The Ford Barn

Clem Clement · 10-11-2014, 11:10 AM

I'm studying the signs of what is happening and what our future is:

What do you guys think about the trends for Hershey?

I saw the huge effect of eBay both on prices and lowering amount of goods

the crowd was strong, but down some

I sold Model A parts well, but many were AR and therefore interest.

I saw lots of gray hair and not so many of the next generation

Many say the next generation is of a turn Key mentality and doesn't want to fix up old cars just for the fun of it.

There was about 15% vacant booths. One of the AACA tent guys said they had sold 9000 spaces and had 8000 available. I don't believe those numbers.

Folks were certainly friendly as always.

I learned so much:
1) early Model A doors had flat inside structural steel. Later the strength grooves were added.

2) I have a Script head. I was told that is was later Ford manufacture and that it was for the industrial engines. A fellow said that was a diamond head". he showed me the diamond(I has not seen it as the diamond was buried in goo. It is near the water pump mount.)

Folks are so willing to share info. this is a great part of this hobby.

Other comments, please!

msmaron · 10-11-2014, 11:16 AM

The Diamond Block..."Diamond"

AL in NY · 10-11-2014, 11:38 AM

Mark, that photo is upside down. Hard to recognize.

msmaron · 10-11-2014, 11:46 AM

The infamous "Diamond" Block and Symbol

Wick · 10-11-2014, 12:19 PM

I learned a lot from A and T folks. I would like to have 3-4 spaces instead of 2 And contact the AACA all season. Just cannot get them...yet there's plenty of spaces open.
I sold plenty of A parts, I only sold a 25 T engine block. Cans, service station items, Flat Head v8 speed parts moved quickly. Friday was my best Day! Windshield wipers sold well on Friday.
People were Great and Happy. I found everything I was looking for. Rode my Bike every evening.

Terry,NJ · 10-11-2014, 12:31 PM

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Clem, I too, saw those same signs. Part of the reason for less attendance is the GDed state of Pennsylvania harassing dealers with their record keeping and taxing requirements! Yes, the gray to black and brown hair colors were skewed towards the gray. Once again, I blame the govt with it's pollution controls. How's a kid going to get interested in something that he can't fool around with a little? I think this aspect might be stressed when talking to the younger crowd, Maybe not. I agree about Ebay and CL (to a lesser extent) Also, I have a hard time believing that some of the dealers ever owned a model A or any other classic car for that matter. They seem to know so little about them! They're just there for the money. When the money goes, they'll go with it. However, It's not a time to be bleak, Did you enjoy the show? will you enjoy it next year? I did and will!
I can always hope that there will be a surge of interest with this or that model and it will come back again. Hey! I saw two Teslas on the road when I was in California! Who knows?
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clem Clement

I'm studying the signs of what is happening and what our future is:

What do you guys think about the trends for Hershey?

I saw the huge effect of eBay both on prices and lowering amount of goods

the crowd was strong, but down some

I sold Model A parts well, but many were AR and therefore interest.

I saw lots of gray hair and not so many of the next generation

Many say the next generation is of a turn Key mentality and doesn't want to fix up old cars just for the fun of it.

There was about 15% vacant booths. One of the AACA tent guys said they had sold 9000 spaces and had 8000 available. I don't believe those numbers.

Folks were certainly friendly as always.

I learned so much:
1) early Model A doors had flat inside structural steel. Later the strength grooves were added.

2) I have a Script head. I was told that is was later Ford manufacture and that it was for the industrial engines. A fellow said that was a diamond head". he showed me the diamond(I has not seen it as the diamond was buried in goo. It is near the water pump mount.)

Folks are so willing to share info. this is a great part of this hobby.

Other comments, please!

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-11-2014, 12:36 PM

what do you guys think about the trends for hershey?

i saw the huge effect of ebay both on prices and lowering amount of goods the crowd was strong, but down some
Clem, i think the overall perceived costs of Hershey are lowering the attendance some. To a large sum of attendees, it is a social event and is treated as such. For me, my hotel bill was almost $850 with tax/etc., I spent another $100 for food, and another $200 on fuel. Sure i could have slept in the back of a car, made Bologna sandwiches, and skimped in other ways like many did a few decades ago but I do not enjoy that.

