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Old 10-27-2019, 02:43 PM   #1
Ol' Ron
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Default What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Just got off the phone with a friend of mine. He has a collection of flathead parts and would like to get rid of some of it, Unfortunately the problem for most stuff, there is no market for it, like hundred sof valves lifters guides and etc. now if they were all into an engine, it would be different. At present he has most of the parts for a 30 over 8ba engine. Block, Reground crank, rods, pistons valves. etc. Now if this was running? what's it worth?
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Old 10-27-2019, 02:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

If it was a completely stock build - my guess is that he might be able to get $3K to $4K for it. It would cost that much to build it for sure (now days) - but you have to find the exactly right buyer.

I'd probably put a 3/4 cam in it, a set of Edelbrock heads and an Edelbrock slingshot - then I'd try to get $5 - 6K or so for it. And having it running - with video - is a good thing.

Just one man's opinion!
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Without proven components and a know reliable builder keeping records, it might be difficult to find a buyer. If it were me, I would much prefer the parts unassembled!
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Old 10-27-2019, 04:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Agree with Jerry


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Old 10-27-2019, 04:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Dennis Frings from here in Charlotte has had engines on the HAMB for a long time at fair money & no buyers yet. His engines are right.
Just don’t know why but rebuilt flatheads don’t seem to bring close to what it cost to build them.
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Old 10-27-2019, 04:27 PM   #6
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Dennis Frings from here in Charlotte has had engines on the HAMB for a long time at fair money & no buyers yet. His engines are right.
Just don’t know why but rebuilt flatheads don’t seem to bring close to what it cost to build them.
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Old 10-27-2019, 05:02 PM   #7
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Where are these engines listed on the Hamb?
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Old 10-27-2019, 05:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

>>>Now if this was running? what's it worth?>>>


I'd guess a dollar less than my running early 38 21-studder. Did I guess right? 8^) Jack ENJ
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Old 10-27-2019, 05:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

I think Flathead guys know to much . I mean how many times
do we see and here about crack blocks in rebuilt motors
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Old 10-27-2019, 06:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

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Where are these engines listed on the Hamb?
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...heads.1154253/
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:28 AM   #11
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...thead.1015289/ I have this one for sale. Not one inquiry.
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:34 AM   #12
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Just don’t know why but rebuilt flatheads don’t seem to bring close to what it cost to build them


BECAUSE A jASPER sbc goes for 1500. and thats what rodders like.
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

I just finished what would be considered a "high performance" build, so take that into consideration when you read the price. It took me five blocks to find one to build.

Labor (machine shop, balancing and builder) came in at over $6K. Now I believe I've had one of the best flathead guys build this engine, so you may be able to find one cheaper, but I wanted the best since I hope to only do it once.

I've been collecting parts for this build along the way and I got some really good deals, but if you had to pay retail, it would have added another 3,500-$4,000K to the price. So, I'd assume that puts the price at around $10K. Funny, my friend's father bought a Motor City Flathead from Kirby in the 90's. It was $10K from him at that time.

Additional parts were Merc crank, NOS 8BA rods, Weber flywheel, Centerforce PP, Cyclone head, Potvin cam, Ross pistons w/ metric rings, Slingshot manifold, Petronix ignition.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiWinUS View Post
Dennis Frings from here in Charlotte has had engines on the HAMB for a long time at fair money & no buyers yet. His engines are right.
Just don’t know why but rebuilt flatheads don’t seem to bring close to what it cost to build them.
I believe without knowing the person who built them and without documentation of mag & pressure testing, you are still buying an unknown.

If I had $100 for every "rebuilt" flathead I've looked at on some dude's garage floor, I'd be a wealthy man.

Plus, you have two options if you live out of state: Trust the person and pay another $500 to have it shipped or take a few days off and drive there. Either option is additional time & money.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

In addition to what Tim posted, it is not going to be built to your specifications/likes unless you are involved from the get-go. Just the way it is.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

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In addition to what Tim posted, it is not going to be built to your specifications/likes unless you are involved from the get-go. Just the way it is.
Great point.
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

I don't think you understand the question. How much does it coust to rebuild the engine. Take it to a machineshop and have it rebuilt "STOCK"
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Old 10-28-2019, 09:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

I'm not as involved with the Flathead scene, but am heavily into the small block Fords and other OHV engines. My experience is that once an engine is assembled, nobody wants to buy it. A private seller is lucky to get half of what he has in it. Engines are far more valuable as parts. Nobody wants to buy a 'pig in a poke'... as there have been far too many 'Krylon' rebuilds and tons of crap work out there. When buying from a private seller, there is no recourse if you are stuck with a turd.

