When were insert bearing first available for Model As?

[johnbuckley]

Out of interest, does anyone know when insert bearings were first available for Model A engine rebuilds.

[johnneilson]

Hmm, maybe not what you are looking for,
But some of the bearings used are from 1943 models of cars/trucks.
Of course those are hard to find but several aftermarket suppliers have had custom runs made for them.
Maybe Brett can offer more of the timeline of when babbit work slowed down and inserts become more active.

John

[Flathead]

I think AER inserts were the first specific inserts for the A. Before that inserts from other engines with similar shaft sizes were adapted for use in the A. Others may have more info.

[alexiskai]

H&H was advertising insert conversions in 1978, that's the earliest reference I've found so far.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by johnneilson

Hmm, maybe not what you are looking for,
But some of the bearings used are from 1943 models of cars/trucks.
Of course those are hard to find but several aftermarket suppliers have had custom runs made for them.
Maybe Brett can offer more of the timeline of when babbit work slowed down and inserts become more active.

John

I have some factory prints back in 1936 that showed Model-A engines with A-6211-R insert bearings. (See attached images)

Ford manufactured the G28T engine in the 1940s & 1950s that also used insert shells, so insert bearings in Model-As back in the 1970s was not all that new.

As far as conversions, I remember back in the early 1970s that insert conversions were being done on Model-B engine with some frequency. Back then, Model-A hobbyists that wanted more power/speed used a Model-B engine in their A because they had a better camshaft, higher compression, and were thought to be more reliable. Back then, SB Chevrolet connecting rod bearing inserts were used by most. I know that guys in our club were using Continental and Triumph engine bearings for Model-A however most guys felt the lack of oil pressure was detrimental. Rich Falluca was definitely the one that made Model-A insert bearings a household name. I am attaching an old list of bearings that were often used to convert engines. Just remember this list was not all-inclusive, and now many of those are obsolete bearings..
.

[MrBruce]

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Long before Rich (AER) brought true inserts in I was sending bearings to customers who were inserting bearings for years. They were just under the radar!
I was with Clevite for 26 years and so they were doing it at specialty shops all that time

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by MrBruce

Long before Rich (AER) brought true inserts in I was sending bearings to customers who were inserting bearings for years. They were just under the radar!
I was with Clevite for 26 years and so they were doing it at specialty shops all that time

Were they really under the radar? I think many of us 50 years ago knew it was being done by various hobbyists and shops, but it really was not that widely accepted at that time. Also at that time, the published focus of both national clubs was promoting the restoration of the 1928-1931 Ford Model-A as it was originally produced. Therefore you did not have social media or internet forums promoting inserts, nor the club magazine. Again, when you look at the list I attached above with all of the various bearings that were being used, there were likely bearings that you were sending for a specific application that were being substituted for use in a Model-A/B application.

[denis4x4]

Inserts on my A are Kabota tractor bearings.

[BrianH]

H&H did my conversion in 1984. It has been a good running engine all these years.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Also at that time, the published focus of both national clubs was promoting the restoration of the 1928-1931 Ford Model-A as it was originally produced. Therefore you did not have social media or internet forums promoting inserts, nor the club magazine.

Yeah, there's an early mention in a 1961 Restorer issue – a guy wrote to the Wanted section asking if anyone had information on how to do insert bearing conversions. But all of the articles are strictly Babbitt-only. They don't even acknowledge that insert engines exist until decades later.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Yeah, there's an early mention in a 1961 Restorer issue – a guy wrote to the Wanted section asking if anyone had information on how to do insert bearing conversions. But all of the articles are strictly Babbitt-only. They don't even acknowledge that insert engines exist until decades later.

Colin, things have definitely changed as far as the National Club's direction and Mission statement. Again, some 50 years ago both of the clubs promoted authenticity and for their membership to actually restore the car.

[lrf]

Back in the days, say pre-1990s, there were many people and businesses that knew the correct way to babbitt engines. It's a lost art with very few who have the knowledge to babbitt correctly. So to keep an engine running you have to revert to insert bearings. I'm still lucky enough to be running babbitt but who knows what the future will bring.

[31Cabriolet68-C]

Young Patrick Musante here in S/W Connecticut knows...
He learned babbitt from his father, studied automotive restoration at McPherson College, and sources his babbitt to exact Ford specs.
He did a fantastic job on my Cabriolet, (it drives like a brand-new Model A) and has given clinics on engine/rear-end/steering/brake-system rebuilding for the local A clubs...
And he'll be around for the long haul: I'm almost positive he's not much over thirty...
(BYW, this is not meant as an advert, just my experience with a great knowledgeable young guy).
TallyHo

[Dodge]

Great to see some young talented blood getting into the hobby, we need this badly.

[alexiskai]

Not just a hobbyist, he’s a builder.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php...ibextid=LQQJ4d

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by lrf

Back in the days, say pre-1990s, there were many people and businesses that knew the correct way to babbitt engines. It's a lost art with very few who have the knowledge to babbitt correctly. So to keep an engine running you have to revert to insert bearings. I'm still lucky enough to be running babbitt but who knows what the future will bring.

I believe the mindset of it being a "lost art" is really more of a myth than anything. While granted, some 75 years ago there was a small automotive machine shop in every town that had the capability of casting bearings, there is still quite a few rebuilders doing quality Babbitt bearing work. Patrick's name was mentioned above and he is young and doing well. My son who is in his 20s has learned the craft, and there are many other 'youngsters' that are also casting (Herm Kohnke's son John, Matt Temple and his son, et/al) , so there really is not a shortage of qualified bearing pourers, -or even young bearing pourers.

One other comment, IMO the technology and the passing of information is much more prevalent in this age for two reasons. First, this generation is much more willing to pass on information (-and pass on correct information) and the internet has provided a platform for sharing info.

[Kurt in NJ]

The Riley secrets of speed article from 1931( how to make a 100 mph A) talks of making a bronze insert for the upper center main.
The internet has made it easier to fine information on babbitting, when I first started learning there was the KRW method, and a model A magazine article and i harassed every engine builder at hershey with questions, then had to sift through all the conflicting methods.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

One other comment, IMO the technology and the passing of information is much more prevalent in this age for two reasons. First, this generation is much more willing to pass on information (-and pass on correct information) and the internet has provided a platform for sharing info.

Not sure if I qualify as a member of the young'uns, but in my experience, one thing that's different is that we were taught both that there is a correct solution, as opposed to just a collection of traditional practices, and that you can find out the correct solution with sufficient research. Looking through back issues of the Restorer, you really get the sense that everyone was just doing the best they could, trying to find methods that worked well enough. And of course the judging standards for restoration were primitive/nonexistent for many aspects of the car.

[Bigsnapper43]

In the early /70's we had a member with a 1931 roadster that he claimed to be a former LA police car. He said it had inserts from the 1940s. This gent was in his late 80s at this time. So this procedure is not new.