Electrical Issue advice

[rockfla]

When I attach the battery cable to the battery, there is a "strong" arc/pop when you attach the cable........Obviously NO lights are on, NO horn in blowing, No siren is blaring.........SO any suggestions on where or what to check first to find the "Current draw" ????? My inclination is to start with the on/off switch???

[JayChicago]

I would start with the generator, cuz it’s a likely suspect and easy to isolate, easy to get to.
The ignition switch Is not likely. When a switch goes bad it develops resistance but doesn’t normally short to ground. And that’s what you have, something is allowing current flow to ground when it shouldn’t

[FlatheadTed]

AS well ,Remove the low tension wires of the solenoid /starter switch then in turn re attache them to see were the current draw is ,Dash or engine side lights ,stop light .pull the fuse on the lights or the wire,

[35fordtn]

Use a test light and do a parasitic draw test and unhook wires till the light goes out.. I'd start with the generator cut out.

[Ggmac]

Like 35 fordtn said but i used a seatbelt buzzer so i could hear it when twisted under or in the dash . Even on six volts they usually work just a little less obnoxious.

[rockfla]

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SO, my assumption IS (by starting at the Generator/Cut Out) that by probing all the contacts (with ignition switch off) is that all should be "dead"??? My idea of starting at the switch I later realized is "fruitless" as HAD it been on "constant" my coil and points would have burned!!! SO....

[Kerk]

My 32 Ford Had a cut out when the points stuck It melted out the Amp Meter before I could disconnect the battery. I wil NEVER use a cut out (original) style again! I now use the FUN SPOT voltage Regulator type and it works great. Easy change and set up. kerk

[35fordtn]

Rockfla,
Do a parasitic draw test.... Unhook the ground cable and use a 6V bulb or a test light between the battery ground post and the battery ground strap. If there is a draw it will dimly light up (usually no very bright). I know most would say it cant possibly light up if connected between a ground strap and a battery ground post, but I PROMISE if there is a draw it will light up and the higher the draw the brighter it will be Leave it hooked up and start disconnecting things until it goes out.

My bet is on the Cut Out if it has not had a diode installed. My second guess would be the ignition switch.

[rockfla]

Thanks for the directions Mike, I sorta figured the ignition switch to "possibly" be in play but will check as you directed!!!

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by rockfla

SO, my assumption IS (by starting at the Generator/Cut Out) that by probing all the contacts (with ignition switch off) is that all should be "dead"??? My idea of starting at the switch I later realized is "fruitless" as HAD it been on "constant" my coil and points would have burned!!! SO....

On old Fords a lot of the circuits are hot all the time. The ignition circuit should only to hot to the ignition switch. The generator circuit is hot to the cutout. That is what the cut out is doing, breaking the connection between the battery and the generator. The lighting circuit is hot all the time to the lighting control switch and brakes are hot all the time. What year are you working on?

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by jseery

on old fords a lot of the circuits are hot all the time. The ignition circuit should only to hot to the ignition switch. The generator circuit is hot to the cutout. That is what the cut out is doing, breaking the connection between the battery and the generator. The lighting circuit is hot all the time to the lighting control switch and brakes are hot all the time. What year are you working on?

1932!

[JSeery]

fockfla do you have the wiring diagram? As you can see, it is hot to the dome light switch, ignition switch, the cutout on the generator, the input to the lighting control (which connects to the horn & brake lights), and to the ignition switch. The problem should be in one of these circuits and most likely the cutout. You can disconnect each connection one at a time and see which one stops the arcing (as already suggest by others, the connection to the cutout would be the place to start).

[koates]

On an ORIGINAL 1932 FORD the ignition switch only supplies power to the ignition coil when it is ON. It does not supply power to anything else so is very unlikely to be a problem. As others have said the round cutout on top of the generator is a big possibility so disconnect the front wire nearest the radiator from the cut out and see if your current draw has gone. Another possibility is the ammeter terminals might be shorted to ground inside the meter. So disconnect those items and report back. Regards, Kevin.