People also want to have a HAND in their own engines. They want to at least have the idea that they at least helped choose the parts, etc. They enjoy the creative process.
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Old 10-28-2019, 09:55 AM   #19
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

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I don't think you understand the question. How much does it coust to rebuild the engine. Take it to a machineshop and have it rebuilt "STOCK"
I don't think stock is far off from the $3,000-$4,000 someone mentioned.

If your buddy has an already disassembled block, that may get it to be on the lower end of the $3,000-$4,000 range. I had 15 hours getting the studs out of my 99A block.

That is assuming lower quality pistons are used and everything else can be reused or reconditioned.

Machine work alone just to clean, test, and bore the block is going to be around $700-$900 depending where he's located.

Last edited by Tim Ayers; 10-28-2019 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 10-28-2019, 09:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

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I don't think you understand the question. How much does it coust to rebuild the engine. Take it to a machineshop and have it rebuilt "STOCK"
Boy Ron, I believe that is going to be all over the place. There is a lot of difference from one shop to another and think it is going to depend on what needs to be done. I'm not even sure one persons definition of stock is the same as another's. You posted the crank is turned, that would at least need to be checked. Are the bearing there and the correct size, etc. You are a builder, you know the ropes as well as anyone does!
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:49 AM   #21
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Ron, You have been building flatty's for decades. A fair price would be whatever YOU would charge to rebuild that engine to "STOCK" and then test it on an engine stand.
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:01 AM   #22
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Might call a couple of shops and see if they would provide a quote.
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:13 AM   #23
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Yeah - it is really tough to sell ANY assembled engine unless that is your business, you have great marketing, you do it day in/out, have tons of references, have an online/social presence and a reputation that matches. This is even true in high-end SBC builds.

I just sourced all the parts to build a 520 HP 383 SBC stroker - 4 bolt main 350 block, high quality forged crank, billet steel rods, Weisco pistons, AFR heads, custom roller cam, etc.. Balanced, square decked, windage tray, select oil pump, road-race oil pan, etc, etc, etc.. I have about $6000 in the engine - with me doing all the selection, parts purchasing, assembly and detailed work.

Imagine if I tried to put it on eBay and sell it. The typical buyer sees a stroker 383 SBC from a variety of vendors that makes 500 HP - and is going to pay $5000 - $6000 for it (turnkey).

The challenge is that you get what THEY put together and the details mater to me:

-> Mine has a quality Manley forged crank - theirs has a SCAT 9000 cast crank
-> Mine has Manley billet steel rods - theirs has SCAT forged rods
-> Mine has a custom roller cam and Harlan-Sharpe rockers - theirs is an off-the-shelf CompCams roller and cheap Chinese rockers.
-> Mine has AFR heads with the good valves and springs - theirs are Chinese knock-offs with much lower quality components.

The problem is that the average person doesn't know about all the details - they see 500 HP and that is it! Also, every one of these engines looks GREAT on the outside.

Having a custom built engine by somebody who really knows the details is going to cost you a lot of money - if it's a flathead probably 2X what you'd think.

Some people will pay for one-off custom engines (and have the $$$ it takes) . . . but that crowd has dwindled in size over the years - we surely don't have enough "customers" in the flathead world.
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:58 AM   #24
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

I paid about $3k for machining and new pistons /rods/bearings in suburban Milwaukee last year. The shop installed the valves and I handled the rest. Stock build.
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

When I did my 258" flathead, the machine shop bill was right around $1800, which resulted in a complete short block. There was also a separate charge of $150 for balancing. It's not a "stock" engine, but the machine work did not include anything that wouldn't be needed on a stock rebuild.

This was at the NAPA in Baxter, MN and the job was taken on a "fill-in" basis. The machinist there had formerly done a lot on 8N and 9N Ford tractor engines, although he had never done a V8 flathead. The resulting engine seems to be perfect (except for the Speedway Motors oil pump that I supplied and had to be replaced with a Ford pump).

