Type of paint to use??

[crumbaa]

Restoring my grandpa's 30 Cabriolet. We are doing going ground up frame off but not planning to build a fine point car. Plan is to build nice driver and make it as close to true stock as we can without braking the bank. We are not planning to go back with original colors. Wheels, body, stripe will be “storm gray metallic”, it s dark silvery gray, black fenders, rear upper body, and top. I do not know a lot about paint and the choices are a bit overwhelming. From what I have read lacquer chips pretty easy and does not hold up very well, Enamel seems to be better than Lacquer and I can't find many comments that say there is a down side for enamel, I had a cutlass in the 70s with water based paint the came off the car in sheets, urethane seems to produce the best overall results. Given that we are not going for fine point do you have an opinion as to the best overall paint to go with? There is also the question clear coat, is this just a matter of preference or is it something that makes the finish last longer? We plan to have it painted so complexity of the paint system is not really an issue. Thoughts? Opinions? Any advice you have would be appreciated.

[larrys40]

I like sherwin Williams 2nd Dimension enamel w / hardner . It goes on great. Color sands well, looks more authentic. I've even done mid panel spot touch up's with good results it will buff well now. ... And ten years from now

Harder to find sherwin auto paint dealers but they are out there
Sorry ... I am not a bass/clear fan for restoration
Larry Shepard

[Kevin in NJ]

For undercoats get Southern Polyurethane (SPI) paints. Low cost high quality and work great. You can call the number for advice too.

The basic modern way to paint is epoxy direct to metal (this seals the metal and bonds tightly). Bondo on the epoxy during the recoat window. Filling primer, modern 2 part isocyanate type, if needed. Then sealer coat, frequently a thinned filling primer and dark for dark paint and light for light paint. Then the top coat.

For a top coat I personally recommend NOT going with BC/CC. The clear coat is just super glossy and looks super- it is out of place on the A. The A paint was never a super wet look, it was just buffed out lacquer. A good quality single stage paint, I like the PPG Concept. It is too glossly if laid out well and needs to be buffed some to get close to the right gloss.

A lot of paints will do the job for a top coat. None hardened paints work just as well, but can be more difficult to fix chips. The more expensive paints tend to be better paints because they have more solids and cover better. So there is some value in buying better stuff. The key is to read and follow the manufacturers instructions, not you best friend Bill who has painted a bunch of cars. Lots of just wrong information out there. You can put paint on anything and have it look great, but if the prep is not right it will not stay on long.

I will add for safety. You must I mean MUST have an excellent fitting charcoal filter mask if you are well ventilated when using urethane paints. Better yet spend the $$$ for a pressure fed mask. While it may seem pricey, they have a high resale value and you will make your money back.
Isocyanates cause allergic reactions and the number one entry point is your skin cause most guys use good air. Keep covered up when spraying. The allergic reaction is an industrial asthma. If you get chest tightness a while after spraying then you are done. Each exposure afterwards will make it worse and you can die from it. The other chemicals in paint only kill off your liver, kidneys and nervous system. Keep covered up and you will keep safe.

[28ACoupe]

Acrylic Lacquer for the body and Acrylic Enamel for the fenders and chassis.

All PPG. I have used the other offerings over the years and keep coming back go these.

[700rpm]

I'd trust 28ACoupe. He knows his stuff. Kevin too, for the same reason. Kevin's safety comments remind me why I quit painting.

[28ACoupe]

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Safety first!

A good mask is expensive. But, how much is your life worth?

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

I will add for safety. You must I mean MUST have an excellent fitting charcoal filter mask if you are well ventilated when using urethane paints. Better yet spend the $$$ for a pressure fed mask. While it may seem pricey, they have a high resale value and you will make your money back.
Isocyanates cause allergic reactions and the number one entry point is your skin cause most guys use good air. Keep covered up when spraying. The allergic reaction is an industrial asthma. If you get chest tightness a while after spraying then you are done. Each exposure afterwards will make it worse and you can die from it. The other chemicals in paint only kill off your liver, kidneys and nervous system. Keep covered up and you will keep safe.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by larrys40

I like sherwin Williams 2nd Dimension enamel w / hardner . It goes on great. Color sands well, looks more authentic. I've even done mid panel spot touch up's with good results it will buff well now. ... And ten years from now

Harder to find sherwin auto paint dealers but they are out there
Sorry ... I am not a bass/clear fan for restoration
Larry Shepard

Yeah I love the dimension series single stage from sherwin. I started using it for chassis, then I liked it so much I sprayed my speedster body in dimension. I think it looks pretty good, and sanded really well once it was fully cured. It's not the highest quality of paint, but it's not the lowest either. I think it's a great product for the price. I always prefer base/clear on the body, but the speedster wasnt something worth doing base clear on.