My point is it really isn't the hobby that is the cause of the downturn but the logistics in general. When you do an internet search on the Quality Inn in Hershey where I stayed, you find rates starting at $74.00, ...yet I was charged an avg. of $205 a nite + tax for the four nites I was there. I didn't complain to them because all hotels in the area are doing this.

i sold model a parts well, but many were ar and therefore interest.
I purchased some of your better early '28 parts, ...and this year it seemed there was interest in that era. It is always a gamble of what people are looking for. Next year it may be e-v8 ford parts. It also goes that top-quality original parts of any marque have interest. Then it boils down to if it is perceived at a value. I paid $1,000 for a nos 1928 radiator shell this year because i wanted/needed it. If it had been a nos 1930 shell, I probably would not have been a buyer unless it would have been $750 or less. Not saying it would not have been worth more, ...just not to me.

i saw lots of gray hair and not so many of the next generation many say the next generation is of a turn-key mentality and doesn't want to fix up old cars just for the fun of it.
Again, the "next generation" is not as interested in researching for themselves what to purchase. Places like this Forum have made it easier to search for information and parts, ...and as stated above, -a whole lot cheaper!!

There was about 15% vacant booths. One of the aaca tent guys said they had sold 9000 spaces and had 8000 available. I don't believe those numbers.
Maybe what he meant was there was 8,000 of them being used solely for parking their cars on! There seems to be a growing trend of parking a modern vehicle on a space, set up a small card table, lay out a few absolutely worthless items along with a coffee can for money to be deposited into, and then leave the space only to return that evening.

I feel certain they could eliminate at least one field --and maybe two entire fields if AACA mandated NO motorhomes, campers, -or vehicles other than trailers and AACA-eligible vehicles on the spaces. Boy, talk about controversial outcrys then!! Personally I feel it would be good for the entire hobby with the exception of the money the Hershey region makes.

The reason i feel it would be good for the meet as a whole is some folks who are not serious would likely quit coming, ...which lowers the price of area hotel rooms due to more availability. It cuts down on how much walking must be done to search for parts, and it returns it to the original intended event. I think this is one reason why the Chickasha swap meet is as popular as it is.

folks were certainly friendly as always.

I learned so much:
1) early model a doors had flat inside structural steel. Later the strength grooves were added.

2) i have a script head. I was told that is was later ford manufacture and that it was for the industrial engines. A fellow said that was a diamond head". He showed me the diamond(i has not seen it as the diamond was buried in goo. It is near the water pump mount.)
Yes, I also saw that but did not comment.

folks are so willing to share info. This is a great part of this hobby.

Other comments, please!
The one thing I am waiting to happen is some 'techie-geek' will make an I-phone hershey searching app where folks can upload up to 25 searchable items per space. Clem, in your case you could have uploaded 1928 ford brake parts as one. Tubular radiator support rods as another, powerhouse radiator outlet tube as yet another that would include a condition, keyword such as part number, etc. Then people like me would pay $10 to download the app to help me search the fields for items I need. I could 'report' certain items that were misrepresented or that had been sold. In your case, it would be to your advantage to delete and upload another item when one of yours sold to keep a full 25 items up on the list.

Just think of this from a financial perspective, if there was 5,000 vendors/spaces who chose to subscribe, that is $50k, plus if only 25,000 of the 100,000 estimated buying attendees subscribed, that that is $250k for a total of $300k for the week. That is one area i think the future of this hobby will go in the next few years!!

.
.
.

bart78 · 10-11-2014, 12:58 PM

Growing up here in Texas. We went to Pates every year. Then they moved it and it got so big. It's a pain in the butt to drive up to that area of the metroplex. And deal with all the traffic. The Decatur swap meet is a pretty good one to go to. It's just so much easier to look for stuff online. A lot of these things are starting to get just like the gun shows. Way to many people. And more and more people selling crap that really is not related. Now that I have made quite a few contacts. I have people that tell me where stuff is. Or give my number to people that have cars or parts. You would be amazed at what all insurance guys see when they go to look at properties.

P.S. · 10-11-2014, 01:54 PM

All you have to do to get young people interested is make it affordable again.