[koates]

rockfla, Were you able to find the problem current draw on your 32 Ford electrics. Feed back is always appreciated. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

rockfla, Were you able to find the problem current draw on your 32 Ford electrics. Feed back is always appreciated. Regards, Kevin.

Kaotes, JSEERY & 35Tn


It's been SO damn hot here that this past weekend, after doing yard work for almost 3 hours on Saturday, I was "DONE". Sunday I just plain drug up sorry!!! Our temps here have been "What the temps feel like" in the 100+ everyday!!! Today its supposed to be 106. SO my plan is to get up early tomorrow and do the do!!!! I hopefully will have an answer this weekend. Thanks a million for all the advice!!!

[koates]

rockfla, just another tip regarding the round ford cut out. There are two terminal screws and black insulators on the cutout. Pay very close attention how the insulators are fitted on the cutout cover. Each insulator is round in section with a square portion and is also curved (concave) which fits into a square hole on the metal cut out cover and this has to be fitted in exactly otherwise the terminal screw or bolt will short out to ground on the cover. Reproductions of these special insulators are available. This could also be your problem and the cut out itself is OK. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Koates
Thanks, Its the second Item on my punch list tomorrow!!!! I'll keep you posted!!

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by koates

rockfla, just another tip regarding the round ford cut out. There are two terminal screws and black insulators on the cutout. Pay very close attention how the insulators are fitted on the cutout cover. Each insulator is round in section with a square portion and is also curved (concave) which fits into a square hole on the metal cut out cover and this has to be fitted in exactly otherwise the terminal screw or bolt will short out to ground on the cover. Reproductions of these special insulators are available. This could also be your problem and the cut out itself is OK. Regards, Kevin.

Good point!

[TomO]

Rockfla, use a test light or buzzer between the ground post and ground to do your testing. Sparks around a battery can cause an explosion of the battery.


If it is not the cutout, check the stop lights.

[rockfla]

Okay, so I took the lead off the cutout and still had the arcing, SO got to poking around and two things, one.....the switch for the interior light looks like a suspect point as well as number two.....at the time of pick up I was made aware (and I forgot about it) that the wire for the siren wasn’t hooked up SO possibly “The” issue, I gotta chase that wire!!!!! In the mean time, I got it running and let dad take it for a spin, little did I know he was thinking trip and he ran it out of gas so I had to go fetch him and the car home BUT on the drive he reported the ammeter was “pegged”??? So thinking I need to pull the cutout??? Am going to wire in a go/no go light and start with the interior light switch, then the siren, then the horn, then the brake light switch!!!! Any thoughts/advice still welcome and appreciated

[JSeery]

Take a look at the wiring diagram. I would disconnect one circuit at a time until you find the one which is causing the arc at the battery.

[koates]

What do you mean the ammeter is pegged ? Is it right over on charge or discharge ? Is the engine running or not ? Does the ammeter show some kind of charge when the engine is revved up a bit ? Does the ammeter show a discharge when the headlights are turned ON with the engine stopped ? Please answer all these questions as I am trying to establish if the generator and lighting circuits are working OK. Did you disconnect the ammeter like I suggested earlier? Also disconnect the stop light switch. What is this SIREN, that is not original. Regards, Kevin.

[1931 flamingo]

No one's asked, so I will. Are we talking about your avitar?? Is this a stock configuration or is this a "hot rod" with aftermarket wiring?? FWIW
Paul in CT

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

What do you mean the ammeter is pegged ? Is it right over on charge or discharge ? Is the engine running or not ? Does the ammeter show some kind of charge when the engine is revved up a bit ? Does the ammeter show a discharge when the headlights are turned ON with the engine stopped ? Please answer all these questions as I am trying to establish if the generator and lighting circuits are working OK. Did you disconnect the ammeter like I suggested earlier? Also disconnect the stop light switch. What is this SIREN, that is not original. Regards, Kevin.