Last edited by tubman; 10-28-2019 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:14 PM   #26
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

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Ron, I see you are in Vermont! Im also a Vermonter, but sadly now live in Taxachusetts. Cost for one just done was about $4000 all things said and done. hope that helps.
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:16 PM   #27
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Thats machine shop time and my time and parts
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:48 PM   #28
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

For a completely STOCK rebuild with no cracks needing repair, using the stock cam, stock rods that are rebuilt, stock crank reground to next under size, original front cover and stock intake manifold. With everything else internal replaced with new parts all machine work and assembly the going price is in the area of $4500.00 to $5000.00
Labor costs money as well as all the new parts.
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Old 10-28-2019, 03:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Allow me to tell you what the stock engine will be made of
Good block
Good crank and rods (matched set)
good used .040 pistons. Measured cam bearings OK
Grind all the valves & Seats original lifters.
8BA pan & 10: flywheel
Checked original oil pump OK
t
Original stock Heads (Milled)
stock intake
Buyer must furnish carb and dis. i'll run the enginr with my stuff, but don't have any spare ones
I also have a setof 8BA water pumps, probably should be rebuilt.

I'm supervising the build, my studen is a young 73 years old, Gota teach these young ones sumpin
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Old 10-28-2019, 04:34 PM   #30
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
Allow me to tell you what the stock engine will be made of
Good block
Good crank and rods (matched set)
good used .040 pistons. Measured cam bearings OK
Grind all the valves & Seats original lifters.
8BA pan & 10: flywheel
Checked original oil pump OK
t
Original stock Heads (Milled)
stock intake
Buyer must furnish carb and dis. i'll run the enginr with my stuff, but don't have any spare ones
I also have a setof 8BA water pumps, probably should be rebuilt.

I'm supervising the build, my studen is a young 73 years old, Gota teach these young ones sumpin


Ron what you list is far from what one would call a rebuild. Its more like a rattle can rebuild. I have seen similar jobs in the past the owners thinking they had a complete rebuild only to discover that was not the case. Actually have one in the shop at the moment not a rebuild but more a partial clean up and the one Im dealing with was not a very good clean up! Teaching to do it this way leaves a lot to be desired the way I see it. For most Flatheads being built today this may be the final time they will ever be rebuilt. Hopefully the rebuild will be done in a way so many enjoyable years can be had by the owner. My point is if your going to teach the young ones something {age has no bearing} teach them right . Plus i bet a proper rebuild would get much better fuel economy than a somewhat partial build.
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First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:31 PM   #31
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

I don't see the difference between this build and any other. All the parts are good, if their good, what's wrong?? Yes I've built allot of engines and most are still running.
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Anyone know if these builders have earlier rebuilt engines, I would be interested in a 36 LB that wasn't worn out
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:13 PM   #33
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

From what I've seen over the last year being advertised, I would say a "rebuilt" flathead was selling between CAN$3K -$5K, but that typically is just the block assembly. Your still missing intake, carb, generator, pulley, and other bits. Hopefully, I should be getting back my "stock" build shortly from the machinist, but I can list the following I've dumped into so far(approx prices):

Block: CAN$100
Cam Regrind (1007B): US$250 plus shipping
Crank Regrind (stk 3.75"): CAN$250 plus shipping
Egge .060" Pistons: US$100
Rods: stk
Lifters (USA): US$300 plus shipping
Valves/springs: US$100 plus shipping
Cam gear: US$40 plus shipping
Cam bearings: US$40 plus shipping
Main and Rod bearings: ??? Supplied by crank grinder and no invoice yet list for US$100 for main
Full gasket set: US$100

That's already US$1200 and that's far from a complete "running" motor. I'll be using stk intake, carb, dist, and heads. I'll be getting just the short block from the machinist and I'll be finishing it off.

Last edited by Ziggster; 10-29-2019 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:20 PM   #34
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

What's the Flathead king say.
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:30 PM   #35
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Who would that be?
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:37 PM   #36
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
I don't see the difference between this build and any other. All the parts are good, if their good, what's wrong?? Yes I've built allot of engines and most are still running.

I agree. In fact, by inspecting and properly measuring the used parts and either condemning them or judging them fit for reuse you are teaching the student valuable lessons in engine work. The same clearances need to be adhered to whether the engine is fitted with all new parts or good used stuff,so the machining operations are the same with either.

