Another question from the uninformed---me

[gypsycandle]

good point charlie....thanks for that advice, i didn't think of that.

[1930artdeco]

Just to muddy the waters a bit, my first thought was a 'B' timing cover was installed. I don't know how to tell them apart (someone here will chime in). Another tip is that if you have to take the timing cover off again, you may want to drill the dimple a little larger. That makes it easier for the pin to drop in-or use a small cross point screw driver.

Mike

[Tom F OHIO]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

Just to muddy the waters a bit, my first thought was a 'B' timing cover was installed. I don't know how to tell them apart (someone here will chime in). Another tip is that if you have to take the timing cover off again, you may want to drill the dimple a little larger. That makes it easier for the pin to drop in-or use a small cross point screw driver.

Mike

Mike, he made the dimple a little deeper. You must of accidentally read over post #18.

[1930artdeco]

Yep missed that Tom.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

Just to muddy the waters a bit, my first thought was a 'B' timing cover was installed. I don't know how to tell them apart (someone here will chime in). Another tip is that if you have to take the timing cover off again, you may want to drill the dimple a little larger. That makes it easier for the pin to drop in-or use a small cross point screw driver.

Mike

The model A intake was curved on the top. The Model B had a flat top. There were two Model B intakes. The first ones had the vacuum intake in the front and the later ones had it at the rear. I prefer the look of the later ones on a Model A.

Charlie Stephens

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Before you remove the timing cover, do a check.
Do all the valves move up and down OK?
If so, then do a piston/valve overlap check. Hand crank the piston to TDC on the exhaust stoke and the exhaust valve should be just about closed and the intake should be just a little open? Is this the way it actually is now?

BTW, another example of someone thinking they don't need antifreeze because it almost never freezes. So what is the coolant is all rusty. Sermon over.

Here's a picture of the timing marks. The right side of the keyway lines up to the cam gear mark. With the oil slinger in place, you probably can't see the dot in the gear, but you can see the keyway.

[gypsycandle]

Hi Tom, Thanks for the input, yes all the valves move up and down and seem to be seated well...(well almost well) I had intended lapping them all to remove any rust that may be on the seat. The car sat for 50 years in a barn in florida and yes there was much rust in the water and much water in the oil(looked like a delicious milkshake) lol.
I did check the gear cover and it's a A cover, here is a link for you to look at to explain the differences in the covers. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/timingcovers.htm
I don't know if that worked right but you can copy it and paste it..
I'll do the overlap test tomorrow...as I stated before I'm not well versed on the engine but this week i've learned a lot and read a lot.
Look at post #13 for the pics that I posted, the last is of the water that was in the cylinders #2,#3,#4.
After i replaced the head and new gasket...the weird thing was that it started and ran for 15 seconds...(shut it off because there was no oil or water in it).
Since then have only gotten it to sputter never actually run.
I haven't had a chance to put antifreeze in it yet but yes i know it needs it (even though I live in FL.) It does freeze here too.
I have to remove the cover again because now i'm curious about the marks and to see if the gear broke?
HaHA...my simple project has turned into a MEGA project, I know i could go the easy route and get a short block but I'd like to solve the problem if I can.
Thanks for your interest,
Michael...

[Tom Wesenberg]

If the valve overlap is correct, then you shouldn't have to remove the front cover again. I have the head off my engine, and if I remember, tomorrow I'll take a picture of the piston at TDC on the exhaust stroke, and show the valve overlap.

I've run engines for 15 seconds without coolant, but would never start an engine with no oil.

[30ccpickup]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

1. From your above report in Reply 11, no doubt you will succeed.

2. Fifty years of sitting in a barn depends a lot on the type of barn; but, in thinking positively, at least your engine is about the same age as all of the other engines mentioned on this Forum. LOL.

3. It is very possible that you have original valve tappets which are moved up and down by the cam; hence, if you installed a new, non-adjusted no.1 valve, it is very possible that this valve is not closing tightly to seal the no. 1 combustion chamber.

4. When one grinds valve seats, metal is removed from the valve seat area; hence the required valve stem gap near the tappet is reduced to where metal has to be "very carefully" removed from the end of the valve stem until one obtains a gap of 0.011" at the ends of intake valves, and 0.013" for exhaust valves.

5. Providing such small miniscule valve stem gaps with the original tappets is never mentioned often, but is not a big deal. After doing about (2) valves, it is about as easy as rolling (8) cigarettes with a pack of tobacco and a book of cigarette paper. Let me know if you would like to hear how this was easily done often years ago with simple non-electric hand tools ....... in the 1930's rural electrification had not happened everywhere yet ..... kerosene lamps, chamber pots, and wood stoves were considered Uptown ...... but the Model T's and Model A's kept rolling with vintage rural mechanical ingenuity.

This would be great! Since he did say OK, can you start it as a new thread. I have one I need to do.

[gypsycandle]

Hi 30ccpickup, Yes please let let know how they did that back when.
Michael...

[gypsycandle]

Hi Tom, Well it's all apart again so I may as well take the cover off and see what i'm dealing with as far as the fiber gear goes. Maybe it was only 10 seconds worth of running but I had the pistons soaked in marvel mystery oil(i hope that helped prevent any damage).
I really was testing the new head to see if there was any more water seepage anywhere into the pan. I didn't see any.
thank you,
Michael...

[katy]

I really was testing the new head to see if there was any more water seepage anywhere into the pan. I didn't see any.

You said you ran it w/out water or oil, so you're not going to get any "water seepage anywhere into the pan" without water in it.

The MMO might have saved the pistons, rings and cylinder walls, but I'd be more concerned about the bearings. That's a huge NO NO running w/out oil.

[gypsycandle]

Hi Katy, you are right , I was out of logical sequence there. I had done so many things to the engine that I confused myself upon recalling events. Thanks for keeping it real.
Gotta love this forum...lol

[gypsycandle]

30ccpickup...sry thought it was H.L. that said that"Let me know if you would like to hear how this was easily done often years ago with simple non-electric hand tools ......
Yes let me know how..
Michael...

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by gypsycandle

30ccpickup...sry thought it was H.L. that said that"Let me know if you would like to hear how this was easily done often years ago with simple non-electric hand tools ......
Yes let me know how..
Michael...

Before electric drills, I had to use my coal fired steam drill.

[katy]

Something like this?

[CarlG]

Boy, does that bring back memories. The first picture in post #36. As a lad of 10 or 11, I was using one of those that came off of it's mount and landed on the back of my hand while still spinning. I carried that reminder scar for many years