Kevin
First....I just pulled the lead wire to the cutout as that was very quick and easy to do and checked at the battery and it still arced!! SO I put the lead back on the cut out and just had a look under the dash. The switch for the interior light is suspect for sure!!! It has electrical tape wrapped around the back of it which I am not happy at all with!!! I also saw a couple of other spots with electrical tape around them that I have to investigate as well!!! As for the Siren......IF you noticed my avatar it is a custom German cabriolet and it has a "bosch" siren on it!! SO that is another item to add to the list along with the brake switch, interior light switch, horn etc etc. ALSO trafficators!!!!
The car is running!!!! Running fairly good!!! the ammeter gauge is pegged to the charge side!!! I have not disconnected the ammeter gauge YET!!! I can tell you that everything works except the horn (sometimes- its an issue with the horn not the wiring I know that for sure). The lights work, trafficators, interior lights, they all work, the siren is yet to be hooked to the switch!!!

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

No one's asked, so I will. Are we talking about your avitar?? Is this a stock configuration or is this a "hot rod" with aftermarket wiring?? FWIW
Paul in CT

Yes my avatar.....I didn't realize it looked like a "Hot Rod" "After Market" kind of car?? Stock configuration with 1930's German parade car and 1930 traffic law additions!!!!

[rockfla]

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Koates


IF it helps, here are the pictures of my cutout!!!

[Bob C]

Looks like you have the wires coming out of the generator hooked up wrong.
There should be a red and black wire coming out of the generator. The red
goes to the cut-out and the black goes under one of the cut-out hold down
screws to ground. See page 206 of the 1932-37 Service bulletins.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Looks like you have the wires coming out of the generator hooked up wrong.
There should be a red and black wire coming out of the generator. The red
goes to the cut-out and the black goes under one of the cut-out hold down
screws to ground. See page 206 of the 1932-37 Service bulletins.

So is the one wire from the generator going to the "lead" or power in side of the cutout supposed to be grounded under the cutout??? OR potentially the two wire coming out of the generator hooked up wrong as well as not being grounded???

[Bob C]

3brush.jpeg
I'm not real knowledgeable on this but it looks like one wire should come
from one of the main brushes to the A side of the cut-out and the other wire
should come from the field coil to ground under one of the cut-out screws.


This picture of a Model A generator may help. The wire you see going from brush to the stud at the cut-out is the one you want hooked to the A terminal on your cut-out.

[koates]

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words and Bob C is correct How could this happen. You will be lucky if your armature is not burnt out as current is being fed from the cut out battery wire at the front and fed into the generator all the time. Bad mistake here. To fix it remove the generator cover band. Follow the two generator wires into the generator. The one that goes to the main insulated brush holder is the one that goes to the back or A terminal on the cutout. The other wire connects into the field coils and then goes to ground under the cut out mounting screw. Only the battery wire goes to the front of the cutout. Be very careful to fit those terminal insulators correctly otherwise you will short the terminal screws to ground on the cut out cover. You will have to check the third brush setting so start the engine and rev it up some and read the amps charge on your ammeter. It should be only about five amps for daylight running. If its higher than that then adjust the third by pushing it around. Of course your mystery current draw will be gone now when everything is turned off. Post a new pic of your cutout so I can check it. Regards, Kevin.

[Randy in ca]

I'm not much of an electrician either, but I think this shows what Bob and Kevin have stated.

-

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words and Bob C is correct How could this happen. You will be lucky if your armature is not burnt out as current is being fed from the cut out battery wire at the front and fed into the generator all the time. Bad mistake here. To fix it remove the generator cover band. Follow the two generator wires into the generator. The one that goes to the main insulated brush holder is the one that goes to the back or A terminal on the cutout. The other wire connects into the field coils and then goes to ground under the cut out mounting screw. Only the battery wire goes to the front of the cutout. Be very careful to fit those terminal insulators correctly otherwise you will short the terminal screws to ground on the cut out cover. You will have to check the third brush setting so start the engine and rev it up some and read the amps charge on your ammeter. It should be only about five amps for daylight running. If its higher than that then adjust the third by pushing it around. Of course your mystery current draw will be gone now when everything is turned off. Post a new pic of your cutout so I can check it. Regards, Kevin.