I'm building a 260" engine for my '41 Merc right now and it'll be almost identical to your list,Ron. Good parts are good parts and will last if done correctly. Now,I know some (customer) folks think only new will do, and great if they have the cash. To each his own!


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Old 10-28-2019, 10:57 PM   #37
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

There are allot of short cuts that many new builders don't know. Like Balancing. I try to get a Crank ,rod set for the street builds. this is a good factory balance job for street. and the weight of the piston doesn't matter . Valve springs. I run 50lbs on all street cams, including the L-100. (stock spring and.060" shim. Don't use adj lifters. Not many bulders today wouldn't do that. Plus i use allot of used bearings. I have a .020/.020 crank and rod set with great bearings. Throw them away?? N
knurel the guides. ETC
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:17 AM   #38
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

And there in lies the issue Ron, when you buy a rebuilt engine, unless you know who built it and how and it is documented you are buying a pig in a poke! And does it come with a guarantee? Even the best builds can end up with an unforeseen issue.
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
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There are allot of short cuts that many new builders don't know. Like Balancing. I try to get a Crank ,rod set for the street builds. this is a good factory balance job for street. and the weight of the piston doesn't matter . Valve springs. I run 50lbs on all street cams, including the L-100. (stock spring and.060" shim. Don't use adj lifters. Not many bulders today wouldn't do that. Plus i use allot of used bearings. I have a .020/.020 crank and rod set with great bearings. Throw them away?? N
knurel the guides. ETC
I'm like you , good used beats unproven new . Maybe it's the way we were raised !
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:24 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ggmac View Post
I'm like you , good used beats unproven new . Maybe it's the way we were raised !
Although we seem to have gotten off the subject here, I just want to add this little book by none other than the Ford Motor Company before we go back to discussion of what a flathead is worth. I think I have all the flathead books written since the 90's , and some written way before, but this orange one is my 'bible' when I build an engine for myself. I have on occasion strayed a bit from the teachings in the real bible, but I stick to this one when overhauling an engine and when a part is deemed worn beyond or even close to an 'acceptable clearance' I won't use it. I assume the reason ford published this little treatise was because regular working people back then didn't want to spend money needlessly and they still don't. At 66 years of age and driving 3 flathead powered vehicles with my 'repaired' engines, I doubt I will ever wear them out. I drive them carefully and use modern lubricants, changed with common sense. Besides, I have some modern 90's vehicles for everyday driving! Now back to what is an engine built from a mix of parts worth? Someone smarter than me will have to figure that one out. Anyone know how to search ebay history?
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:30 PM   #41
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Hoping these two pages easier to read....
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:50 PM   #42
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I'm guessing that I had over 4 grand in my 8ba rebuild for parts and machine work but I really didn't add all the little stuff up, just paid for it as I went. Block tanked, magged, sonic tested, bored, and decked. The heads were surfaced and beaded. Used a Merc cam and adjustable lifters I had plus a set of Skip's rebuilt pumps. Most of the engine parts such as pistons and bearings came from Red's Headers. Charlie NY had already rebuilt the carb and Bubba previously supplied a Chevy distributor conversion. The machinist assembled the short block. The figure doesn't include the new BrassWorks radiator.
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Old 10-30-2019, 08:29 PM   #43
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

I have a 59A out of a '47 business coupe. I bought the car from the original owner, who lived down the street from me in NW Chicago in 1963.


To the best of my knowledge, the engine has never been disassembled.


I used it in a '32 coupe in Milwaukee from Sept, 1963 to August, 1964.


It has been more or less idle since then. Except for a few tries to get it running.


With a little work it can start it up.


Comments would be welcome.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:37 PM   #44
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Abother cost saving idea that works pretty well, have your old guides knurled . Also instead of using the little rubber seal on the intake guide, just put some Hi tempPVC on the guide. Goes in alittel easer and will never leak oil. WE should keep this thread going, I'll bet there are allot of cost savu\ing for rebuilding these engines and make them last for another 20 years or untill there ins't any gas.
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Old 10-31-2019, 06:40 AM   #45
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Total cost of my 8ba 2years ago in Ohio was aprox $5k including Offy 400 heads, .030 over, turning the crank, new valves, springs,guides etc.... The shop i used is a little pricy ???
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Old 10-31-2019, 07:21 AM   #46
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There was a time when SF Flatheads & Vern Tardel sold NOS French 8BA-style rods for $125. That is a great deal compared to getting used re-conditioned. I bought two sets. One to use and one to save for later.

