Pertronix Nightmare

[backrodebob]

Read a lot of pros and cons about Pertronix, had to see for myself. 1st one come in look like someone tried to install , wires cut! sent it back!! 2nd one installed NO SPARK! contacted customer service, this guy I talked to is in the wrong business! pretty much said I didn’t know what I was doing, that I installed it wrong, finally got him to email me how to bench test the unit. needless to say the unit tested bad. they say the third time’s the charm, not in this case! When it came in I benched tested it and it test good, finally!! Installed and it fired up, ran for about 5 minutes then died??? sent it back and back and staying with “POINTS”

[50fordcoupeman]

Have had perfect luck with two sets...............

[koates]

Pertronix units are very reliable on 12 volt cars. What car are you running it on and what voltage? Ignition coil must be a match for the Pertronix unit. If the coil pulls to much primary current then the Pertronix unit could be damaged. I think you have other issues apart from the Pertronix unit. Regards, Kevin.

[chuck stevens]

I have never been left along the road with a set of points!!!

[millersgarage]

Never had an issue with Pertronix

[Ford Freak]

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Over the yrs. I have had Pertronix in a half dozen various cars w/no problems.
They were all 12 volt, used correct Pertronix coil, & were the "Igniter 2" model. - F F

[325w]

Used one in a GM distributor. Used the coil they said. Coil got so hot you couldn’t touch it. Contacted GMC buba. He told me to use a ballast resistor. Car was sold and still doing fine.

[chap52]

Ran Petronix in my 52 truck(12 vv-t) for 15 years and only had one "suspected" issue. Called them and the guy I spoke with helped me zero in on the real problem and all went well fo the next 14 years... Just like buying bananas some look good on the outside and then.... Chap

[Frank Miller]

Originally Posted by chuck stevens

I have never been left along the road with a set of points!!!

Tell me how you get that condenser going. Why I switched. Brand new echlin completely quit on me. Good thing I was home.


I was never a fan of pertronix until I started getting bad condensers. Figure if I had to run questionable stuff go with something that does not need adjusting.

[Charlie ny]

Re: chevy dists converted to 8BA....any customers who wish electronic ign over pts & cond I request they order the Pert and forward it to me so the warranty is in their name.
I strongly recommend the HALL effect version the reads the breaker cam lobes and
not the unit that uses a relucter ring. I use the NAPA coil 12v IC 14 2.8 ohm.
Charlie ny

[Veeder]

I stronfly suggest points especially if you want to use the stock coil. The Dwell period with a pertronix unit is about 50/50 on a helmet distributor.
I actually believe the reason they want you to use the ignitor coil (especially with 6 volt systems) I'd because of the dwell period.

But as always I could be wrong but I had one unit fail and have gone back to points.

Bob l

[38bill]

Just wondering what are you guys running for plug wires?

[backrodebob]

everything was installed according to there tech department?? what else can I say!

[tubman]

Originally Posted by 38bill

Just wondering what are you guys running for plug wires?

Packard 440 and Rajah spark plug terminals (from "The Brillman Co.").

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by 38bill

Just wondering what are you guys running for plug wires?

With Pertronix ignition on an 8BA, 7mm Spiral wound wire to help prevent radio interference to the electronics as per Pertronix.

[Ronnieroadster]

Pertronix has worked perfectly in every one of my cars for years. Pertronix conversions are used in the many vintage engines we run that have set numerous Land Speed Records.
Many customers have also had excellent success with the Pertronix conversions. HOWEVER the Pertronix unit will die if there's a short in the cars wiring. Its shocking your so unsuccessful with the conversion.
Ronnieroadster

[1948F-1Pickup]

Pertronix have the same reliability issues they had 30 years ago
when they were called PerLux. Solid state electronic stuff doesn't like
intense searing heat, like what you find inside a distributor. Electronic devices
like good grounds and you may not have good ones with a distributor.
Those are my basic issues with Pertronix.

To those that have had good fortune with their stuff I say good for you.
My experience has not been that positive.

[Bob T]

No problems in three different cars. One is over 25 years old

[drolston]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

With Pertronix ignition on an 8BA, 7mm Spiral wound wire to help prevent radio interference to the electronics as per Pertronix.

Fried my Petronix while troubleshooting that turned out to be bad spiral wound ignition wires. I went back to points and copper ignition wires. Tubman condenser to insure against that crap shoot of reliability. The all copper wires setup completely jammed my satellite radio. Switched out the one foot coil to distributor high tension cable to spiral and got my radio back. Evidently it does not take much length of spiral wound to suppress the static. Runs great.