Thank you Kevin, I will check it tonight.....My intuition tells me to pull the generator OFF and go have it checked before I proceed????

[koates]

Well it depends who is going to check it. Not all auto electricians or mechanics are conversant with early generators. I suggest that you follow the posted instructions and see how it goes. The third brush inside the generator is thinner than the other two brushes and the wire connected to it goes into the field coils. The other end of the field coils is the wire that goes under the cut out mounting screw to ground. Make sure any wires inside the generator are all clear of the rotating armature. Easy, so go to it. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

Well it depends who is going to check it. Not all auto electricians or mechanics are conversant with early generators. I suggest that you follow the posted instructions and see how it goes. The third brush inside the generator is thinner than the other two brushes and the wire connected to it goes into the field coils. The other end of the field coils is the wire that goes under the cut out mounting screw to ground. Make sure any wires inside the generator are all clear of the rotating armature. Easy, so go to it. Regards, Kevin.

Got it!!! I'll do it tonight, we have a good starter/generator guy here in town, he sort of hates to mess with them anymore as "good" parts are almost non existent anymore and he hates all the "new" Chinese crap!!!!

[35fordtn]

You generator should have a insulated stud and a bus bar (assuming authenticity is key). and the ground is grounded inside the case like a Model A. This was the case in 32-33. In 1934 they used wires coming out like yours has. As others have pointed out it is wired wrong.

[FlatheadTed]

He disconnected the gen wire and it still arced .it looks professionally wired is this some sort of bypass with a Diode hidden somewhere .I see Koates & Bob is right

[koates]

Ted, Well yes he did say that when the battery wire was disconnected off the cut out and there was still a current draw and that is a bit of a mystery. Unfortunately we are not there to check it out and the cut out is wired incorrectly so I think the best to do is make the connections correct and try it out. And then we go from there. The cut out looks like an original Ford one with the correct markings. We will see. Regards, Kevin.

[FlatheadTed]

Yes I agree ,might be fried now ,

[koates]

Originally Posted by 35fordtn

You generator should have a insulated stud and a bus bar (assuming authenticity is key). and the ground is grounded inside the case like a Model A. This was the case in 32-33. In 1934 they used wires coming out like yours has. As others have pointed out it is wired wrong.

Michael, you are correct about the generator. It appears to be a mix of components between 1932 & 1934. It has the correct front bracket with no cooling openings and a pulley without fan blades cast in. The field housing with the wires coming out through a grommet appears to be 1934 year. Cant really tell if the cut out is original FORD or a FUN PROJECTS regulator type. But its wired incorrectly for sure so when the wiring is corrected we will see if it works or not. Regards, Kevin.

[35fordtn]

Originally Posted by koates

Michael, you are correct about the generator. It appears to be a mix of components between 1932 & 1934. It has the correct front bracket with no cooling openings and a pulley without fan blades cast in. The field housing with the wires coming out through a grommet appears to be 1934 year. Cant really tell if the cut out is original FORD or a FUN PROJECTS regulator type. But its wired incorrectly for sure so when the wiring is corrected we will see if it works or not. Regards, Kevin.

Koates, I have several 32 Generators and around half of them have been repaired using the 1934-37 method of the wires exiting as shown. Not sure why?; but maybe because the original stud and insulator i hard to come by? I really like the original 1929-33 setup with the stud and bus bar internally grounded.

Given the use of Slotted Round head screws rather than the original type hex screws, and the looks of the stampings my guess is that it's a Fun Projects unit. If it indeed is; I would be suprised if it is not cooked by now after being wired the way it is/was...

Roclfla, another source of shorting is indeed the horn. Horns up through 1938 supplied power to the horns all the time and the horn button simply supplied the needed ground. Either way that generator and/or cutout needs to be figured/sorted out.

PS... Nice fan belt!