Keep your eyes open for these if you find them.

Also, be careful purchase surplus bearings. The ones that were covered in cosmoline or that cosmoline soaked paper often have damage to the face of the bearing where the cosmoline ate into the surface.

They are generally a good deal price-wise, but unusable in most cases. Especially when compared to King bearings costing $125 for a set of 59AB mains. Doesn't make sense to purchase these.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:44 PM   #47
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I've been wanting to post a thread similar to the direction this one is going. I have a really good 59ab but I'd like to build a flathead just for the learning experience.


I've since lost grandpa as a resource two years ago but he rebuilt 100's of flattys and when I would ask him questions, he would always say, "Oh, you don't need to do all that. They spend all that extra money for nothing. It doesn't take all that to build a good reliable flat head." This coming from a guy that ran nitro, did his own boring with hones, ground his own cams and did his own porting and relieving. I watched him buy and old motor and scour the swap meets for new bearings, rings and pistons. But I just didn't get in on watching him actually go through one. Usually by the next time I stopped by, it was already back together and he was on to the next one.


So, I've always wondered what HAS to be done. I know there are two schools of thought on this, as I see it emerging, here, in this thread.


I'm of the do it yourself, save money and reuse what you can school and I'd really like to do it this way- honestly I just can't spend that kind of $$ on one.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:45 PM   #48
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As I'm reading this thread I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a customer a little while ago about his purchase of a blown, Ardun Flathead from H&H for over 30,000.00 with a 6 month delivery time. There's a Flathead for every budget.
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Old 12-11-2019, 04:00 PM   #49
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

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There's a Flathead for every budget.

Surely can't argue with that logic. Isn't that right, Flathead Youngin'? DD
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Old 12-11-2019, 04:14 PM   #50
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As I'm reading this thread I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a customer a little while ago about his purchase of a blown, Ardun Flathead from H&H for over 30,000.00 with a 6 month delivery time. There's a Flathead for every budget.




And all he gets are reproduction heads not originals Ardun heads.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:18 PM   #51
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And all he gets are reproduction heads not originals Ardun heads.
Ronnieroadster
I had heard that the reproduction heads had several improvements over the originals that made them an overall better setup. Id this not true?
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:18 PM   #52
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Going thru the invoices that came with my car I found one dated 11/3/03 for the engine rebuild. $2857.43 parts and labor. Looks like the block, 1 head and the cam were the only parts not replaced. Wonder what this would cost 16 years later.
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:29 PM   #53
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Going thru the invoices that came with my car I found one dated 11/3/03 for the engine rebuild. $2857.43 parts and labor. Looks like the block, 1 head and the cam were the only parts not replaced. Wonder what this would cost 16 years later.

I have a friend with an 8BA being rebuilt by a "known" pro builder right now. New heads, cam and valvetrain, new intake and two of the good 97s, new pistons, bearings.....about $7K today. DD
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:04 PM   #54
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Can't see how a cheap rebuild is worth it. Too much effort involved to not do it correctly the first time and good blocks are to difficult to come by to take a chance on destroying. That's my take.

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Old 12-11-2019, 09:29 PM   #55
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I had heard that the reproduction heads had several improvements over the originals that made them an overall better setup. Id this not true?
Over the years I've talked to several people who have indicated that very same thing. In fact years ago I had a chance to buy a complete Ardun engine and was advised if I was going to spend that money, it would be better spent on the reproductions.
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Old 12-11-2019, 11:26 PM   #56
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Over the years I've talked to several people who have indicated that very same thing. In fact years ago I had a chance to buy a complete Ardun engine and was advised if I was going to spend that money, it would be better spent on the reproductions.
Well . . . as somebody who has the good fortune (or lunacy!) to understand both, the answer is in the details and expectations:

1) Original or Repop: Nobody can claim to know the exact number of real sets of original heads, but it surely seems to be under 1000 sets - many say in the 3 - 5 hundreds. (I've never seen a serial number with 4 digits - and nothing over 700 - and nothing lower than 300).