Parts and car prices are continuously headed north, and that is the single biggest factor. You guys always have a story or two about the $50 Model A you drove home and fixed up when you were however old (young). Nowadays, a Model A you could drive home will set you back closer to $10K. That is WAY outside the budget of a teen with a paper route and a girlfriend with whom they have made it to 1st base.

Let the flames begin...

Brent is right about the cost of going to Hershey. That is brutal.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-11-2014, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bart78

Growing up here in Texas. We went to Pates every year.

Did you go in the first years when we were all set-up in the lower pasture at the Pate's ranch? In those beginning years, us kids all chased each other down in those dry river beds and even played on the bucking-barrel up next to the house.

Do you remember when there were guys flying to the swap meet in their planes and landing in the field beside the house? Later that became swap meet area as the meet grew.

bart78 · 10-11-2014, 02:55 PM

Yes we went back when it was at the old location. There at the museum. When I first started going it was in the early eighties. I would go with my uncle. He would drive a car over there to sell. And my aunt would follow. When it was there it was only a 45 minute drive. Now the place is a housing development.

Willie Krash · 10-11-2014, 03:14 PM

I help put on a couple of antique shows a year. Dealers are shrinking as age takes hold. Most of the issues are centered around cost. Fuel cost and hotels take much of the profit away. As to eBay it does create interest in the hobby as many can make the leap with a parts supply. The downside is buying cheap has become difficult as eBay has become a pricing metric.
I also think the young and growth is of upmost importance. Trouble is if they have an education they are in debt and I know youngins flippin burgers and they have college degrees.
My generation had Ford, GM etc...For many blue collar kids today, their Ford is now Burger King.
I think the Ford Barn is the most valuable tool we have and the people here have proved it. Thank you all.

Bob Bidonde · 10-11-2014, 03:35 PM

I agree our hobby and many others will take a downturn as discretionary cash goes into the high costs of living and higher taxes.

Taking into consideration the crappy USA economy, it is hard for the younger generations to get a toehold for the basics of living, so it's not likely they will have the money to get into Model A's. It is unfortunate that we are not leaving our kids and grandchildren the good economy that gave us the discretionary bucks to get into the Model A hobby.

I am restoring my last car, and it is very costly even doing most of the work myself. $25,000 can be spent for restoration to achieve a reasonable touring quality car. Show cars are for those with financial means well beyond the middle class.

The best we gray beards can do is to leave our Model A's and Model A literature to our kids and grandchildren.

mshmodela · 10-11-2014, 03:36 PM

Well I write software for a buck and enjoy the therapy of learning about my car and how to fix it. At 51, I think all will be fine with these cars.. The hobby and cars will change a little but all wil be fine.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-11-2014, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshmodela

Well I write software for a buck ...

So are you the one that will write an app for swap meet parts searches and make the millions to finance your massive car collection?

bart78 · 10-11-2014, 04:05 PM

The problem that will come in the future. Will be the younger generation that lives away from the bigger cities. In towns like mine. There are a few older guys that have A's. And drive them occasionally. But the younger guys are few and far between. There is nothing to get them interested. The older guys really could care less about talking about them. I was talking to a guy the other day about cars. And the guy with him I know has a couple of A's. And he never said one word to me about them. I really did not care. Anyone that knows the guy. Knows he is a ass and would rather not talk to him. I really think it's going to take a lot of work. If people really want to keep the stock hobby alive. I know a few hot rod guys. That are willing to talk and teach people anything.

gwhite · 10-11-2014, 05:02 PM

I'm a mid 30-something in a large suburban area...there are quite a few guys close to my age that are interested but the time and cost to attend an event like Hershey makes it very difficult. As Brent said, this is the draw of Chickasha - I've gone the past 3 years and have single-handedly brought the average age down by a good ten years

I've also experienced the exact opposite of bart78; many of the guys here have been a huge help - taking the time to answer PM's, emails, and/or phone calls to help answer my questions. I've also had the pleasure of buying parts from some of our more 'seasoned' members and have found them plenty hospitable - more often than not it involves plenty of conversation and a tour of their shop/collection rather than simply and exchange of cash and goods.

From my perspective, I think us young fellas need to step up and be the ambassadors of our hobby to our pals. I'm amazed at how many guys & gals my age think a vintage car is unobtainable with the financial constraints of kids, a mortgage, and student loan payments....a running one - perhaps, but I put less in my roadster project each year than most of my peers put into playing golf or buying the latest electronic device.