[tubman]

I had the same experience. Had ignition interference in the radio with all Packard 440. Replaced the coil wire with suppression wire and problem solved. You wouldn't think it would have made that much difference, but it did.

[ct1932ford]

Have been running Pertronix for nine years in my roadster. Runs like a swiss clock.
Working on a new coupe now with some running issues I have not solved yet. I need Ronnieroadster! It may be next!

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by ct1932ford

Have been running Pertronix for nine years in my roadster. Runs like a swiss clock.
Working on a new coupe now with some running issues I have not solved yet. I need Ronnieroadster! It may be next!

A road trip in the future with the ARDUN powered service car looking forward to it. See you Sunday at the swap meet.
Ronnieroadster

[1931 flamingo]

Ronnie's the man ! ! !
Paul in CT

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Ronnie's the man ! ! !
Paul in CT

That he is.

[fordor41]

I had Pertronix in my '41 forever. after a valve job it idled like crap. thought it was ignition
I had a spare pertronix and swapped it out and nothing. went back to my original and ok but lousy idle. contacted pertronix and they said send them back. a week or so later I received 2 new ignitor 1's. turns out my coil was way out of range for their ignition. I think my coil slowly went south but not enough to mess up the ignition but when I installed the spare it immediately burned out. other than that I've had great luck with Pertronix. FYI, the problem was a $7 PCV!

[tubman]

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Originally Posted by fordor41

I had Pertronix in my '41 forever. after a valve job it idled like crap. thought it was ignition
I had a spare pertronix and swapped it out and nothing. went back to my original and ok but lousy idle. contacted pertronix and they said send them back. a week or so later I received 2 new ignitor 1's. turns out my coil was way out of range for their ignition. I think my coil slowly went south but not enough to mess up the ignition but when I installed the spare it immediately burned out. other than that I've had great luck with Pertronix. FYI, the problem was a $7 PCV!

PCV valve? I thought it was the coil. Please clarify.

[fordor41]

my crappy PVC gave me a bad idle. after I installed the new Pertronix ignition with a good coil, idle was still bad. then I discovered the PCV was bad. BTW, SBF in my '41.

[tubman]

Wow! Interesting; I never heard of anything like that. It's good to know that a bad PCV valve can cause this kind of problem.

[fordor41]

Originally Posted by tubman

Wow! Interesting; I never heard of anything like that. It's good to know that a bad PCV valve can cause this kind of problem.

I'll try again. had a valve job done and engine ran good on the street but idled terrible. Changed plugs, wires, dist, carb, disconnected all vac from engine and still no good. That's when I changed the Pertronix ign. and ended up with a bad coil/ign. after getting ign and coil straight I discovered PCV was stuck in open
position. After changing the PCV, idle smoothed out, vac jumped up and got rid of "popping" out the exhaust

[tubman]

Thanks for the explanation; you learn something new everyday.

[JMFL36]

I recently converted my '54 Mercury 6V positive ground car to PerTronix ignition and coil. Car is now much easier to start and runs great.

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by fordor41

I'll try again. had a valve job done and engine ran good on the street but idled terrible. Changed plugs, wires, dist, carb, disconnected all vac from engine and still no good. That's when I changed the Pertronix ign. and ended up with a bad coil/ign. after getting ign and coil straight I discovered PCV was stuck in open
position. After changing the PCV, idle smoothed out, vac jumped up and got rid of "popping" out the exhaust

The pintle in the PCV must have been stuck or gone. It's supposed to limit flow at idle.

[fordor41]

What ever was wrong, a new PCV solved my problem. Don't always believe if you shake a PCV and it rattles it is OK. My PCV rattled but was either in open position or close to open so my vac was low but steady. That's why I concentrated on anything that would effect all cylinders, to cause the low vac condition

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

A flathead requires a "balanced" ignition system . Correct distributor , point, condensor cap rotor and ignition cables .
One wrong part and the system will fail . ( usually a incorrect ignition coil) do some reasearch and then use the best you can buy and it will work forever !!!!!

[backrodebob]

coil primary 1.6 secondary 11.2

[backrodebob]

Originally Posted by tubman

PCV valve? I thought it was the coil. Please clarify.

