Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-03-2014, 06:16 PM   #1
MARKA
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 31
Default REAR END Question

Hello everyone , maybe someone can give me some advice-
I have just replaced the diff carrier bearings (both bearings and cups). I have also replaced the carrier spider gears to eiminate the excessive axle end play.

I have not replaced the crown gear/ring gear and the pinion adjustment was not touched. I made a note of the gaskets that were between the axle housing and banjo on each side when they were taken apart.

My Question is - Do I need to reset any preloads or can I just bolt everything back together and all should be o.k. ?

Tom Endy maybe able to chime in here .

Thanks
Mark.
MARKA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 07:49 PM   #2
MARKA
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 31
Default Re: REAR END Question

Does anyone have a suggestion or opinion ?
MARKA is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 03-03-2014, 08:03 PM   #3
d.j. moordigian
Senior Member
 
d.j. moordigian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fresno, Ca.
Posts: 3,636
Default Re: REAR END Question

Yes, I think you should check the preload. Since you mentioned Tom Endy,
did you look at his site?
.
.................................. 10. www.ocmafc.org Orange County Model A Ford Club (Tom Endy's Technical Articles) (California)...........................
d.j. moordigian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 08:10 PM   #4
MARKA
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 31
Default Re: REAR END Question

Hi Yes I have seen Tom Endy's article.
I just thought that maybe because I had not altered the pinion or crownwheel settings I would not have to check the preload settings.

All I have done is put new carrier bearings in.

Thanks for your reply
MARKA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 08:21 PM   #5
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: REAR END Question

new carrier bearings can change preload possibly needing different thickness gaskets than what was removed

Last edited by Mitch//pa; 03-03-2014 at 08:36 PM.
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 08:27 PM   #6
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 5,809
Default Re: REAR END Question

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
New bearings new pre load. Gaskets come in different thickness's so just counting the old ones is problematic. Plus the old gaskets have taken a set/crush and there would be no way to pre crush the new ones to get the same thickness for checking.
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 08:38 PM   #7
d.j. moordigian
Senior Member
 
d.j. moordigian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fresno, Ca.
Posts: 3,636
Default Re: REAR END Question

"Best Gaskets" brand................

.
d.j. moordigian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 08:42 PM   #8
MARKA
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 31
Default Re: REAR END Question

Yes tahnks for the advice I will definatley check the preload.
Time spent now will prevent grief later.

Thanks for your responses
MARKA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 08:44 PM   #9
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 5,809
Default Re: REAR END Question

d.j.
Nice picture but you don't give any information. Who, what and how much. Who sell that set? What are the thickness of the gaskets? What is the price of the set?
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 08:51 PM   #10
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: REAR END Question

The BEST COMP Gasket set is the best quality available. Most jobbers sell them just ask
It comes with everything you need
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 08:53 PM   #11
MikeK
Senior Member
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,915
Default Re: REAR END Question

Even if you changed nothing, as long as you are doing a tear-down, it would not be prudent to ASSUME the preload and other settings were correct. Another way to look at it: How many times do you want to R&R the rear end?
__________________
Mechanical engineering 101: If you put an adjustment knob, screw, bolt, or tolerance specs on something, some people will immediately fiddle with it. If you mark it DO NOT TOUCH everyone will mess with it.
MikeK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 08:57 PM   #12
d.j. moordigian
Senior Member
 
d.j. moordigian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fresno, Ca.
Posts: 3,636
Default Re: REAR END Question

The company's name is "Best Gaskets",...I purchase them from my
local machine shop. I used there gasket set when I did an 8BA engine
for a customer. There not cheap....
.
.............white-.003, ivory-.005, green-.007, blue-.009................
d.j. moordigian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 09:04 PM   #13
Mikeinnj
Senior Member
 
Mikeinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 1,258
Default Re: REAR END Question

Some rear differential carriers are worn to the point where the carrier needs to be shimmed to get the correct pre-load set. Bratton's carries the shims for this. Before I learned of this, I was doing a rebuild and ended up with a huge amount of gaskets on the axle housings. Another good reason you should measure the pre-load and adjust if necessary.