[rockfla]

Koates, Flathead Ted, 35TN Bobc
Logically thinking it through, The battery was "still" arcing because when I took the "A" or "lead/battery" wire off the cut out (I didn't know at the time) I didn't remove the "incorrect" mounted wire from the A side/battery wire SO at that point it is "STILL" (connected together with the screw) grounded internally in the generator, Correct???? Had I removed it THEN it shouldn't arc as I theoretically have removed the generator ground from being mounted with the "Hot" or battery lead...... the wire which "Should" have been mounted under the cutout base screw......Correct?????


At this point.....Like Koates has said, I have nothing to loose BUT to correct the wiring and run it and see what I have, I'm not expecting it to charge SO.........nothing from nothing leaves nothing.....I will see tonight or tomorrow hopefully!!!!!

[rockfla]

Okay, just came in from working on the 32......I took the “HOT” wire or “A” Side wire off the cutout and removed the generator wire from the screw and reattached the “HOT” wire “A” to the cut out. I checked the battery and NO arcing. So I removed the ring off the back of the generator and can see where the one wire attaches at the brush....BUT cannot distinguish from the two wires exiting from the top of the generator as they both are identical colored wires.....SO I got my VO meter and put it on “continuity” and put one probe on the wire/screw at the brush and touched side “B” connected at the cutout and it beeps, that’s good?? Correct...... BUT I leave the probe on the brush screw and touch the other wire (now loose and not connected) and touch the other probe to it and it is continuous there too, it beeps???

SO am I to assume That since both wires register continuous from the brush wire/screw that the generator is grounding out at the point in which IT fried???

OR

Is there some other way to try and distinguish which wire is which?

[35fordtn]

Rockfla,
When we spoke today I wasn;t very clear and likely misspoke; And in this case typing it out will be easier..

You have three brushes, with the middle being the adjustable. The upper brush goes to the ground for the rear end plate ... not a concern for you. The middle Adjustable brush goes to the LH field coil wire and does not protrude outside the generator. The lower brush is the main power feed wire that comes out and connects to the Cutout. The RH field coil wire is the case ground; and on a 34 and later or as with yours grounds to the cut out mounting screw.

Now, given that the Lower and adjustable brushes are both riding on the commutator of the armature you will get a reading on both as you notice. The easiest way to determine which is which is to use the Ohm setting at 20 on your meter and see which has less ohms. One wire will have nearly zero and the other will have (should have) significantly more. The reason it has more is it is traveling through the 20 feet of field coil windings. The one with less resistance will be the direct wire you are tracing on the other end.

The other way and maybe easier is you should be able to push and pull on each wire and determine which is which.

On these three brush generators it's easy to forget which wire goes where. I have a diagram drawn on the shop wall with a sharpie so I wont screw up when building them.

[koates]

rockfla, Lets clear up a couple of points. The Ä" terminal on the cutout is for ARMATURE or generator connection and NOT the hot battery wire. The "B" terminal on the cut out is for the BATTERY or live hot wire, and at the front near the radiator, thats the opposite to what you are saying!!! Next, throw away your test meter because its only confusing you because it is reading through the field and armature windings and giving you a reading on all connections. With both the wires that are coming out of the generator casing disconnect them from the cutout and move them up and down through the grommet hole one at a time to locate which one is going to where (into the field coil or on to the main brush) inside the generator. For this job put your best reading glasses on and a nice bright LED torch shining into the generator. When you have done this and then connected those two wires as per instructions on my earlier post. The "B"terminal on the front of the cutout should then have only the HOT LIVE wire connected to it. The Ä"cut out terminal will only have one wire on it which connects on to the main insulated brush (NOT THE EARTH BRUSH). The cut out mounting screw will have one wire under it with the other end of it going into the field coils. Run it and see what happens . Because you are not really electrically minded dont try to think too much about what is going on here, but just follow my instructions. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