I replaced that 3 mo. ago

[Lawrie]

This is a long shoot, I have asked petronox if the unit will trigger an MSD street fire unit , they said yes it will ,so have worded one.
Has any one done this, and its not for the 33 or 34 its for a customers rod.
Lawrie

[aussie merc]

just curious if you run an alternator or generator Mallory use to supply a little red box called a power cell they said fitment was optional on alternator but mandatory with generator due to the fact that gen voltage regs are mechanical and therefore create micro spikes when they work and their electronics don't like it

[Lawrie]

Car has an alternator fitted and is 12 v
Lawrie

[koates]

backrodebob, you state that your coil primary resistance is 1.6 ohms. In that case it should be used with a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor in series with the coil primary winding. Without the ballast resistor your coil primary current draw would be about 8 amps which is way to high for your Pertronix unit to handle and it is blowing up. The coil primary current draw should be only about 3 or 4 amps. Very important to understand how all these components work together. YOU CANT JUST GUESS HERE, EVERYTHING HAS TO BE CORRECT. I have had several pertronix units working in cars for over 30 years. Regards, Kevin.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

This is a long shoot, I have asked petronox if the unit will trigger an MSD street fire unit , they said yes it will ,so have worded one.
Has any one done this, and its not for the 33 or 34 its for a customers rod.
Lawrie

Have not, as MSD hadn't even thought up the Street Fire piece 20+ years ago but I did use an original Pertronix 1 (Perlux) to trigger some of the older Jacobs boxes.
Heat and improper grounding are the slow killers of the 1st gen units.
Also, on the gen 1 units, if the item is all by itself, don't leave the ignition on with the engine not running.....

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

This is a long shoot, I have asked petronox if the unit will trigger an MSD street fire unit , they said yes it will ,so have worded one.
Has any one done this, and its not for the 33 or 34 its for a customers rod.
Lawrie

Lawrie I'm confused as to why anyone would want to use the Pertronix with anything other than a Pertronix item. The customer should be guided to using the Pertronix Second Strike unit. Its superior to anything MSD has to offer.
To answer a question one would like to ask yes I use the Second Strike and have had no failures. I cannot say the same for anything MSD related since I have had many failures with MSD items. Since going complexly with Pertronix many years ago the failures have stoped.
Ronnieroadster

[Lawrie]

Ronnie, thanks for that info,
this is on a customers car, and he had the msd street fire and a e fire distributor, the setup would only fire 5 cyls, I have found the fault and at least got it to run using the old MSD distributor from my dragsters that can't stay on the car, I never knew there was a u nit like you mentioned and will look that up. thanks

[richard crow]

the orignal system works great why look for truble

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

Ronnie, thanks for that info,
this is on a customers car, and he had the msd street fire and a e fire distributor, the setup would only fire 5 cyls, I have found the fault and at least got it to run using the old MSD distributor from my dragsters that can't stay on the car, I never knew there was a u nit like you mentioned and will look that up. thanks

Your Welcome Lawrie. I use the Second Strike with great success on my race car also so far with the Pertronix ignition and Second Strike we have set 8 records the top speed with the flathead over 219 MPH the speed with the ARDUN is over 225 MPH. Their parts work perfectly.
Ronnieroadster

[Lawrie]

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Ronnie, the set up was on a 221 ci flathead with a 471 and 3 x 97 on it, so I need to replace the 471 with a 3 carb manifold , I have it temp going with my spare manifold with a Big 97 fitted, and the MSD from the dragsters at least now it runs but has detonation evidence on some plugs and leaking head gaskets, so heads will be off this arvo.
I have made an enquiry re the petronix set up.
Lawrie

[Holeshot]

Originally Posted by richard crow

the orignal system works great why look for truble

Exactly

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by richard crow

the orignal system works great why look for truble

Some times technology is a good thing especially when your running a modified combination. When the correct improved parts are used there's no trouble at all.
Ronnieroadster

[Bored&Stroked]

The stock ignition system works great on a stock engine - or almost any street build (depending on RPMs). If they're setup with high quality components, they will run up to the RPM limits that most hot-rodders on the street will hit.

When you start getting into much higher RPM builds, race engines, etc. - there are improved ignitions that can take the RPM, have high spark energy, etc.. I run mostly magnetos on most of my race style engines as well as the MSD ProGrid and a MSD distributor on some setups. I have not had issues with my MSD ignitions - other than one bad coil.

I also run a MSD 20 Amp ProMag on one of my race engines (blown alcohol) and it makes a difference when you're trying to burn a lot of fuel under boost.

[Nailhead Jeff]

I have had terrible issues with pertronix products. I gained 17 rear wheel HP going back to points on a big block Chevy in a Camaro. Sent ignitor back to pertronix and it tested fine. Most will work fine on a distributor tester, put them in an engine firing a plug and they won't hold steady timing. That variation in timing is costing you power.

[Crankster]

Was that an "original recipe" Ignitor, or was it one of those fancy pants variable dwell & rev limited variants?

The Ignitor I is about as simple as it gets and the particular one I always recommend to people who just want to get away from points & condenser ignition for whatever reason. For racing stuff, well I dunno that's outta my wheelhouse.

