Headbolt washers!

[DaWizard]

Ok, I have done Searches and come up a lot of opinions and few facts.

What I want is facts since I have had cars with and without headbolt washers.

This morning after a somewhat chili night, I had condensation on the dipstick. Now, mind you, no foaming or discoloration of the oil, so I don't think I have a crack, but I do think the head needs to be retorqued.

Took it out for a spin of about 22 miles today and the temp ran on the high side, around 210° to 220° on water. This is California, I see no need for antifreeze. It used about half gallon of water and it was only an inch under the neck to start. So that hot on a 60° day is way too hot.

So, the head HAS washers under the nuts, the question is, do I just squirt WD40 penetrating oil all around, back them off ¼ turn and torque them back down, or remove the washers, and WHY?

J.C.

[Mike V. Florida]

Note where the wrench is when you place it on the nut. Loosen the nut just enough to loosen it about 1/8 of a turn, then tighten to spec. Take note of the wrench again if in the same place then it already was at spec. Washers make no difference. If it did make a difference the vast majority of the comments you have read would say to use them.

[jfreddie]

Wow, that's hot.
I'd get excited at 190.
I think you may have a circulation issue if you've been using straight water.
There may be a lot of rust/scale buildup, especially around the backside of #4 cyl.
I would try flushing several times and then run straight vinegar for about a week and flush again.
If that doesn't help change the head gasket and plane the head.
I agree with Mike, you don't need washers with the original style head nuts.

[RUNNERBUN]

Washers were not used on original cast iron heads and are not required. I believe washers are only recommended if you are using an alluminiam head.

[1crosscut]

I understand that you do not need freeze protection since you live in a warm climate but... the anti corrosion aspect of antifreeze would be a plus for you in my opinion. You may have rust starting to plug your radiator contributing to your higher temperatures.

[Dave in MD]

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JC,
Ford did not use washers under the head nuts. The nuts should have a raised area on one side only and that side should be against the head. The raised area on the nut serves the same purpose as the washer. I agree your temperature is to high.
Dave

[Mitch//pa]

I also agree your slowly cooking the motor running it that hot... time for a poor man's radiator. Oh and use 50 / 50... not straight water

[tbirdtbird]

maybe this can be the December saga...antifreeze or not

and double check your timing, which is the #1 cause of running too hot

[100IH]

Drain the radiator before the retorquing and removal of the washers if that is what you choose to do. This will stop coolant from spreading across the gasket surfaces. I would look into getting a Gano coolant filter for the upper hose to catch any / all rust contamination that is circulating from the block to the radiator. Would also isolate the radiator from the block by removing hoses and back flush both components. Use antifreeze after a period of using vinegar after the flushing and retorque process.

[DaWizard]

Well, since the rest of the vehicles I am responsible for run this https://www.edoperformance.com/produ...olant-1-gallon I was thinking of doing the same thing for the Tudor as soon as I got the temp down to a workable level.

So, to anti-freeze or not to, and get as much contaminates out that I can, I will be doing the whole back flushing vinegar wash out routine. But I have to get the temp down first, and may take a radiator rod out to start, after I retorque the head.

[Mitch//pa]

This has been discussed extensively search "evans coolant". FYI
Here is one:::

https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...=Evans+coolant

Dont forget what Dave mentioned about the timing

[tbirdtbird]

...

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

maybe this can be the December saga...antifreeze or not

and double check your timing, which is the #1 cause of running too hot

Decembers saga could be Does late timing or advanced timing cause over heating :-) did i say that? Should i post it? Yes we need something to talk about

[C26Pinelake]

Sometimes money not spent is not money saved. You are well on the way to destroying your engine. You will bake or boil the life out of it. Wayne.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

AND, DON'T loosen head nuts, when RE-TORQUEING!!!!! WHY ask for trouble?
Bill W.

[DaWizard]

Just an FWI. Pulled the radiator to take it and get it cleaned tomorrow. Also pulled water pump, and looked into the head from w/p hole and it is only a weeeee bit brown, scraped the screwdriver on the inside of head, nothing, nothing comes loose, so I am taking that as a good sign.

[Mikeinnj]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

maybe this can be the December saga...antifreeze or not

and double check your timing, which is the #1 cause of running too hot

Also check what your spark plugs look like. Pull a few out and if If the porcelain is white in color the engine could be running too lean, a problem that could be caused by dirt or debris in the tank, the fuel line or in the carburetor.This also can cause an engine to run hot.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

RUST FLAKES stuck in the top of radiator tubes, is the most COMMON cause of overheating! BACKFLUSH it, once or twice a year.
Bill Mediumwarm

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by DaWizard

Ok, I have done Searches and come up a lot of opinions and few facts.

What I want is facts since I have had cars with and without headbolt washers.

This morning after a somewhat chili night, I had condensation on the dipstick. Now, mind you, no foaming or discoloration of the oil, so I don't think I have a crack, but I do think the head needs to be retorqued.

Took it out for a spin of about 22 miles today and the temp ran on the high side, around 210° to 220° on water. This is California, I see no need for antifreeze. It used about half gallon of water and it was only an inch under the neck to start. So that hot on a 60° day is way too hot.

So, the head HAS washers under the nuts, the question is, do I just squirt WD40 penetrating oil all around, back them off ¼ turn and torque them back down, or remove the washers, and WHY?

J.C.

Make sure the washers are grade 8. The nuts will dig into a soft washer and be harder to turn which will skew the torque reading.
Also, why use WD40? Are you trying to remove moisture from the nuts? WD40 stands for "Water Displacing, formula #40". It's not much of a lubricant! Nor a very good penetrant!

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

AND, DON'T loosen head nuts, when RE-TORQUEING!!!!! WHY ask for trouble?
Bill W.

Loosening the nuts (one at a time) accounts for "stiction".

[100IH]

In response to Mikeinnj's post above, I would like to add - a coolant leak in any cylinder will raise the temperature in that hole and will also clean house on the oily residue and the hard carbon deposits, all visible on the plugs and the top of the piston.

[Mitch//pa]

I have also seen the porcelain that surrounds the electrode on the spark plug get a hair line crack from firing in a cylinder that has a HG issue

[DaWizard]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Make sure the washers are grade 8. The nuts will dig into a soft washer and be harder to turn which will skew the torque reading.
Also, why use WD40? Are you trying to remove moisture from the nuts? WD40 stands for "Water Displacing, formula #40". It's not much of a lubricant! Nor a very good penetrant!

Obviously you have not been shopping for a penetrant lately. WD40 has one!! The line is not just limited to displacing water anymore. Since I can't find Maltbees anymore, now, back in the day, THAT was a penetrant!

One problem with checking the washers for the grade is, they are already under the nuts and tight, somewhat. So, IF I decide to check for the Rockwell, I will just remove them all together. Also, just so there is no confusion, the Grade on a bolt is a shear strength test, not a pressure/smash/squash test.

So, I think with all the opinions and conjecture I will just spool up that rusty hard drive and go with what I remember from my childhood and growing up with Model A's. Clean the radiator to make sure it is still good, maybe make a new water pump, toss a set of points in the distributor and reset the timing, and make this run like it should.

[Bob C]

You can still get Maltbees but you have to buy a case. http://maltbystore.com/

Bob

[ian Simpson]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

I understand that you do not need freeze protection since you live in a warm climate but... the anti corrosion aspect of antifreeze would be a plus for you in my opinion. You may have rust starting to plug your radiator contributing to your higher temperatures.

x2

the anti corrosion aspect of antifreeze would be a plus for you in my opinion.