The Ford Barn

mgm60 · 04-04-2021, 08:20 PM

So my horn does not sound at all like a horn, it sounds like a giant buzzer. Any ideas out there on how to trouble shoot. It is a 36 horn, not wired to the steering wheel horn button any longer. P.O. wired to a button under the dash.

Thanks
Mark

swedishsteel · 04-04-2021, 10:45 PM

They take a lot of juice, and the less juice the "croakier" they sound. On my '36 coupe, I used the original horn, just bolted it on. I have a one wire alternator and the revs need to get pretty high before it will kick in. The horn will not "honk" if the alternator is not charging, and I have an Optima 6 volt so it isn't the battery. And I took extra care making good grounds, so I'm pretty sure it isn't that. On the other hand, I have no idea what the horn sounded like when new. Wiring harness is new and correct. Someday I might try direct wire it with heavier wire to see it makes a difference, but that is way down on the project list. Cheers.

mgm60 · 04-05-2021, 08:09 AM

Thanks Swedishsteel. I'll pull it out this week, check grounds and see if more voltage makes a difference.

mgm60 · 05-02-2021, 06:44 PM

So I pulled both horns and applied voltage on the bench and the only difference is 12V is louder than 6V. I was able to get a little bit different in sound by adjusting the 3/8s fine adjustment nut. Your supposed to be able to set the air gap on the armatures. Does anybody out there know how that adjustment is made or have copy of original documents on adjusting? The bolt that holds the whole thing together has two thread sizes, one at the end for the fine adjustment and a larger one that goes through the rectangular nut on top of the armature.

Lawson Cox · 05-02-2021, 08:18 PM

The 36 type horn does not have an "armature". I have never seen a horn with an armature. Maybe the old Aooga type but I'm not certain about that.

mgm60 · 05-02-2021, 08:45 PM

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Thanks Lawson, maybe I'm calling it the wrong thing but here's a picture. My screwdriver is holding up what I called an armature. Believe I need a gap where I'm holding it up with the screw driver, or does it sit flush on the two post on either side of the winding?

petehoovie · 05-02-2021, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgm60

Thanks Lawson, maybe I'm calling it the wrong thing but here's a picture. My screwdriver is holding up what I called an armature. Believe I need a gap where I'm holding it up with the screw driver, or does it sit flush on the two post on either side of the winding?

VeryTangled · 05-02-2021, 09:03 PM

Here are some pics that I took, and a diagram, I think from Don Rogers. The diagram tells the story.

A thread that might help. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229928

Terry,OH · 05-03-2021, 07:16 AM

Yes the horns do have an armature! The moveable piece of a solenoid can be called several things, armature is one.
It appears someone has modified the adjustment and removed the two adjustment nuts. posting #8 clearly shows how the adjustment should appear.

mgm60 · 05-03-2021, 01:55 PM

Thanks Jeff, the diagram should help me get it back together the right way.

And Terry that was me that modified the adjustment. I took the whole thing apart trying to figure out what adjustments were possible and now that I have that way going to clean it all up, repaint, reassemble and hope I can get a beep beep instead of a quack buzz.

rotorwrench · 05-03-2021, 06:01 PM

A horn is made up of a vibrator coil with a moving armature to both act as the vibrating element and rapidly break the circuit to cause the vibration. Air gap is just to insure the armature doesn't rub the coil. Adjustment at manufacture was made to a specific current draw of the coil. Tone adjustment is just a slight adjustment of the pressure on the vibrator diaphragm. The old ones had the capacitor to make sure the points don't arc. It should be checked for the usual capacitor maladies and replaced if it's bad. These units didn't have a relay like the later ones did just before the war.

Running a 6-volt one on 12-volts can be a harsh experience. A person should really get the coil rewound for a more appropriate function if changing to the higher voltage. A dropping resistor can be used but it has an affect on the current draw.

04-04-2021, 08:20 PM	#1
mgm60 Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Parker, Colorado Posts: 63	36 Horn Problem So my horn does not sound at all like a horn, it sounds like a giant buzzer. Any ideas out there on how to trouble shoot. It is a 36 horn, not wired to the steering wheel horn button any longer. P.O. wired to a button under the dash. Thanks Mark

04-04-2021, 10:45 PM	#2
swedishsteel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 342	Re: 36 Horn Problem They take a lot of juice, and the less juice the "croakier" they sound. On my '36 coupe, I used the original horn, just bolted it on. I have a one wire alternator and the revs need to get pretty high before it will kick in. The horn will not "honk" if the alternator is not charging, and I have an Optima 6 volt so it isn't the battery. And I took extra care making good grounds, so I'm pretty sure it isn't that. On the other hand, I have no idea what the horn sounded like when new. Wiring harness is new and correct. Someday I might try direct wire it with heavier wire to see it makes a difference, but that is way down on the project list. Cheers.

04-05-2021, 08:09 AM	#3
mgm60 Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Parker, Colorado Posts: 63	Re: 36 Horn Problem Thanks Swedishsteel. I'll pull it out this week, check grounds and see if more voltage makes a difference.

05-02-2021, 06:44 PM	#4
mgm60 Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Parker, Colorado Posts: 63	Re: 36 Horn Problem So I pulled both horns and applied voltage on the bench and the only difference is 12V is louder than 6V. I was able to get a little bit different in sound by adjusting the 3/8s fine adjustment nut. Your supposed to be able to set the air gap on the armatures. Does anybody out there know how that adjustment is made or have copy of original documents on adjusting? The bolt that holds the whole thing together has two thread sizes, one at the end for the fine adjustment and a larger one that goes through the rectangular nut on top of the armature.

05-02-2021, 08:18 PM	#5
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: 36 Horn Problem The 36 type horn does not have an "armature". I have never seen a horn with an armature. Maybe the old Aooga type but I'm not certain about that. __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".

05-03-2021, 07:16 AM	#9
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,743	Re: 36 Horn Problem Yes the horns do have an armature! The moveable piece of a solenoid can be called several things, armature is one. It appears someone has modified the adjustment and removed the two adjustment nuts. posting #8 clearly shows how the adjustment should appear.

05-03-2021, 01:55 PM	#10
mgm60 Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Parker, Colorado Posts: 63	Re: 36 Horn Problem Thanks Jeff, the diagram should help me get it back together the right way. And Terry that was me that modified the adjustment. I took the whole thing apart trying to figure out what adjustments were possible and now that I have that way going to clean it all up, repaint, reassemble and hope I can get a beep beep instead of a quack buzz.

05-03-2021, 06:01 PM	#11
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 36 Horn Problem A horn is made up of a vibrator coil with a moving armature to both act as the vibrating element and rapidly break the circuit to cause the vibration. Air gap is just to insure the armature doesn't rub the coil. Adjustment at manufacture was made to a specific current draw of the coil. Tone adjustment is just a slight adjustment of the pressure on the vibrator diaphragm. The old ones had the capacitor to make sure the points don't arc. It should be checked for the usual capacitor maladies and replaced if it's bad. These units didn't have a relay like the later ones did just before the war. Running a 6-volt one on 12-volts can be a harsh experience. A person should really get the coil rewound for a more appropriate function if changing to the higher voltage. A dropping resistor can be used but it has an affect on the current draw.