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Old 03-01-2021, 04:11 PM   #1
Old-Ford-Iron
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Default 59 Camshaft oiling

So I am sending a cam to be ground. I discovered mine are dissimilar. Both came out of 59's. One says Ford. Both say 21A. Both have same timing gears when dismantled.

The one marked ford/21A has two slots. One letting oil in/out/under into oil pump and a slot letting oil in/out/under into the valve valley.

The one marked 21A only has the one letting oil flow back and forth to oil pump.

Anyone have any preference?

thoughts on oil pressure?

which one would you grind and install in your rebuild.
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Old 03-01-2021, 05:51 PM   #2
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

The one with the journals not worn, I went through some cams and found 1/2 of them had undersized journals, , as much as .010 difference between the center and end journals
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Old 03-01-2021, 06:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

I will double check when I get home and edit if needed. From memory, if any of the 3 journals are less than 1.7955 for 78, 81A, 59A it should be discarded unless you can find oversize bearings which i don't think they make anymore, maybe NOS somewhere.
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Last edited by Will D; 03-01-2021 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Number correction
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Old 03-01-2021, 06:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

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I will double check when I get home and edit if needed. From memory, if any of the 3 journals are less than 1.7665 for 78, 81A, 59A it should be discarded unless you can find oversize bearings which i don't think they make anymore, maybe NOS somewhere.
I know Durabond make .010 under.

Last edited by Tim Ayers; 03-01-2021 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

1.794 is minimum journal size for standard bearings in a street engine.

I would not put .010 OVER bearings in a street engine.

.010 UNDER are available.

Another core is better than grinding the journals undersize due to cost. Just take a mic with you when you go buying cores.
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

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Either 1 or 2 oil groove rear journal cores will work in the early blocks.
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

Pete. what is the second groove for?
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

My book says to replace if any journal measures less 1.7955

I would do what Pete suggests as that is real world, tried and tested.

Does the cam with the double have a "C" in front of the "21A"?? I have a camshaft marked on the snout, "C59A" (Canadian version) and it has the double slots.
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

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I know Durabond make .010 under.
Thank you Tim, that's pertinent information.
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

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1.794 is minimum journal size for standard bearings in a street engine.

I would not put .010 OVER bearings in a street engine.

.010 UNDER are available.

Another core is better than grinding the journals undersize due to cost. Just take a mic with you when you go buying cores.

Thanks, Pete. That was my error.
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Old 03-01-2021, 10:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

I dunno; I tend to be a bit anal, but whenever I get a camshaft reground, I, or the camgrinder, needs to put a centre in the nose of the cam in order for him/her to be able to grind the new profile...
Now, just suppose the centre isn't 'spot on'; say it's .010" out. It won't be, but we'll use that as an example; easier to imagine the following scenario. Now you get the situation that when the cam is installed all the newly ground cam lobes are eccentric to how the cam is running in the block, with the frontmost cylinders having the most runout [on account of the .010" eccentric centre], reducing in runout progressively toward the rear of block, where the camshaft has the factory centre.
So...if, after having the camlobes ground between the centres [one factory, one newly machined], we install our nice new .010 undersize [that's right eh Pete?], measure the installed inside diameter of each cam bearing, we can now grind the three cam journals to the correct clearance, between those very same centres, confident that the camshaft will run dead true with correct clearances.
Just the way I do it....
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

Good explanation Brian. if the factory center is off, we assume it moved from abuse, or was off from new? also, the extra slot in the OP's question, why? what does it feed, the fuel pump push rod?
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Old 03-02-2021, 01:47 AM   #13
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

the extra slot in the OP's question, why?
I dunno, every camshaft I've ever seen has both grooves. our stuff down here is Canadian. Do the American cams only have the one rear groove?
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Old 03-02-2021, 12:15 PM   #14
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

OP shows 2 cams, one with two slots, one with one slot.
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Old 03-02-2021, 08:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

Did you see the answer to your post on the HAMB on this subject that I left?
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:00 AM   #16
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

I couldn't find a C indicating Canadian. Good thought though.

Ronnie I did see your response and thanks.

I sent the single relieved/slotted one in today. And yes it passed factory cam bearing tolerance. I think the single slotted cam will run more psi. and volume of oil elsewhere in the engine anyways. Last bearing i'll be worrying about is the rear cam.

Thanks for good feedback gents
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Old 03-03-2021, 04:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: 59 Camshaft oiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Ford-Iron View Post
I couldn't find a C indicating Canadian. Good thought though.

Ronnie I did see your response and thanks.

I sent the single relieved/slotted one in today. And yes it passed factory cam bearing tolerance. I think the single slotted cam will run more psi. and volume of oil elsewhere in the engine anyways. Last bearing i'll be worrying about is the rear cam.

Thanks for good feedback gents
Good choice you will be happy with the results.
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First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH
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