[Jim/GA]

When I read the original post, it sounds to me like he is having a paint shop spray the car. So he is looking for advice on what to have the painter use.

I might be reading that wrong.

[crumbaa]

Jim is correct I am planning to have a paint shop shoot the paint and need to be able to at least sounds like i know what I am talking about so I can ask for the "right" stuff. I am afraid if I go in sounding to ignorant I might end up with a macco job. If I get advice from guys here I will know what to ask for and the shop will know they have to do a good job or it will be noticed.

[whizzernick]

any one that uses acrylic laquer to day should have his head examined........

[Purdy Swoft]

If you want the best longest lasting finish, as a retired bodyman painter I would recommend a single stage urethane. I used Sherwin Williams on the coupe and it still looks good after 20 years of mostly outside storage.

[28ACoupe]

Originally Posted by whizzernick

any one that uses acrylic laquer to day should have his head examined........

And why is that? Because of some perceived threat to the environment?

I have shot pretty much every other kind of auto paint out there at one time or another and simply don't get the end result that I get with Lacquer. I am not saying it is the best. I am saying it is the best for me on the cars that I have built.

[Kurt in NJ]

Something I havn't seen asked--what is the target budget for paint/bodywork?

Since with paint you only get final results based on what is underneath ---if you are doing all your own priming and prep work it could be good to ask the painter (for some xtra$$) to come to the car to inspect your prep before taking the car to final paint

I have seen a lot of Maaco jobs that looked better than $5000 repaints, and I have seen 10,000$ jobs that have looked perfect at 1 month, but have had big chunks bubble up from rust underneath and fall off within 1 year---and the shop wouldn't do anything about it because they write on the bill "no garrantee due to rust" --so they don't even try to stop it

With paint you only get what is underneath, no matter how the final paint is done.

[Russ B]

Single stage urethanes are great paints. …but a body shop or professional painter will have to use what is allowed by the air quality regulations in your area. In my case, my next will be in a PPG Envirobase, water based paint. My painter recently did some repainting of a few panels on a closed cab PU. The old was a 20 year old single stage urethane and the new is the new water based stuff; they both look great and well matched.

…but good quality is not cheap, materials cost a lot.

[Marco Tahtaras]

I disagree with some of the comments. Since you are talking metallic, the "looking like a Model A" issue is irrelevant as it won't. Metallics look clear coated by nature so you may as well take advantage of the opportunities two stage offers. Metallics require a bit more skill to spray in enamels without looking streaky in the flow of the metallic particles. Base coat will be more like a thin coat of lacquer but where flowing it for gloss is not a concern so the metallic stays where it was laid down. The clear can then be laid on good or bad but without shifting the metallic.

In reality you're best off going with what the painter is most comfortable with. Since most of the industry has shifted to BC/CC it will be more difficult to find a painter today that can still do a good job with single stage metallic.

[karasmer]

I have a 99 Dodge that looks like it has a clear coat of some sorts and the clear seems to be coming off in certain areas and looks terrible. Is clear coat worth the risk?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by karasmer

I have a 99 Dodge that looks like it has a clear coat of some sorts and the clear seems to be coming off in certain areas and looks terrible. Is clear coat worth the risk?

If you look at any chrystler product from the mid 90's to about 2004-5 the clear starts peeling up, or fading away. It was just a bad method, or product that they applied. A good quality clear, on top of clean metal, and good quality primer/base, that is taken care of (not left outside, or damaged) will probably have a lifetime longer than you'll ever see. The clear we usually spray on A's or any restoration type project is $480 a gallon I believe, after a shop discount. It's 950 clear from sherwin Williams, and I wouldn't doubt the paint Job would last longer than me on this earth, and I'm almost 21.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by karasmer

I have a 99 Dodge that looks like it has a clear coat of some sorts and the clear seems to be coming off in certain areas and looks terrible. Is clear coat worth the risk?

I will add that any automotive finish has a very limited life span if left outdoors and not protected repeatedly with a good wax or equivalent.

[SkipShift]

Your painter is probably going to tell you the metallic color needs to be bc/cc. He probably uses urethane. Can be done with single stage enamel but metallics usually turn out splotchy. Acrylic lacquer applies easy and buffs out nice. Not as durable as urethane or enamel. If you are going to do any prep work use same products your painter would use. If I was painting storm gray metallic I would use PPG Deltron DBC basecoat, Concept Urethane clearcoat. The solid colors Deltron Concept Acrylic Urethane single stage. I have used Dupont, RM and House of Kolor products they work well. PPG is usually easier to find. All are pricy.

[crumbaa]

Thanks for all the great advice. It sounds like the bottom line is good body work, use the material that the painter feels comfortable with, and don't go on the cheap. As always great info from those that have been there. I really appreciate all the advice.