2) Does Original Matter to You: So - if you care about "originals", then one can ask the question . . . "Hmmmm, so how many are actually still here in the world???". I don't know the answer, but probably far less than were actually produced. So the point is that original always matters . . . at least to many of us. It also matters to future value . . . at least I hope so.

3) Spending Money - New Versus Original: It kind of comes down to would you rather have an old 32 roadster that you need to restore, fix, repair, etc . . . or a Brookville? There is no "right" answer to that question - but it is one that you have to consider. But, the overall VALUE can come into play . . . what is a mint original 32 Roadster worth . . . compared to a brand, spanking new Brookville? You get my point . . .

4) Old and New: Don Ferguson (and Don Orosco before him) have done all of us Ardun fans a huge favor. By reproducing and improving the heads and associated rocker-arms, valve covers, lifters, etc - they have actually enabled a lot of old, moldy and forgotten Ardun heads/engines to be brought back to life. This gives the HotRod world plenty of options . . . you can buy original stuff (and probably do a ton of work to get them back into running shape), you can buy a brand-new package from Don and be ready to rock in a very short period of time . . . or some combination of the both. Don has rebuilt, helped and supported MANY guys who did not buy his complete head kit . . . kudos to him!

My Experiences: I originally met Don's Dad - Don Sr - back in the "Taco Shop" days (1970's - Joe Reath introduced me to them) - I have the utmost respect for Don, his products and his family. They have never been about "big profits" - more along the line of a passion for what we do . . . and maybe a few $$$ to help pay for his/ours hobby. For all the trouble it takes to produce the "new" Ardun heads . . . it isn't like the 'sales' are a big money maker. (It is about love/dedication to our world)

I have personally bought a lot of parts from Don - to help me get my original Ardun heads back to life. Thank God we have the resources of Don (and his Father Don Sr.) - as they invested in ALL of this decades ago and have helped continue the legacy. They're just a great family of vintage Hotrodders.

The Ardun Story Continues: New . . . old or some hybrid combination - the Ardun story lives because of dedicated folks like Don Ferguson, Ronnie Roadster and a lot of other folks that love these goofy damn Flathead Hemis.

I hope to see MORE of them on the road, in running cars, on the salt and in real Hotrods . . . who gives a crap about another Ardun in yet another museum . . .

Whew - time for bed! LOL
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Old 12-11-2019, 11:39 PM   #57
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Well . . . as somebody who has the good fortune (or lunacy!) to understand both, the answer is in the details and expectations:

1) Original or Repop: Nobody can claim to know the exact number of real sets of original heads, but it surely seems to be under 1000 sets - many say in the 3 - 5 hundreds. (I've never seen a serial number with 4 digits - and nothing over 700 - and nothing lower than 300).

2) Does Original Matter to You: So - if you care about "originals", then one can ask the question . . . "Hmmmm, so how many are actually still here in the world???". I don't know the answer, but probably far less than were actually produced. So the point is that original always matters . . . at least to many of us. It also matters to future value . . . at least I hope so.

3) Spending Money - New Versus Original: It kind of comes down to would you rather have an old 32 roadster that you need to restore, fix, repair, etc . . . or a Brookville? There is no "right" answer to that question - but it is one that you have to consider. But, the overall VALUE can come into play . . . what is a mint original 32 Roadster worth . . . compared to a brand, spanking new Brookville? You get my point . . .

4) Old and New: Don Ferguson (and Don Orosco before him) have done all of us Ardun fans a huge favor. By reproducing and improving the heads and associated rocker-arms, valve covers, lifters, etc - they have actually enabled a lot of old, moldy and forgotten Ardun heads/engines to be brought back to life. This gives the HotRod world plenty of options . . . you can buy original stuff (and probably do a ton of work to get them back into running shape), you can buy a brand-new package from Don and be ready to rock in a very short period of time . . . or some combination of the both. Don has rebuilt, helped and supported MANY guys who did not buy his complete head kit . . . kudos to him!

My Experiences: I originally met Don's Dad - Don Sr - back in the "Taco Shop" days (1970's - Joe Reath introduced me to them) - I have the utmost respect for Don, his products and his family. They have never been about "big profits" - more along the line of a passion for what we do . . . and maybe a few $$$ to help pay for his/ours hobby. For all the trouble it takes to produce the "new" Ardun heads . . . it isn't like the 'sales' are a big money maker. (It is about love/dedication to our world)

I have personally bought a lot of parts from Don - to help me get my original Ardun heads back to life. Thank God we have the resources of Don (and his Father Don Sr.) - as they invested in ALL of this decades ago and have helped continue the legacy. They're just a great family of vintage Hotrodders.