That's my wooden nickel.

Cool Hand Lurker · 10-11-2014, 05:42 PM

You have to have a reason to like old cars, Model A's or Model T's. The biggest reason is memories of what was there when you were a kid. Very few people go into a hobby that is totally new to them unless they tag along with someone in the hobby. Model T guys are old or gone. Model A guys who grew up with them are getting old and the memories die with them, they can't be passed on except in a story and that just isn't the same. Unfortunately the memories of the younger crowd are for the muscle cars and street rods that were around when they were growing up. There is a limit as to how long you can keep something alive, especially if they are 85 years old already. Like the Model A and Model T. Sad but true.

eeyore · 10-11-2014, 05:43 PM

Brent your idea of an app is a great idea for everyone so much time could be saved trying to look and missing seeing something that an app would help you find, and yes it would be a money maker and when time is money everyone would win.

DJ S · 10-11-2014, 05:43 PM

I'm 15 years old and I'd have to say the biggest set back i have is finance. Almost ever day I look at local listings search for good deals. Even when I find decent deals, it will cost me a fortune! Most cars that are in my price range don't run and need lots of work. As you all know, engine rebuilds aren't cheap, expecially when you're 15 years old working at minimum wage.

ct1932ford · 10-11-2014, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ S

I'm 15 years old and I'd have to say the biggest set back i have is finance. Almost ever day I look at local listings search for good deals. Even when I find decent deals, it will cost me a fortune! Most cars that are in my price range don't run and need lots of work. As you all know, engine rebuilds aren't cheap, expecially when you're 15 years old working at minimum wage.

Your 15 and working! That alone gives me hope. Keep plugging away you are going to be fine. Yes Hershey has changed over the years but I see many younger guys getting into it from all over the world. Many are now into traditional hot rods like me. I am 67 and have been doing this hot rod thing since I was 14. Sure my first few endeavors never made it to the street, but as time went by I was driving my first 32 five window and the rest is history. I now have 2 32's and I still appreciate all vintage automobiles. Again keep at it and have fun. I have my reservations made for Hershey next year.

bart78 · 10-11-2014, 06:21 PM

I've also experienced the exact opposite of bart78; many of the guys here have been a huge help - taking the time to answer PM's, emails, and/or phone calls to help answer my questions. I've also had the pleasure of buying parts from some of our more 'seasoned' members and have found them plenty hospitable - more often than not it involves plenty of conversation and a tour of their shop/collection rather than simply and exchange of cash and goods.

I'm not talking about the guys on here. I'm talking about the local guys in my area.

gwhite · 10-11-2014, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bart78

I'm not talking about the guys on here. I'm talking about the local guys in my area.

I am as well...there are several Ford Barn'ers within a comfortable driving distance from me. Stephenvile isn't very far from Fort Worth; have you tried connecting with a Model A club there?

bart78 · 10-11-2014, 07:47 PM

I've had contact with a couple of the early v8 guys. I'm actually going to be getting a few v8's for a guy on here when it gets colder. They have to all be pulled from the cars. We very rarely go to the city. Really don't ever have the time to. With all the activities the kids have with school. There are a couple of guys here local that are pretty nice. But are at the age that they don't do to much anymore. Where are you from gwhite?

BlueSunoco · 10-11-2014, 07:56 PM

Most of us on here would consider ourselves 'middle class'. Unfortunately, there are individuals in power who are/ and have been working hard to destroy the middle class. So that they can line their velvet pockets with more cash.

Sad but true. And we will see this continue on into the future in this country that's just the way it's shaping up to be.

The good folks from 'down under' are here in droves buying cars and having them sent home. 20 years ago it was the Japanese. I guess things just go in cycles

marty in Ohio · 10-11-2014, 09:54 PM

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For my two cents - I think people collect what they remember. In this case I should be working on the '68 Roadrunner that I had when I was young, but today that car would be worth $75,000. Not many remember a car that was built 85 years ago, but at car shows I'm trying to teach them as much as I can. Model A's are still moderately priced and a great hobby. I was only at Hershey for a day and a half, but had a great time!

