The Ford Barn

28ACoupe · 02-24-2014, 12:37 AM

The vast majority of the "bodymen" out there don't actually understand metal. Even those who went to school don't get it. It takes years of learning and perfecting the craft. It is part Black-smithing, part metallurgy. How many bodymen do you know who have studied either in depth? These days, in the same time it takes for someone to rough out a panel, smear on a glob of body filler, wait for it to dry, sand it off and re-smear as needed, I have the same panel completely finished.

I have said it before and I will say it again, Body filler is for those who don't know how to properly finish metal panels, don't feel they have the time to finish panels because their skills are not up to speed, or they are just plain lazy. Top shelf bodywork is not hard, nor does it take a huge amount of time if, you take the time to actually gather the skills to do so.

Purdy Swoft · 02-24-2014, 11:36 AM

I agree that mostly some of the older bodymen can actually straighten metal with no filler. I've seen a lot of old bodymen that were actually puttymen , which in my view are the worse of all !!!!!!! On the other hand, in most cases actually straightening metal without filler is just not practical, especially with newer automobiles. Body shops mostly don't want antique restoration jobs, its really a different world. People can do their cars anyway that they want or their skills permit as far as I'm concerned. I don't recommend improper use of body filler but see no need in name calling for the proper use of body filler as needed. The way that I see it is that you don't understand. You have shown me what you know. Again, the more that you say, the worse it looks. Get REAL!!!!!!!

tbirdtbird · 02-24-2014, 11:53 AM

"Body shops don't want antique restoration jobs, its really a different world."

This is very true, indeed. Restoration is a different animal. While there are some metal workers that may be able to straighten tin quickly, for most that are skilled (like my nephew), it is time consuming.

Getting out the planishers, hand and air-powered, and knowing how to use them, and accomplishing something, and shrinking, takes time FOR MOST. Customers are generally NOT willing to pay for this. Most customers don't even understand all these differences. Most restorers do enough metal work that they can then use a skim coat of filler. There are exceptions to everything. Some customers want the full tin resto, no filler. Some bodymen/restorers cheat like hell with filler. There are many that think just because they can open a can of plastic that they are instant experts. The actual prep of the metal itself is a separate issue, we always prep the bare steel with phosphoric acid, which is a substance unknown to most. But being a former northern boy, if you did not do this, the prevailing humidity and salt up north would rot your bondo off in 5 yrs. There has been much written about this on this forum, it is called Parkerizing. But I digress.
Generally I personally feel that the quality of the metal and filler work that I see is substandard.

The bottom line is people need to do what works for them and their budget. Name calling here accomplishes nothing.

wrndln · 02-24-2014, 01:22 PM

I had a local body shop do some work on a pair of front fenders (outside bead area) and another piece my skill level couldn't handle. As everyone knows, getting the front fender bead real straight it very hard to do well. The shop fellow said they had done heavy sheetmetal work on model A's sometime back and would do the work I needed done. It took a long time for them to do the work, as I think they did it as fill in work, which was OK with me. The fenders and other piece turned out very nice and I was quite satisfied. However, the fellow said they wouldn't do any more work on model A parts, I suspect because they probably didn't make any money for amount they quoted me verses the time it took to do the nice work. I even ask if I paid them more, would they do some more work and they still said no. Now I need to find another shop that will do some work (metal shrinking) I don't think I have the skills to do. Like has been stated earlier, finding a shop that has someone that does good metal work is tough to find at any price.
Rusty Nelson

02-24-2014, 12:37 AM	#41
28ACoupe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 559	Re: Type of paint to use?? The vast majority of the "bodymen" out there don't actually understand metal. Even those who went to school don't get it. It takes years of learning and perfecting the craft. It is part Black-smithing, part metallurgy. How many bodymen do you know who have studied either in depth? These days, in the same time it takes for someone to rough out a panel, smear on a glob of body filler, wait for it to dry, sand it off and re-smear as needed, I have the same panel completely finished. I have said it before and I will say it again, Body filler is for those who don't know how to properly finish metal panels, don't feel they have the time to finish panels because their skills are not up to speed, or they are just plain lazy. Top shelf bodywork is not hard, nor does it take a huge amount of time if, you take the time to actually gather the skills to do so. __________________ 1928 Model A Business Coupe Rebuild picture gallery here The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off due to budget cuts.

02-24-2014, 11:36 AM	#42
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Type of paint to use?? I agree that mostly some of the older bodymen can actually straighten metal with no filler. I've seen a lot of old bodymen that were actually puttymen , which in my view are the worse of all !!!!!!! On the other hand, in most cases actually straightening metal without filler is just not practical, especially with newer automobiles. Body shops mostly don't want antique restoration jobs, its really a different world. People can do their cars anyway that they want or their skills permit as far as I'm concerned. I don't recommend improper use of body filler but see no need in name calling for the proper use of body filler as needed. The way that I see it is that you don't understand. You have shown me what you know. Again, the more that you say, the worse it looks. Get REAL!!!!!!!

02-24-2014, 11:53 AM	#43
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Type of paint to use?? "Body shops don't want antique restoration jobs, its really a different world." This is very true, indeed. Restoration is a different animal. While there are some metal workers that may be able to straighten tin quickly, for most that are skilled (like my nephew), it is time consuming. Getting out the planishers, hand and air-powered, and knowing how to use them, and accomplishing something, and shrinking, takes time FOR MOST. Customers are generally NOT willing to pay for this. Most customers don't even understand all these differences. Most restorers do enough metal work that they can then use a skim coat of filler. There are exceptions to everything. Some customers want the full tin resto, no filler. Some bodymen/restorers cheat like hell with filler. There are many that think just because they can open a can of plastic that they are instant experts. The actual prep of the metal itself is a separate issue, we always prep the bare steel with phosphoric acid, which is a substance unknown to most. But being a former northern boy, if you did not do this, the prevailing humidity and salt up north would rot your bondo off in 5 yrs. There has been much written about this on this forum, it is called Parkerizing. But I digress. Generally I personally feel that the quality of the metal and filler work that I see is substandard. The bottom line is people need to do what works for them and their budget. Name calling here accomplishes nothing. __________________ '31 180A Last edited by tbirdtbird; 02-24-2014 at 12:01 PM.

02-24-2014, 01:22 PM	#44
wrndln Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5,162	Re: Type of paint to use?? I had a local body shop do some work on a pair of front fenders (outside bead area) and another piece my skill level couldn't handle. As everyone knows, getting the front fender bead real straight it very hard to do well. The shop fellow said they had done heavy sheetmetal work on model A's sometime back and would do the work I needed done. It took a long time for them to do the work, as I think they did it as fill in work, which was OK with me. The fenders and other piece turned out very nice and I was quite satisfied. However, the fellow said they wouldn't do any more work on model A parts, I suspect because they probably didn't make any money for amount they quoted me verses the time it took to do the nice work. I even ask if I paid them more, would they do some more work and they still said no. Now I need to find another shop that will do some work (metal shrinking) I don't think I have the skills to do. Like has been stated earlier, finding a shop that has someone that does good metal work is tough to find at any price. Rusty Nelson