rockfla, Lets clear up a couple of points. The Ä" terminal on the cutout is for ARMATURE or generator connection and NOT the hot battery wire. The "B" terminal on the cut out is for the BATTERY or live hot wire, and at the front near the radiator, thats the opposite to what you are saying!!! Next, throw away your test meter because its only confusing you because it is reading through the field and armature windings and giving you a reading on all connections. With both the wires that are coming out of the generator casing disconnect them from the cutout and move them up and down through the grommet hole one at a time to locate which one is going to where (into the field coil or on to the main brush) inside the generator. For this job put your best reading glasses on and a nice bright LED torch shining into the generator. When you have done this and then connected those two wires as per instructions on my earlier post. The "B"terminal on the front of the cutout should then have only the HOT LIVE wire connected to it. The Ä"cut out terminal will only have one wire on it which connects on to the main insulated brush (NOT THE EARTH BRUSH). The cut out mounting screw will have one wire under it with the other end of it going into the field coils. Run it and see what happens . Because you are not really electrically minded dont try to think too much about what is going on here, but just follow my instructions. Regards, Kevin.

Sorry for getting the "A" & "B" mixed up!!!! Koates, I did make an effort last night to that with the wires by pulling on them BUT as you see from the picture they were predominately covered with rubber heat shrink and the rubber against rubber against the rubber grommet, they don't move SO I will remove the grommet from the generator housing tonight and hopefully that will produce the result I am looking for!!!

[35fordtn]

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Your gonna have a heck of a time getting that grommet back in with that rubber around those wires. If you own a multimeter this is a simple ten second check to ohm the wires and trace them as mentioned in my previous post.

[rockfla]

SO......I got the generator/cutout wiring all sorted and got it filled with gas since Dad ran it out, I put the battery charger on it since it wasn’t charging to make sure it’s up to snuff so I plan on a test run tomorrow evening when I get home. I will post the results as soon as possible, thanks for all the help, direction, advice and support!!! Greatly appreciated- Mike, Kevin, BobC, Jseery et al!!!

[rockfla]

So, I got it started and running BUT the ammeter gauge is stuck aa little above 10; running or not running, ignition on or off, stuck! Sorry I don’t know know why it turned sideways, it’s not that way on my iPad

[koates]

Well you could give the ammeter glass a gentle TAP TAP and see if the needle will center itself. If it will not return to center it will have to be removed and repaired or replaced with another ammeter. You need the meter working so you can see what is going on with your charging system. There is a possibility that the generator armature has been overheated and cooked during all of this drama. We also dont know the internal condition of the cut out (or FUN PROJECTS regulator) so the ammeter has to be functional. Its possible to repair the ammeter but it needs to be taken apart to check if it has been overheated inside. You can see by the simple mistake of incorrect connections the damage to components is the result. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

Well you could give the ammeter glass a gentle TAP TAP and see if the needle will center itself. If it will not return to center it will have to be removed and repaired or replaced with another ammeter. You need the meter working so you can see what is going on with your charging system. There is a possibility that the generator armature has been overheated and cooked during all of this drama. We also dont know the internal condition of the cut out (or FUN PROJECTS regulator) so the ammeter has to be functional. Its possible to repair the ammeter but it needs to be taken apart to check if it has been overheated inside. You can see by the simple mistake of incorrect connections the damage to components is the result. Regards, Kevin.

Kevin
And to think we paid handsomely for this too!! I did try to tap tap tap the face while the car was running to no avail, I think I may try it on the back side before I pull it? At this point recommendations for a good repair source is welcome!!!

[koates]

Through all of this issue I have been wondering why the cut out was connected this incorrect way. When the car was first restored I would think that it was fitted correctly and worked OK. So since then the cut out or FUN PROJECTS regulator has been fitted and wired incorrectly. How long has it been like this and how much running was done ? The battery also has to be fitted the right way around which would be POSITIVE to ground in original form. The incorrect connections have "pegged "the ammeter with excessive current going through it. Strange that it is on the charge side and not the discharge side. The Fun Projects round regulators are produced in both Negative and Positive ground and 6 or 12 volts so the correct one has to be fitted to match the battery voltage and polarity. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Koates
I cannot say how long the cutout has been in place as this is the first time I personally have taken the “lead” on keeping and maintaining the cars. This is the first time in 11 years (another story for another day) that we have had the car in our procession running! So my dad is now 81 and doesn’t have as sharp of a memory SO IF he was the one to put the Fun Projects cutout on it it’s been at least 11 years and could be as many as 15 or more!!! As for how long it’s run wired incorrectly.......I have no idea other than to say possibility an hour at the most? At various lengths of time within that hour and driven once for about 15 to 20 minutes! I can tell you it is always been 6V positive ground since day