Brother Hesekiel · 10-11-2014, 10:25 PM

I'm still at Hershey, at the Value Inn to top it off, being charged $281 a night at a 2-star dump, and I'll be here 'til Sunday night as I didn't get an earlier flight out. I did all of the parts rows, yet could find the one part I was looking for -- an original quail hood ornament -- went to the RM auction and the show today. I chalk it up as fun, and took lots of photos.

Why worry about the future of the hobby? Don't you have your cars? If you do, you're set, and what difference does it make if in 2030 or 2050 still people are buying Model A's? I've seen some amazing cars, among them a 1931 Chrysler Roadster, First Junior, Senior, Grand National winner, asked the 70-something year-old owner if he ever drives his amazing car and he responded from the trailer to the lawn and back. "The undercarriage is so clean . . . you can touch it with white gloves and they won't get dirty!" How much fun? Guess he's planing on driving it when he gets old. I, on the other hand, love driving my A roadster, because it's as sexy as it gets, drives great, and parts are readily available. And I really don't care if I get $8K, $18K, or $28K for it when I'll reach the point where I'll be too old or too sick to drive. I live today, and I enjoy every single day.

At the show where two original Mercer Raceabouts, a 1910 and a 1911. Both original, unrestored, and well used. They were so cool that I got an erection looking at them. Better than sex? You bet! That's what these cars are all about: driving them like it's 19xx. No regrets, no worries. Just plain, unadultered fun.

Roadster62 · 10-11-2014, 11:57 PM

Got home around 8:00, this was my 45th Hershey in a row, they are all great, sure the early ones were better, more parts, lower prices and more of my car firends were alive. They were the guys that loved the hobby and never bitched about its future. Could someone research when all this consern started about getting "young people" in the hobby? I found it on my own when I was ten years old, after building a few AMT models and spending fifty cents on the July 1961 issue of Hot Rod Magazine. Hershey 2014 was fine, sold off enough unwanted things to cut the cost of my '31 Slant Window body in half. Bought a NOS 28-29 sedan/touring rear fender for $150.00. Found a lot of bits for three of my projects, the trailer came home with only half the stuff we left with. Our 2 1/2 old grandson had a great time, watching him have a good time was the best part of the week. The future of the hobby is fine. Bob

gwhite · 10-12-2014, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bart78

I've had contact with a couple of the early v8 guys. I'm actually going to be getting a few v8's for a guy on here when it gets colder. They have to all be pulled from the cars. We very rarely go to the city. Really don't ever have the time to. With all the activities the kids have with school. There are a couple of guys here local that are pretty nice. But are at the age that they don't do to much anymore. Where are you from gwhite?

Katy (out west of Houston)

Terry,NJ · 10-12-2014, 07:37 AM

Welcome to the Ford Barn! I was 15 when I bought my first car, A 49 ford V8 tudor. My only contact with Mod A s was on our family farm, we had two dilapidated AA flatbed trucks. They had been retired to the field by the time I was 15. I never liked riding it them because of the condition of the seats. You got a "Spring injection". My cousin would drive them. And now here I am! I would love to have a 16cyl Cad. or a 12 cyl Packard. I almost bought a 12 cyl. 46/47 Lincoln Continental. But so far, The mod As (I have two) are the only thing that is affordable, (May it always be so that something is)! In your position, You have to "Buy down" as opposed to buying up. Meaning you have to use sweat equity to have your car. Start with a chassis and engine and assemble a body. It's being done all across America. Cars are being built this way. Sure, The daddy Warbucks can buy a perfectly restored, rare bodied fine points car, but not us common folk.
Best of luck!
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ S

I'm 15 years old and I'd have to say the biggest set back i have is finance. Almost ever day I look at local listings search for good deals. Even when I find decent deals, it will cost me a fortune! Most cars that are in my price range don't run and need lots of work. As you all know, engine rebuilds aren't cheap, expecially when you're 15 years old working at minimum wage.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-12-2014, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadster62

They were the guys that loved the hobby and never bitched about its future. Could someone research when all this consern started about getting "young people" in the hobby? Hershey 2014 was fine,... The future of the hobby is fine.

Hey Bob, I had every intention of getting over to visit you and it just never happened! I think there has always been some concern about the future of the hobby but I suspect this is more prevalent now because we live in a 'naysayer world. To me, Success is Attitude, and it is all about perception. If someone's chose to attend Hershey with the attitude of "engaging in the hunt" looking for certain items, then it was a successful event in their mind. If they chose to dwell on the hotel costs, the parts prices, etc., then they likely had a unhappy time.