It's kind of interesting if you think about it - the Hall effect sensor is today about as far removed or obsolete as points were/are, compared to where electronics are today. Cadillac introduced contact points in 1910, the Hall sensor (via IC) about 1960.

The disadvantages with a simple electronic "switch" (that's all a Hall effect sensor is) would be the same as ignition points or mechanical switching - a fixed dwell period that it is selected as a compromise. The same unit I bought in 1997 has worked fine for thousands of miles up till today. I know now points can be made to work fine obviously, but back then I didn't understand that, couldn't figure out that a loosey goosey junkbox worn out distributor will never hold the dwell, and on a Y-Block, the distributor is way back against the firewall. My back started to protest! And I fell for the "never change points again!" advertising.

It would be interesting to see some dyno tests (or emissions) with the Ignitor I versus contact points in comparison, it would be tough for me to believe the electronic modules would perform any worse in that situation.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by Crankster

The disadvantages with a simple electronic "switch" (that's all a Hall effect sensor is) would be the same as ignition points or mechanical switching - a fixed dwell period that it is selected as a compromise.

Hall effect items are subject to greater instability in the hot environment inside the distributor but I have no data to substantiate. By comparison the points are rock steady in heat but suffer dwell difference over time due to rubbing block wear, contact erosion and point bounce..... if any real rpm is involved. And then there's the condensor, if there's one inside the distributor. Those aren't completely impervious to heat.

Originally Posted by Crankster

It would be interesting to see some dyno tests (or emissions) with the Ignitor I versus contact points in comparison, it would be tough for me to believe the electronic modules would perform any worse in that situation.

I've never seen anything substantial. The current Executive Order that the Pertronix 1 is under is pretty "dumbed down" as far as test results. The original name used was Perlux and that one has a greater amount of data available from ARB's testing back in the 70's-

https://arb.parts/Executive-Order/D-57.pdf

[Crankster]

Thanks for that link. That's about the coolest thing I've seen all day, though it's still early yet.

[hotrodart]

Pertronix has been beat to death several times on this forum (and on HAMB)......Most failures have been traced to improper installation/incompatible coils.



I have used the P-1 version for over 25 years on the 327/375 (Rochester FI) engine in my '40 coupe with zero issues. My reason for ditching the dual points was bounce and premature wear at high RPMs.



My son's 302 SBC off-road Trans-America engine has used a P-II version since they were offered for sale, without any issues. It has a Corvette dual point fully mechanical distributor converted to Pertronix and functions very well up to 7500 RPM.


I have found both versions to be very stable through the RPM range, and reliable.

[deuce_roadster]

I think the 12 v guys with no problems probably have an alternator on the engine. My limited understanding is that the Pertronix systems don't like the voltage variance a generator puts out compared to an alternator. Maybe that issue has been addressed.

[hotrodart]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I think the 12 v guys with no problems probably have an alternator on the engine. My limited understanding is that the Pertronix systems don't like the voltage variance a generator puts out compared to an alternator. Maybe that issue has been addressed.

One data point on 6 volt units.....my brother has an early version on his '36 Ford, 6 volts w/generator........always starts immediately, never any issues.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I think the 12 v guys with no problems probably have an alternator on the engine. My limited understanding is that the Pertronix systems don't like the voltage variance a generator puts out compared to an alternator. Maybe that issue has been addressed.

Having personally converted a lot of 6 volt distributers to Pertroxix I can say a generator will not cause a failure. Failures experienced are what others have written leave the ignition on with out starting, incorrect coil or ignition wires.

The Pertronix system is so simple to use and extremely reliable and also responsible for incredibly fast speeds by many users.
Ronnieroadster

[aussie merc]

This all seems to be coming back to an underlying issue that 1 instructions issued by the supplier are not specific enough in the cans and cants 2 people being people tend to think installation instructions are only the suppliers opinion 3 most of us dont under stand fully how some of these so call advances in technology actually work and their limitations also i havent heard of any supplier listing a complete kit [ignition unit any filters required coil and lead sets this would remove a large portion of what seems to be common errors

[21stud]

Originally Posted by aussie merc

just curious if you run an alternator or generator Mallory use to supply a little red box called a power cell they said fitment was optional on alternator but mandatory with generator due to the fact that gen voltage regs are mechanical and therefore create micro spikes when they work and their electronics don't like it

Interesting, do you have part number or instructions about this power cell? I'd like to get more info about this please?

[aussie merc]

21Stud your looking for Mallory 611 power cell or mallory power cell [active filter] part no 29531 hope this helps

[solidaxle]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Having personally converted a lot of 6 volt distributers to Pertroxix I can say a generator will not cause a failure. Failures experienced are what others have written leave the ignition on with out starting, incorrect coil or ignition wires.