SO IF Anyone has suggestions on where to send my ammeter for repair ALL suggestions are appreciated

[V8COOPMAN]

[QUOTE=rockfla;1920410
SO IF Anyone has suggestions on where to send my ammeter for repair ALL suggestions are appreciated[/QUOTE]


Don't know where to send your meter to get the needle leaning straight-up, but I do know how to lean THE PICTURE back-up straight with the world. DD

[koates]

Just for a test you could remove the damaged ammeter and connect up a modern ammeter using some extended wires to connect it to the wires removed from the old meter. Poke the wires through the ammeter hole in the dash and just hang the new meter on the wires carefully. Most new meters are 60 or 30 amps so find a 30 amp one. Otherwise you could use a multimeter set to AMPS with most of these being able to handle about 10 amps but that would be OK for a test. At least you would then know if the generator was working or not. I know its difficult for you to get through all of this and difficult these days to find someone who knows all about old auto electrics. I could do it but I am 10,000 miles away. Do the test when you can and then we go from there. Could you post a good picture of your cut out since you have rewired it please. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Here is what I have now! And it keeps flipping my pictures

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Here is what I have now! And it keeps flipping my pictures

Try taking a picture with your camera rotated 90 degrees CLOCKWISE, as you look thru it...see what happens. DD

[Bob C]

Here you go.
Did you ever remove the cut-out and look at the bottom of it to see if
it's a stock points type, a diode, or a voltage regulator?

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Here is what I have now! And it keeps flipping my pictures

Are you using an iphone? I know they can have interesting photo files.

[rockfla]

Here is the cutout that’s on the car and yes an iPhone and iPad and still two out of three are turned

[35fordtn]

That is definitely a fun projects unit. The ford stamping was the first clue, and seeing the bottom side comfirms it.

Their ford stamping is much larger than a original

[koates]

rockfla, I have just checked the underside of my spare FUN PROJECTS regulator and it is exactly the same as your regulator. The underside of an original cut out is different. So you have a regulator which is possibly still OK and you wont know until you have a working ammeter. Another way to test your charging is to connect a voltmeter or multimeter set on around the 20 volt DC scale and connect between the ground and either of the regulator terminals and with some revs up on the engine you should have around 7.2 to 7.5 volts. If it is under 7 volts then it is not charging. See how you go. Regards, Kevin.

[koates]

The Fun Projects regulators have a slit or cut in the cover each side under each terminal. Original cut outs also have a special hex head terminal bolt and not a slotted screw like on the regulator type. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

So, today when I got home I hooked my meter up at the generator cutout and here is what I did. I connected the ground lead to the screw/wire at the base of the cutout. I connected the red lead to the “A” screw/wire of the cutout. Picture one is hooked up no power not running. Pictures 2 and 3 are running and about the highest and lowest readings on my meter. I also spoke with Fun Projects today and can send my cutout back for testing and or repair if needed.

[Bob C]

Not sure what you are reading. Your meter appears to be on AC mode with
the selector on 10amp and the red lead plugged into the milliamp jack.

[koates]

Your meter is not set correctly. Switch has to be set on V for volts. Has to be DC volts NOT AC volts. The red test lead has to be in the volts ohms hole. You will never get a correct reading with it set the way you have it now. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

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Originally Posted by Bob C

Not sure what you are reading. Your meter appears to be on AC mode with
the selector on 10amp and the red lead plugged into the milliamp jack.