The Ardun Story Continues: New . . . old or some hybrid combination - the Ardun story lives because of dedicated folks like Don Ferguson, Ronnie Roadster and a lot of other folks that love these goofy damn Flathead Hemis.

I hope to see MORE of them on the road, in running cars, on the salt and in real Hotrods . . . who gives a crap about another Ardun in yet another museum . . .

Whew - time for bed! LOL
As I remember, and this was quite a few years ago, the heads were numbered in the low 100's. As an aside, I also had a chance to buy Don Ferguson's 1934 Bonneville car. No one knew the history of the car at that time. I friend of mine owned it and I actually drove the car. The car was featured in Rodder's Journal issue #44. If only I knew.

Last edited by flatjack9; 12-11-2019 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 12-12-2019, 04:08 AM   #58
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It cost me last yr to do a bone stock 21 stud '36 LB motor $1200 in parts(+$150 in shipping to France) and $1200 in machine work and labor.Located all the parts(pistons,rings,valves,lifters & bearings) on EBAY.C& G for the gasket set.Boring without removing the studs,turning the crank,setting the valves and reassembly done here in France.I thought I did good.

In or around 2008 I assisted in selling off an estate in West Covina,CA.In that load was an early and mint complete set of Ardun heads.The Valve covers said "Ardun Made in England" I failed to note the number that was on them.Story goes that they came from Blairs Speed Shop and had been run only once. Had them on EBAY for 24 hrs before I killed the auction.Had to many curious questions .Because of that listing I met a fellow(Wasted Willie) who has 6 sets and 3 of those were NOS in their boxes.He has since passed away.

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Old 12-12-2019, 04:46 AM   #59
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

What Rod is describing sounds like a freshen up not a complete rebuild. A $1500 to $2200
Motor at best.
We are out in California and it costs $6500 to build a stock Flathead with all good parts.
You want to go with all the goodies it can run $8-10k
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:12 AM   #60
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What Rod is describing sounds like a freshen up not a complete rebuild. A $1500 to $2200
Motor at best.
We are out in California and it costs $6500 to build a stock Flathead with all good parts.
You want to go with all the goodies it can run $8-10k
The motor I posted in my build thread would have been around $9-10K if I added up all the parts I already had for it. No shortcuts and all premium parts and the best machine work and person putting it together. I have no regrets.
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:54 AM   #61
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

Picked my short block assembly from the machinist a couple weeks back. Total bill with tax was CAN$2,400, but I supplied the parts I previously posted. Of that, only $900 was for labour to clean and assemble the block which to me was very reasonable, but the engine was disassembled when I brought it too him. The cost for the rod and main bearing was $700! which really surprised me. There was also the cost of the crank regrind plus shipping in there which was about $350.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:23 AM   #62
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The motor I posted in my build thread would have been around $9-10K if I added up all the parts I already had for it. No shortcuts and all premium parts and the best machine work and person putting it together. I have no regrets.
Given who you had build it and what it now is . . . that is a fair price. You'd have spent a lot more with some of the boys on the Westest Coast - and I'd place bets that the engine you have is a better engine (for your purposes), than if you'd gone many other places.

Good luck . . . now get it fired up for us! LOL

B&S
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:41 PM   #63
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I had heard that the reproduction heads had several improvements over the originals that made them an overall better setup. Id this not true?





Not really true the Ardun engine in my roadster is all original to date its the highest mileage set of original Ardun heads out there. Been to the West coast twice last round trip over 7000 trouble free miles with a blower on top no less. Also many thousands of miles here on the East coast. Theres details needed to make the heads work perfectly especially oiling improvements. Everything i designed myself in the garage typical back yard Hotroding. The drive train in my roadster I will say has seen a lot of strain from using the options that be the loud pedal but other than hurting the fuel economy that being the only draw back. So a proper combination using original heads is just as good as the new heads.


