confirm that without further research. A timing light is an easier way to see if the flathead is running within the range or not. As Ol'Ron mentions, the modified GM distributor with an adjustable vacuum can would be a much better choice for efficiency since it has a lot more range and is easier to adjust than the Holley LOM distributor. A person can use any carb combination they want with that set up.

11-01-2021, 09:52 AM	#32
demingboy Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Cozumel and Deming N.M. Posts: 87	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead it looks to me like it has the petronix ignition in it as it uses the same coil and wires that were suggested to me. Does timing change with that set up? Also I am in process of buying a merc engine and this post shows me that the stock merc oil pan will work in my 41. So I am glad once again to view posts here

11-01-2021, 10:54 AM	#33
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,315	Re: timing a 51 EAB flathead The timing for the engine does not change, but the timing itself can, because the Pertronix will probably provide a longer dwell period, that will effectively advance when the spark actually occurs. The engine should be re-timed (to stock specs) after any change in the ignition. This became painfully obvious to me after I installed one in a SBC powered boat I had years ago. (I generally don't like aftermarket electronic ignitions, but the distributor was so difficult to get at that I thought I'd try one.) After installation, I tried to start the engine and it backfired once and stopped dead. Because it was in a boat in the water, the backfire caused the engine to draw water into the engine which hydro-locked it. After re-timing it, it started right up but had a bad miss. The hydro-locking had caused one of my fancy roller rockers to break right off. Ever try to find ONE matching roller rocker? The engine ran great thereafter with 1 stamped steel Chevrolet rocker and 15 fancy aluminum roller rockers (I was going to change it at some later date, but....).