|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
03-23-2021, 03:36 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
|
Head stud repair with insert...Q
When buying an insert used to repair a 7/16 x 14 head stud (A/B head stud),
what LENGTH insert is needed for best repair ? I see inserts of .600" and 1" available. Which have you used . I can't locate any other length, say 3/4" ? What is your experience/advice ? |
03-23-2021, 03:41 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 2,353
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
I don't have personal experience, but the .6 kit will give sufficient sq. inches of thread to work.
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
03-23-2021, 03:46 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
|
03-23-2021, 03:58 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 2,353
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
The normal rule, in cases where both the stud and the insert are made of steel, is that the thread engagement should be at least as long as the stud is wide, i.e. 7/16 or about 1/2". A 0.6" insert satisfies that and should handle 55 ft-lbs easily. Time-Sert has an FAQ on their site that mentions a few pointers when installing into blind holes.
Although the insert's threading won't be as long as the threading on the original block, the insert is made of stronger material, so less is needed. |
03-23-2021, 04:03 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,408
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
While .600 calculates ok, I would use the long ones. The integrity of the deck material is not new which is what calculations are based on.
My home made tapered inserts are .750 long, for what it is worth. |
03-23-2021, 04:06 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 2,353
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
|
03-23-2021, 04:26 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,408
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
|
03-23-2021, 05:06 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 1,410
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
The insert I used https://www.mcmaster.com/90259A154/ has a 9/16” length. (The ID should be checked.)
|
03-23-2021, 05:11 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Quote:
Yeah, Pete .750 is what I"M searching for, but can't locate. As said the 1" is 'IFFY' long. I've measured depth of stud holes and 1" MIGHT MAKE IT, where .750 would be great. Any clue of a source ? Ok, how do you make an insert. Maybe an amateur can do this ?? BTW...this is a 1937 B block that I working. I am finding that the castings seem to be thicker than any , say, 1932 B block that I've seen. That includes the depth of the STUD holes. I'm close to 1" and no bottom thru yet ! And, I've not seem a B block without the bottoms...of at least some holes knocked thru....except this block !! |
|
03-23-2021, 06:00 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,408
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Quote:
You need a lathe. Inserts are made from 4130 bar stock. Turn the OD and thread it with a 3/8 tapered pipe thread. Do this with a single point tool and taper attachment. (NOT A DIE) Drill a tap size hole in the bar and run a class 3 tap in the hole. Part the piece off. Take a piece of 1 inch bar stock, put in lathe and drill and tap a 3/8 tapered pipe thread in one end. Use the insertion tool to screw the insert in the hole. Now machine one thread away from the top of the insert. Deburr the corners and it is done. The insertion tool is made from bar stock. Turn and thread one end to 3/8 STRAIGHT pipe thread. Mill 2 flats on the side of the tool for a wrench. Make a nut to fit the thread. This will be a jam nut. To install the insert, screw it on the insert tool and tighten the jam nut to the insert. Goop the insert with Loctite green and screw the insert in. It should be "snug". If you need a torque reading, try 15 ft. lb.. Loosen the jam nut. Back the tool out. Let sit over night before using. Hone the cylinders slightly before assembling to assure none of the inserts pushed the cylinder walls out when installing. These inserts will stand 100 ft. lb. of torque with a test tool. I never tried to pull one out with a destruction test. Not needed for a street engine but definitely on a top fuel eliminator engine. You asked though.....LOL |
|
03-23-2021, 06:59 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Hey Pete,
Yeah..... I did ask. lol I didn't expect anything less... that was informative, indeed ! You said GREEN loctite ? The sales ad with insert says RED loctite ? What brand of ‘mill’ do you recommend ? I like oatMILL. Wish Ida paid attn in metal class, eh !! |
03-23-2021, 07:27 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 1,339
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Could you use an oversize stud and forget the insert? That would be my first choice.
__________________
Ruth "Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread" |
03-23-2021, 07:34 PM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,408
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Quote:
As for a mill, the more you pay, the better it is. A Bridgeport is probably at the bottom of the scale but it will work for anything that will fit on the table. I like Pratt & Whitney because of the quality and they made lots of other neat stuff also. As far as metal class, there are plenty of those available nowdays at trade schools and they are FAR better than the ones we had. |
|
03-23-2021, 07:39 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,408
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
|
03-23-2021, 08:05 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 1,339
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Well the oversize studs Bratton's has are Grade 8. And you're installing it in the same block as an insert. So I would think it goes to say you would have to test pull your insert as well.
__________________
Ruth "Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread" |
03-23-2021, 08:09 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,408
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
|
03-24-2021, 12:23 AM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Quote:
Very helpful info ! Ill follow up with that site. Thanks |
|
03-24-2021, 12:30 AM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Quote:
Very helpful info ! Ill follow up with that site. Thanks |
|
03-24-2021, 12:52 AM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Quote:
Someone else mentioned oversize studs and Brattons. I’ll check that. Brattons is the one catalogue... I don’t have. That being said, my stud hole problem is more than a few thou oversize stud will fix. Thanks. |
|
03-24-2021, 03:37 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,304
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
You say your B block deck seems thicker than normal . English Dagenham blocks have a thicker deck by about 1/16" to avoid cracking which the Detroit blocks suffer from . Does it have any casting marks on it such as"GS" and a date .Some do some dont . The Dagenham block is very robust and not prone to cracking . The rear main setup is also different . Returning USA service men brought English cars into USA the "B" engine retro fit was common .
John in Suffolk County England . |
03-24-2021, 07:54 AM | #21 |
BANNED
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,196
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Torque is used to put the stud in tension. This allows the assembly to be made without a locking device and provides a stable basis for heat cycling. In my experience .6 is an adequate depth of threads for a 7/16th NC stud.
Use a magnetic base drill (rent one) to insure the pilot hole for the insert is square to the deck. Drilling by hand can result in an offset pilot hole, placing two forces on the stud when tensioned. I prefer the integrity of a timesert and use anaerobic sealant on installation (loctite). Anaerobic means in the absence of air it cures, given the weakness and ductility of ford grey iron castings the sealant actually helps support the assembly by filling any void as well as locking it. |
03-25-2021, 11:40 PM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Quote:
Thanks for your input ! Very helpful. I’ll check on timesert for comparative detail with others I’ve studied. Don’t know of magnetic base drill. Sounds good idea. I am terrible at drilling straight. With shakes and arithritis hands, that aint happening. That wont keep me from trying. BTW - Im familiar with ‘anaerobic’ .. sealant. But why not just use 2 part epoxy of some sort ? Especially , if hru to water ? Last edited by hardtimes; 03-26-2021 at 12:03 AM. Reason: Xxxxx |
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
03-26-2021, 12:14 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 130
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Hardtimes, To get your holes straight just use a cylinder head. Mark the holes you want to drill out for inserts on the head with chalk, I used heli-coils, and use the proper drill for the insert. Use three or four studs to hold the head on and drill away. works every time. Rick.
|
03-26-2021, 10:29 AM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 1,339
|
Re: Head stud repair with insert...Q
Quote:
https://www.brattons.com/over-size-t...long-stud.html
__________________
Ruth "Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread" Last edited by Ruth; 03-26-2021 at 10:39 AM. |
|
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|