The meter is an auto ranging meter BUT I just realized the red lead is in the wrong spot, it should be in the 10A spot

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

Your meter is not set correctly. Switch has to be set on V for volts. Has to be DC volts NOT AC volts. The red test lead has to be in the volts ohms hole. You will never get a correct reading with it set the way you have it now. Regards, Kevin.

Doesn’t the ammeter measure amps? So why would I need to measure volts coming out of the generator?? I thought somewhere some one said I should be reading around 7-7.5 amps from the generator

[Bob C]

Should be reading around 7-7.5 Volts. If you were trying to read amps
the meter needs to be in series between the generator output and the
wire going to the battery.

[rockfla]

Okay, I’m done. I’m ordering the correct generator from Mike tomorrow and sending the cutout back to Fun Projects, that way there is NO doubt. Now I’m down to a stuck ammeter? I’ll pull that tomorrow and investigate. Thanks for all y’all’s attempts to help

[koates]

I am trying to get you to read VOLTS. I know the meter is autoranging but the switch needs to be set to volts. The red lead has to be in the VOLTS & OHMS socket. Dont give up on this now because there is a possibility that the generator and regulator is still OK. Forget about amps at this stage. We are looking for above 7 volts out of the generator with the engine revved a bit. Generators do not charge at engine idle speed. I will be disappointed if you dont follow along here, Otherwise I will have wasted my time. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

I am trying to get you to read VOLTS. I know the meter is autoranging but the switch needs to be set to volts. The red lead has to be in the VOLTS & OHMS socket. Dont give up on this now because there is a possibility that the generator and regulator is still OK. Forget about amps at this stage. We are looking for above 7 volts out of the generator with the engine revved a bit. Generators do not charge at engine idle speed. I will be disappointed if you dont follow along here, Otherwise I will have wasted my time. Regards, Kevin.

Kevin
I will try to slide by this morning and run a quick voltage test. I assume you probe the two wires coming out of the generator? I will try and post pictures and should be around lunch time today EST (USA). I see we are 14 hours difference mate!!! Timing doesn't work for either of our schedules

[koates]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Kevin
I will try to slide by this morning and run a quick voltage test. I assume you probe the two wires coming out of the generator? I will try and post pictures and should be around lunch time today EST (USA). I see we are 14 hours difference mate!!! Timing doesn't work for either of our schedules

I did explain to you where to connect the voltmeter. The black wire to ground at the cutout mounting screw would be good. The red wire to one of the cut out terminal screws but make it at the Ä terminal. Set your meter as I explained earlier to VOLTS DC. Rev up engine to a steady setting for 30 seconds or so and you should be reading about 7.2 to 7.5 volts. Make sure your meter connections are good. Regards, Kevin.

[35fordtn]

To add to Kevin’s instructions be sure it’s not hooked to a battery charger during the check.

[rockfla]

SO, I have two VO meters and put both on the car, one I got a 0.5 volt reading as a high with the car at an increased throttle. My other read a 0.7 then switched to.694 as a high reading increased throttle! So I take that as the generator is fried?

[koates]

Assuming you have tested as per instructions previously posted then your meter readings are showing that the generator or regulator or both are at fault. I guess you will have to get some professional help on this by taking the generator to your local auto electrical shop and get him to run it up on his test bench. Make sure you tell him this is a POSITIVE ground unit, especially the regulator as it is electronic. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

Assuming you have tested as per instructions previously posted then your meter readings are showing that the generator or regulator or both are at fault. I guess you will have to get some professional help on this by taking the generator to your local auto electrical shop and get him to run it up on his test bench. Make sure you tell him this is a POSITIVE ground unit, especially the regulator as it is electronic. Regards, Kevin.

Thanks Kevin, I already have a 32 correct generator in the works and will use this one on the car as a backup. I’m pulling the cutout tonight and sending it off to Fun Projects and they will check and repair as necessary. I’m
Pulling the ammeter tomorrow and getting it off for repair as well!! Thanks again for yours and everyone else’s help and advice, my more trusted meter that read .694 volts I took over to the battery on my 39 Merc and it read 6.32v so I know that meter is “on”!!!!