One final thought with regard to costs, it does NOT take deep pockets or lots of money to restore a Model-A, ...it just takes the mindset to actually restore something yourself with what tools & resources you have available to you at that moment.

jimalabam · 10-12-2014, 09:19 AM

Bart and Terry: Re. Pate and the early years. While in Uncle Sammie' Air Force, and living in Fort Worth, travelled some 21 miles to the Pate touring with my club, The Cowtown A's. Those first years were great, actually would be met and greeted by Aggie himself. Remember when he created the Museum and one piece I vividly remember was a factory wooden buck for a '57 Cadillac El Dorado hanging on the west wall. When our B52's were considered too much of a cold war target, my wing was transferred to another base. Lost contact, and while attending Pate at the speedway many years later, it was just not the same, except too see and visit with some old friends. Thought you might enjoy this tid-bit. Jim Langley...

mhsprecher · 10-12-2014, 09:19 AM

Hard to add much to what others have said, but I will try and add a few things.

I first came to Hershey in 1966 with my best friend and his dad, who had a Reo. No one my age was into old cars back then, but I liked old Fords and bought a Model A. School, work, family, finances and no garage all kept me out of the hobby until two years ago, when I bought another A and now I have two. I suspect I will end up with one or two more of something before all is said and done.

Way back when, you could go to Hershey to the flea market on Saturday. For people who work, what the heck are you going to do now? I had been away from Hershey for a long time and a few years ago went on a Saturday to go to the flea market and everyone was packing up. What is up with that and how long has that been in place? Now, you have to get there on Wednesday to get anything and many folks are packing up on Friday. I went to see Clem and Jim Gray on Friday afternoon and they were all packed up and heading out of town! It was starting to rain, so that may have encouraged them some.

This year I did something a little different. I decided that there were not enough Model As at the show, so I drove my roadster up on Thursday to put it in the Driver Participation Class on Saturday. Maybe we should be called Second Class, because we are off to the side, but it was quite an adventure driving my car up there and back. It did fairly well and was my first really long distance trip in a Model A since I got back into the hobby.

My son would love to restore an old sports car, but he lives in San Francisco, is going to school, shares an apartment, has no time or money, but he has interest. He loves my old cars. He has few, if any, friends are into old cars. When I was a kid, I worked in a gas station, where we repaired cars and a few of us worked on our own and enjoyed it. Nowadays, cars don't break and if they do, you can't fix them. I still do a surprising amount of stuff on my cars: changing the oil, replacing the brakes and other odds and ends as required, but most big stuff I leave to a shop.

Times have changed and in many ways for the better. Cars are not like they were. People are into different things and the economy is not as robust as it was, for sure. Kids don't take shop class in school to learn how to do anything with their hands. We have a terrific community here and we should all be ambassadors for our hobby, driving our cars and doing what we can.

BTW, Brent has a terrific idea about the Hershey app. Link that with Google Maps and you could have a good itinerary. I sure could have used that. I will ponder this and see what can be done.

mshmodela · 10-12-2014, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

So are you the one that will write an app for swap meet parts searches and make the millions to finance your massive car collection?

LOL, no, no, I deal with code that's only for UNIX/Linux systems --that is I don't do Windows Microsoft anything is fighting words

The only bugs with my model a are the ones that might stick to the windshield and it's a pleasure to remove them....

Clem Clement · 10-12-2014, 11:17 AM

We stayed on Saturday one time. Sold nothing. I would love to stay some year. Plus I am now repacking for the huge trains show at York all next week. No rest for the whacked. Nice seeing you Milford

mhsprecher · 10-12-2014, 01:12 PM

Years ago Saturdays were busy, if my memory serves me. Maybe as a teenager, it just seemed busy to me. Maybe not much was sold, so the vendors just quit staying. It also may be that because that is when the cars are judged, the crowds gravitate there.

Thinking through all of this I remembered something I am glad that is in the past - the darned calliope they had way back then. It drove me crazy. I don't now who it belonged, to but you could hear it everywhere, the same thing over and over again.
Good riddance.