The Pertronix system is so simple to use and extremely reliable and also responsible for incredibly fast speeds by many users.
Ronnieroadster

I concur with Ronnieroadster, I have 6volt system with a generator, non-solid wires with a Mallory best coil. The Pertronix has been working flawlessly. The only time I had a problem was my fault, I left the headlights on with the car not running and ran down the battery, pushing the car and popping the clutch would not start the car. I believe the voltage was to low to fire up the electronics.

[Ron_r1959]

Originally Posted by backrodebob

Read a lot of pros and cons about Pertronix, had to see for myself. 1st one come in look like someone tried to install , wires cut! sent it back!! 2nd one installed NO SPARK! contacted customer service, this guy I talked to is in the wrong business! pretty much said I didn’t know what I was doing, that I installed it wrong, finally got him to email me how to bench test the unit. needless to say the unit tested bad. they say the third time’s the charm, not in this case! When it came in I benched tested it and it test good, finally!! Installed and it fired up, ran for about 5 minutes then died??? sent it back and back and staying with “POINTS”

You do have to be very careful on your choice of negative and positive ground units and also on how you wire the coil. You also have to run the correct coil with them, I haven't had experience with the older cars, but I have used them on the tractors and had pretty good luck. I have heard they don't work well with the early 59AB v-8 engines however due to the heat from the radiator.

[Mart]

Call me old fashioned but you never hear anybody say Ford crab stock ignition nightmare.
I'll get my coat.

[Mart]

Call me old fashioned but you never hear anybody say Ford crab stock ignition nightmare.
I'll get my coat.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by aussie merc

This all seems to be coming back to an underlying issue that 1 instructions issued by the supplier are not specific enough in the cans and cants 2 people being people tend to think installation instructions are only the suppliers opinion 3 most of us dont under stand fully how some of these so call advances in technology actually work and their limitations also i havent heard of any supplier listing a complete kit [ignition unit any filters required coil and lead sets this would remove a large portion of what seems to be common errors

Your post got me thinking-
I'm wondering if some of the issues may come down to something lacking in Pertronix instructions. I re-read both the old Perlux and the Pertronix 1 instructions and nothing is mentioned that I saw of insuring the unit is solidly grounded. Wonder if that plays into it? I personally don't know and don't care because I no longer use them, but it's a curiosity.

[Masot]

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perfect

[Masot]

in Mallory

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Mart

Call me old fashioned but you never hear anybody say Ford crab stock ignition nightmare.
I'll get my coat.

I hear it all the time. Guys on here complain a lot about the quality of new points, condensers, coils. That’s why I gave up on the stock points and went 6v Pertronix crab. Pertronix customer service has been great the several times I called them. My problems I was troubleshooting were never the fault of the Pertronix units or coils. Use what they recommend. It’s been flawless for me for almost 10 years.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Fritz

I hear it all the time. Guys on here complain a lot about the quality of new points, condensers, coils. That’s why I gave up on the stock points and went 6v Pertronix crab. Pertronix customer service has been great the several times I called them. My problems I was troubleshooting were never the fault of the Pertronix units or coils. Use what they recommend. It’s been flawless for me for almost 10 years.

I find this to be an interesting statement. Never, in my over 60 years of running Ford flatheads (or other makes and models) with standard points ignition, have I ever had to call anyone about them.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by tubman

I find this to be an interesting statement. Never, in my over 60 years of running Ford flatheads (or other makes and models) with standard points ignition, have I ever had to call anyone about them.

Could be because your just the best at everything you? LMAO

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by tubman

I find this to be an interesting statement. Never, in my over 60 years of running Ford flatheads (or other makes and models) with standard points ignition, have I ever had to call anyone about them.

You’ve never asked anyone a question about Ford ignitions?

Calling Pertronix customer service is the same as posting a question on this forum. It’s an attempt to learn about something unfamiliar to you. I wasn’t blessed with the inherent knowledge of antique Ford engineering, so I have to ask questions to figure it out.

[Crankster]

Maybe something got lost in the translation here. Nobody called Ford Motor Co. when they had basic ignition problems back in the day. Fritz however, was just pointing out that none of the problems he was troubleshooting were ever actually attributed to the Ignitor system itself. That's how I read that, anyway.

After following along with lots of automotive discussion forums it's obvious that people often install the Ignitor system because the contact point ignition system is a bridge too far for them in the first place. But the Ignitor point replacement also has its own lore and rituals to be followed, and that's the crux of the matter. Nobody can be bothered to "RTFM", regardless.