Again?! this time juddering at a stop

[Talkwrench]

Its been months since replacing the center bearing and all has been fine, but just lately and only every now and then I get a juddering[?] just before the car stops.. WTF?! Anyway I cant pin point what it is. Ive looked down as its happening and my vacuum gauge is rock steady, Ive coasted, nothing, foot has been on the brake , nothing, I cant hear anything ..? I thought it might be a brake shoe dragging but I can pull away no problem, All seems normal when running, only just in that last two - three seconds before it stops.. The only thing Ive done recently is swapped to radial tyres [ 15x6 F100 rims]
Ideas guys?

[Brian]

out of round brake drum?

[Tinker]

At idle and a great vacuum, it might be in your "head". But whom knows. Maybe the front end is loose or... all guesses. How is your kingpins to steering.

[Talkwrench]

Originally Posted by Brian

out of round brake drum?

I think I would feel that throughout all the braking..? The juddering when I can feel it can be non existent to quite bad ..

Kingpins do have ware but not bad.. it wouldn't cause that type of juddering though, and why sometimes and not all the time?

[Tinker]

Whom knows... But not engine though right?

[Phil Gillespie]

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Long shot, check all wheel nuts are tight since wheels have recently been off.
Fault Finding 101; First look at what you have recently played with.
Phil NZ

[54vicky]

not being smart never heard the expression juddering is it an aussie expression.I take it to mean shuddering but wondering is all

[19Fordy]

Did you install an aftermarket center bearing or NOS? Think back very carefully and try to recall exactly what you did on the installation.

Are all the nuts and bolts tight?
Are transmission and motor mounts tight?
Do you have "anti chatter rods?"

Does it happen "just before the car stops" with your foot on the brake pedal?

Does it happen when rear wheels are off the ground when on jack stands?

The loose wheel nut theory sounds very possible. Check that first.

Check the tightness of all the nuts and bolts you removed to replace the center bearing, if possible.

Pull rear drums and check wheel bearings etc.

Are all the rear radius rod nuts and bolts tight?

[Als48]

How about the clutch? Have you had problems with it engaging smoothly. I guess it's possible that it is not releasing smoothly. Reverse of when it shudders upon engagement. Never heard of it though, even tho I have had clutches stick, but usually after sitting.

Al Hook

[solidaxle]

Originally Posted by Phil Gillespie

Long shot, check all wheel nuts are tight since wheels have recently been off.
Fault Finding 109; First look at what you have recently played with.
Phil NZ

Along with the lugs, maybe a bent wheel?

[flatford8]

Oil or grease on a brake shoe?.....Mark

[Lawson Cox]

Grimlins.

[Aarongriffey]

Mechanical brakes? Hydraulic?
Car? Truck? Motor bike? Push scooter? Farm tractor??.
IF they’re mechanical try disconnecting the pull rod or cable from one wheel at time and trying it.
Can you stop the vehicle with the hand brake. Feel anything?
Wear in the king pins usually doesn’t cause a shudder or a judder.

[Talkwrench]

Originally Posted by 54vicky

not being smart never heard the expression juddering is it an aussie expression.I take it to mean shuddering but wondering is all

Shuddering will do [B]

35 pickup . Juice brakes

clutch operates as per normal was all apart about two years ago

wheels are straight I spun them up before I fitted the tyres

feels like the engine stalling and shuddering, however the vacuum gauge doesn't move , Alt light doesn't come on etc .

the center bearing is NOS was a prick to get in. I did had to tap the torque tube when putting it back together, didnt quite slide over the shaft. I did check after and all spun freely .. I know that shouldn't of happened at all ..

Are all the nuts and bolts tight? yes
Are transmission and motor mounts tight? yes
Do you have "anti chatter rods?" yes .. they where loose

Does it happen "just before the car stops" with your foot on the brake pedal? yes [and not heavy ]

Does it happen when rear wheels are off the ground when on jack stands? dont know

The loose wheel nut theory sounds very possible. Check that first. I torque them so ok

Check the tightness of all the nuts and bolts you removed to replace the center bearing, if possible. I'll check but have no doubts they're good

Pull rear drums and check wheel bearings etc. Jacked up rear and Ive got a random clicking - tick noise when turning both wheels.. aghh so that something, if it gets louder and more constant it will be similar to the center bearing gone again

Are all the rear radius rod nuts and bolts tight? yes

I went for a short trip after tightening the steady rods and it didn't do it , however its random and may take a longer trip..

[Talkwrench]

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

Grimlins.

Well Lawson it is 2020, god knows it hasn't been good and anything is possible. I have not been anywhere near water , mmm one of my dogs is called Gizmo...

[solidaxle]

"feels like the engine stalling and shuddering, however the vacuum gauge doesn't move , Alt light doesn't come on etc ."


You need to distinguish if it's the motor or something else and go from there.

Are you loosing RPMS ?

[51woodie]

My '46 Coupe has done the same "juddering" on rare occasions. It happened when I was moving ahead slowly on a slight incline, while feathering the clutch. Again, it rarely happens, but it sure shakes the car and attracts attention to anyone around. It stops when I completely disengage the clutch. I don't have anti chatter rods, motor mounts are new and tight, and the clutch operates smoothly with the correct travel and adjustment. As it is a rare occasion, I'm not too worried about it.