BlueSunoco · 10-12-2014, 03:58 PM

Iowa Gas, where they sell and buy petroliana, is listed as a Th-Fri-Sat event but years ago it morphed into Tu-Wed-Th. If you go Thursday P.M or even Friday you're wasting your time because it's all over. There is an auction on Saturday but unless you enjoy paying Ia. State Sales Tax on top of buyer's 'premium' (love THAT term sounds like something good

) plus top dollar for an item, again may as well stay home.

Haven't bothered with that one for years.

10-11-2014, 11:10 AM	#1
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	Future of Hershey and our hobby I'm studying the signs of what is happening and what our future is: What do you guys think about the trends for Hershey? I saw the huge effect of eBay both on prices and lowering amount of goods the crowd was strong, but down some I sold Model A parts well, but many were AR and therefore interest. I saw lots of gray hair and not so many of the next generation Many say the next generation is of a turn Key mentality and doesn't want to fix up old cars just for the fun of it. There was about 15% vacant booths. One of the AACA tent guys said they had sold 9000 spaces and had 8000 available. I don't believe those numbers. Folks were certainly friendly as always. I learned so much: 1) early Model A doors had flat inside structural steel. Later the strength grooves were added. 2) I have a Script head. I was told that is was later Ford manufacture and that it was for the industrial engines. A fellow said that was a diamond head". he showed me the diamond(I has not seen it as the diamond was buried in goo. It is near the water pump mount.) Folks are so willing to share info. this is a great part of this hobby. Other comments, please!

10-11-2014, 11:38 AM	#3
AL in NY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Upstate New York Posts: 1,160	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Mark, that photo is upside down. Hard to recognize. __________________ AL in NY

10-11-2014, 12:19 PM	#5
Wick Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gwynn's Island Va Posts: 1,386	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby I learned a lot from A and T folks. I would like to have 3-4 spaces instead of 2 And contact the AACA all season. Just cannot get them...yet there's plenty of spaces open. I sold plenty of A parts, I only sold a 25 T engine block. Cans, service station items, Flat Head v8 speed parts moved quickly. Friday was my best Day! Windshield wipers sold well on Friday. People were Great and Happy. I found everything I was looking for. Rode my Bike every evening.

10-11-2014, 12:36 PM	#7
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,516	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby what do you guys think about the trends for hershey? i saw the huge effect of ebay both on prices and lowering amount of goods the crowd was strong, but down some Clem, i think the overall perceived costs of Hershey are lowering the attendance some. To a large sum of attendees, it is a social event and is treated as such. For me, my hotel bill was almost $850 with tax/etc., I spent another $100 for food, and another $200 on fuel. Sure i could have slept in the back of a car, made Bologna sandwiches, and skimped in other ways like many did a few decades ago but I do not enjoy that. My point is it really isn't the hobby that is the cause of the downturn but the logistics in general. When you do an internet search on the Quality Inn in Hershey where I stayed, you find rates starting at $74.00, ...yet I was charged an avg. of $205 a nite + tax for the four nites I was there. I didn't complain to them because all hotels in the area are doing this. i sold model a parts well, but many were ar and therefore interest. I purchased some of your better early '28 parts, ...and this year it seemed there was interest in that era. It is always a gamble of what people are looking for. Next year it may be e-v8 ford parts. It also goes that top-quality original parts of any marque have interest. Then it boils down to if it is perceived at a value. I paid $1,000 for a nos 1928 radiator shell this year because i wanted/needed it. If it had been a nos 1930 shell, I probably would not have been a buyer unless it would have been $750 or less. Not saying it would not have been worth more, ...just not to me. i saw lots of gray hair and not so many of the next generation many say the next generation is of a turn-key mentality and doesn't want to fix up old cars just for the fun of it. Again, the "next generation" is not as interested in researching for themselves what to purchase. Places like this Forum have made it easier to search for information and parts, ...and as stated above, -a whole lot cheaper!! There was about 15% vacant booths. One of the aaca tent guys said they had sold 9000 spaces and had 8000 available. I don't believe those numbers. Maybe what he meant was there was 8,000 of them being used solely for parking their cars on! There seems to be a growing trend of parking a modern vehicle on a space, set up a small card table, lay out a few absolutely worthless items along with a coffee can for money to be deposited into, and then leave the space only to return that evening. I feel certain they could eliminate at least one field --and maybe two entire fields if AACA mandated NO motorhomes, campers, -or vehicles other than trailers and AACA-eligible vehicles on the spaces. Boy, talk about controversial outcrys then!! Personally I feel it would be good for the entire hobby with the exception of the money the Hershey region makes. The reason i feel it would be good for the meet as a whole is some folks who are not serious would likely quit coming, ...which lowers the price of area hotel rooms due to more availability. It cuts down on how much walking must be done to search for parts, and it returns it to the original intended event. I think this is one reason why the Chickasha swap meet is as popular as it is. folks were certainly friendly as always. I learned so much: 1) early model a doors had flat inside structural steel. Later the strength grooves were added. 2) i have a script head. I was told that is was later ford manufacture and that it was for the industrial engines. A fellow said that was a diamond head". He showed me the diamond(i has not seen it as the diamond was buried in goo. It is near the water pump mount.) Yes, I also saw that but did not comment. folks are so willing to share info. This is a great part of this hobby. Other comments, please! The one thing I am waiting to happen is some 'techie-geek' will make an I-phone hershey searching app where folks can upload up to 25 searchable items per space. Clem, in your case you could have uploaded 1928 ford brake parts as one. Tubular radiator support rods as another, powerhouse radiator outlet tube as yet another that would include a condition, keyword such as part number, etc. Then people like me would pay $10 to download the app to help me search the fields for items I need. I could 'report' certain items that were misrepresented or that had been sold. In your case, it would be to your advantage to delete and upload another item when one of yours sold to keep a full 25 items up on the list. Just think of this from a financial perspective, if there was 5,000 vendors/spaces who chose to subscribe, that is $50k, plus if only 25,000 of the 100,000 estimated buying attendees subscribed, that that is $250k for a total of $300k for the week. That is one area i think the future of this hobby will go in the next few years!! . . . __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