http://www.bestgasket.com/drive_trai...0U-Joint%20Set
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Carrier Bearing Shim.jpg (50.5 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by Mikeinnj; 03-03-2014 at 10:02 PM. Reason: sp.
Mikeinnj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 09:49 PM   #14
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,804
Default Re: REAR END Question

I would not rely on the gaskets you found in place as being correct for proper pre-load. Who ever had it apart before may not have set the pre-load correctly. A few years ago suppliers were selling rebuild gasket kits supplied with two .010 banjo gaskets. Most people put one on each side and bolted it up without any thought to pre-load. This was the cause of many carrier bearings being spun on their hubs.

You did not mention if you replaced the two pinion bearings and the double race, To do the job properly you should replace all four tapered roller bearings, the two single races, the double race, and all three axle\drive shaft seals.

There are three settings that should be considered, and in the following sequence.

1. the carrier bearing pre-load, done by selecting the quantity and thickness of banjo gaskets.

2. The pinion bearing pre-load, done by properly adjusting the two large nuts on the pinion gear sleeve. The nominal setting for both settings is 20 in lbs.

3. The backlash between the ring and pinion gears, done by shifting the previously selected banjo gaskets right and left.

Usually when rebuilding the differential it is quite common to find the carrier bearings spun on the mounting hubs. My experience is about 3 out of 4 are spun. This requires either replacement of the carrier, or knurling of the existing. Often there is not enough material left to knurl. I keep a supply of knurled carriers in stock and exchange them when found spun. It is usually necessary to put shims under the new bearings on a knurled carrier to compensate for material spun from the bearing stop. Bratton' stocks them in .005 thickness. I have had to stack as many as three on a given carrier to achieve proper pre-load.

All the information you need to rebuild the rear axle assembly is in the dissertation several people above have commented on. It is on the Orange County Model A Club web site. You are welcome to down load it, print it out, and use it.

Tom Endy
Tom Endy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 10:03 PM   #15
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,804
Default Re: REAR END Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian View Post
The company's name is "Best Gaskets",...I purchase them from my
local machine shop. I used there gasket set when I did an 8BA engine
for a customer. There not cheap....
.
.............white-.003, ivory-.005, green-.007, blue-.009................
This is an excellent gasket kit. A number of years ago someone gave me a set and it did make setting the carrier pre-load very easy. However the price of this kit was about $25. I would have to add this cost to every rear axle assembly I rebuilt. I prefer to try to keep the cost down. I find I can achieve proper preload with a combination of the two sizes Bratton's offer. .010 and .006. They sell for $1.25 each, and each job usually requires from two to six. The .005 carrier shims sell for $1.00 each

Tom Endy
Tom Endy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 10:29 PM   #16
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: REAR END Question

setting the rear end properly can be tedious, but well worth the time given what you have to go thru to get at everything. Print out Tom's splendid article and follow the instructions to a T and it will be time well spent. I know he prefers the dial type inch-pound wrench but they are hard to find and pricey. I have had good luck with the beam-type torque wrench and double check my work a couple times; spin it round and round. Even these can be tough to find, but bicycle shops use inch pound wrenches all day long and sometimes sell them, or go online to get one, they are inexpensive (20-25 bucks). You usually have to use several adapters to get the wrench on pinion since the inch pound wrenches are 1/4 inch drive.
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 11:10 PM   #17
MARKA
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 31
Default Re: REAR END Question

Thanks to Tom and others for your advice
Yes I have deceided to go the whole hog and do it right the first time rather than risk damaging the diff and associated parts that I have replaced . And then having to do the entire job over again.
It maybe tedious but worth the time put in.

Thanks
Mark.
MARKA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 12:40 AM   #18
Pocket Nick
Junior Member
 
Pocket Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 4
Default Re: REAR END Question

Absolutely, as long as its apart, do it once and correctly so you won't have that "what if" constantly in the back of your mind.
Pocket Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:32 AM.