Juddering = Jerking + Shuddering

[deuce_roadster]

My vote is something due to the clutch or clutch linkage. It sounds like what happens when you don't push in the clutch as you come to a stop. Like after driving an automatic and forgetting you are in a stick vehicle.

[19Fordy]

This may be way off track but I had a similar situtation with a 1992 vehicle when I applied the brakes.

Turned out one of the new rear brake drums was out of balance. New drum installed and
problem went away.

[Lawrie]

Rob, my 28 ccpu had a huge shudder when cold coming down our drive,sometimes I thought it would snap a stub axle or something, I put up with it for a month or so, as it was right when I next applied the brakes, stripped the front brakes and it had grease on the linings,cleaned it with brake clean and it’s now as right as.
Lawrie

[Talkwrench]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

My vote is something due to the clutch or clutch linkage. It sounds like what happens when you don't push in the clutch as you come to a stop. Like after driving an automatic and forgetting you are in a stick vehicle.

Yes that is a good description and does feel like that . Sometimes heavy sometimes you hardly feel it, more like a shudder than a big jerky motion.

I'll be very surprised if it is anything to do with the clutch I had all that apart, checked greased etc because I did the trans again, when I replaced the center bearing.

As far as the brakes go, I doubt it as it would do it constant and it will happen when I have my foot lightly on the brake, as you back off coming to a stop. Eventually I'll be pulling the drums so we'll find out..

I have a strange feeling its the center bearing

[deuce_roadster]

Maybe the collar the TO bearing is on is hanging up on the trans front bearing retainer and keeping the clutch engaged somewhat, sometimes more then others. What happens when you stop the car with the brakes and keep your clutch pedal to the floor?
A friend with a Nash had a similar thing going on and one of the levers on the pressure plate had a crack in it and made the clutch drag. He brought the PP over to me and set it on my bench and I told him " I can see the problem from here!" (we were 30 feet away) one lever was about 1/4" lower then the other 2.

[Talkwrench]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Maybe the collar the TO bearing is on is hanging up on the trans front bearing retainer and keeping the clutch engaged somewhat, sometimes more then others. What happens when you stop the car with the brakes and keep your clutch pedal to the floor?
A friend with a Nash had a similar thing going on and one of the levers on the pressure plate had a crack in it and made the clutch drag. He brought the PP over to me and set it on my bench and I told him " I can see the problem from here!" (we were 30 feet away) one lever was about 1/4" lower then the other 2.

I did think of that.. The hub I swapped over was and old original one. The T/O bearing {National} did not fit the hub that was on it , just slipped on, so swapped . I made sure the forks engaged the hub together , slide , grease etc.. If the return spring has broken or slipped off I wonder if that would do it..?
If I have my foot on the clutch stopped , all good nothing happens.
Clutch does have a little - usual shudder if you're not careful with it, ok changing gear etc.

[Talkwrench]

Well it caught me off guard this morning. I drove to work all ok , may have done it once hardly noticeable , I detected a very slight vibration at speed, might be the new bigger wheels? Anyway as I pulled into the car park very, very slowly I coasted as I was about to reverse into the bay, Im sure I was in neutral almost no pressure on the brake and it did it and as bad as ever, very slow for a big shuddering... Again I didnt see a drop in vacuum , revs or the Alt light come on. It was so slow Im doubting the center bearing flying around..? Something to do with the clutch..?

[cadillac512]

Think it could be the U-joint?

[Talkwrench]

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Originally Posted by cadillac512

Think it could be the U-joint?

Its unlikely, The heavy shuddering this morning was at such a low speed and Im sure I was in neutral .. Im not getting any other indications like clunking or bad shuddering on take off etc.

[54vicky]

cadillac had the same thought I did I have seen ujoints seized so no clang but shudder go luck with finding problem.

[solidaxle]

Ok I'll armchair quarterback.
Can we rule out the motor? Does it cough and spit when coming to a stop?
How does it act when letting out the clutch in reverse?

[Talkwrench]

[QUOTE=solidaxle;1927119]Ok I'll armchair quarterback.
Can we rule out the motor? YES. Does it cough and spit when coming to a STOP? NO
How does it act when letting out the clutch in reverse?[. FINE AS NORMAL. /QUOTE]

[solidaxle]

I would get a second opinion from someone who can actually drive it.

[Talkwrench]

OK ... Well thats not good. Hub has gone, the bearing rollers still have good surface however one or two the "pinned" rollers will jamb when rolling. The grease has turned to a light graphite colour . I guess this could be it.

I wonder what the other side is like

So the hub fix guys.. Sleeve.. ?

[Brian]

Yeah mate, you'll need a lathe big enough to turn those axle housings. Bugger!! I feel your pain.

[Lawrie]

Rob,what sort of bearing were you using,an original ford one?
You need to measure the bore in the hub as it may well be worn as well
Any picks of the bearing?
Lawrie

[Talkwrench]

Yes that bearing was a Ford one Lawrie. A quick measure with the verniers was 2.062

Just wondering as I'm sure I did see this at some point a repair "kit" sleeve , smaller bearing and loctite. I think it was for earlier diffs ? why.. larger bearing perhaps.. Can this type be used without disassembly?

[Lawrie]

Rob you need to use a set of telescopic gauges and a micrometer to measure the hub bore right down the bottom, you will find it’s bell mouthed
Lawrie