Dale the most recent set of Ardun heads i just acquired are in the low 200 number range. To add more actual facts to the Ardun head history I personally talked to Zora in 1991 at Watkins Glen where I asked him during lunch what the total production number was for heads he told me between 225 to 250 sets. And a final note the Ardun engine in Zoras 1951 pre production Allard he ran at the Glen in 1951 was powered by the first prototype Ardun engine the one used on the dyno at the Ardun Engine Company in NY that engine was purchased by Joaquin Arnett from San Diego of the Bean Bandits car club. I was able to see those heads earlier this year and they actually have four numbers with the number 1 as the first digit the only know set that way. The heads were cast out in Long Island the foundry used for the initial parts. Theres lots more to the history including George Kudash who in 1947 did the actual design of the heads working for Zora. George lived in Milford CT about a 30 minute ride form me He worked for Sikorsky designing systems for helicopters until retirement.

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Old 12-12-2019, 06:33 PM   #64
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It cost me last yr to do a bone stock 21 stud '36 LB motor $1200 in parts(+$150 in shipping to France) and $1200 in machine work and labor.Located all the parts(pistons,rings,valves,lifters & bearings) on EBAY.C& G for the gasket set.Boring without removing the studs,turning the crank,setting the valves and reassembly done here in France.I thought I did good.

In or around 2008 I assisted in selling off an estate in West Covina,CA.In that load was an early and mint complete set of Ardun heads.The Valve covers said "Ardun Made in England" I failed to note the number that was on them.Story goes that they came from Blairs Speed Shop and had been run only once. Had them on EBAY for 24 hrs before I killed the auction.Had to many curious questions .Because of that listing I met a fellow(Wasted Willie) who has 6 sets and 3 of those were NOS in their boxes.He has since passed away.

So this is my halfpenny addition to this thread. I have always desired a set of Ardun heads but never owned as of yet. In 1976 I looked at 2 sets of brand new in greasy cosmoline paper in Warren Goodalls shop in Sydney Australia. Early 2000s seem another brand new set while waiting for LA Roadster show swap meet to open owned by another Aussie (name escapes me)oh he sells that new 34 roadster pickup body. They were over the top complete. He told me he collected parts from all over Aussie to make complete.
Now late 1990’s held on to another low mileage set at Pete Taylor’s shop here in Charlotte they were ready to bolt on a short block he had built. Not for sale at the time. Purchased from Speedy Thompson on Monroe rd here in Charlotte many years earlier & supposedly raced by Ralf Earnhart (Dales Dad) He later sold them to “Wasted Willie Glass” (I was also blessed to meet Willie in 90’s) after Willie’s passing Ray Everingham purchased several of not all of Willie’s heads & has some for sale now. Sorry for my tale.
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:45 PM   #65
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

My friend Dave Harvey, biught one of the first set offered in 1950/51 for $ 505. Can't remember the exact date. Installed on aSsears rebuilt block, never ran right. I bought an Ardun engine complete for $ 300, Wish I still had it, but????
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:51 PM   #66
Bored&Stroked
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

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Hey Ronnie - interesting note on the low number heads that you have. The funny thing is that they must not have made all the number sequential - or they would have had to make more than 225 - 250 sets. Who knows . . . it is not really important anyway as none of us can really know how many are still around the planet. I'm sure a lot of them were "lost" along the way. Are you running the stock rockers in your 32 . . . or a set from Ferguson?
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:17 PM   #67
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Default Re: What is the price of a rebuilt flathead??

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Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
Hey Ronnie - interesting note on the low number heads that you have. The funny thing is that they must not have made all the number sequential - or they would have had to make more than 225 - 250 sets. Who knows . . . it is not really important anyway as none of us can really know how many are still around the planet. I'm sure a lot of them were "lost" along the way. Are you running the stock rockers in your 32 . . . or a set from Ferguson?


Hi Dale the reason the head numbers are all over the place was due to the fact when a set was sold at the New York office a call was then placed to England where the foundry was located that made all the parts. Once a pair of heads was ready to ship to NY the serial numbers were then stamped on the heads. Since this took place at random times after a while no sequence was used just random numbers were eventually being stamped on the heads. The rocker assembly's I use today are the Ferguson rollers. I changed to the rollers for the added ratio the rollers give. The original rocker assembly's from my high mileage heads still look like new the oiling system I developed provides the needed lubrication that eliminates any wear.
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish.
"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH
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