10-11-2014, 12:58 PM	#8
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Growing up here in Texas. We went to Pates every year. Then they moved it and it got so big. It's a pain in the butt to drive up to that area of the metroplex. And deal with all the traffic. The Decatur swap meet is a pretty good one to go to. It's just so much easier to look for stuff online. A lot of these things are starting to get just like the gun shows. Way to many people. And more and more people selling crap that really is not related. Now that I have made quite a few contacts. I have people that tell me where stuff is. Or give my number to people that have cars or parts. You would be amazed at what all insurance guys see when they go to look at properties.

10-11-2014, 01:54 PM	#9
P.S. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: California Posts: 1,696	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby All you have to do to get young people interested is make it affordable again. Parts and car prices are continuously headed north, and that is the single biggest factor. You guys always have a story or two about the $50 Model A you drove home and fixed up when you were however old (young). Nowadays, a Model A you could drive home will set you back closer to $10K. That is WAY outside the budget of a teen with a paper route and a girlfriend with whom they have made it to 1st base. Let the flames begin... Brent is right about the cost of going to Hershey. That is brutal.

10-11-2014, 02:55 PM	#11
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Yes we went back when it was at the old location. There at the museum. When I first started going it was in the early eighties. I would go with my uncle. He would drive a car over there to sell. And my aunt would follow. When it was there it was only a 45 minute drive. Now the place is a housing development.

10-11-2014, 03:14 PM	#12
Willie Krash Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Phoenix, Oregon Posts: 661	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby I help put on a couple of antique shows a year. Dealers are shrinking as age takes hold. Most of the issues are centered around cost. Fuel cost and hotels take much of the profit away. As to eBay it does create interest in the hobby as many can make the leap with a parts supply. The downside is buying cheap has become difficult as eBay has become a pricing metric. I also think the young and growth is of upmost importance. Trouble is if they have an education they are in debt and I know youngins flippin burgers and they have college degrees. My generation had Ford, GM etc...For many blue collar kids today, their Ford is now Burger King. I think the Ford Barn is the most valuable tool we have and the people here have proved it. Thank you all. __________________ Mike Stitt "A business that make nothing but money is a poor business." -Henry Ford

10-11-2014, 03:35 PM	#13
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,470	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby I agree our hobby and many others will take a downturn as discretionary cash goes into the high costs of living and higher taxes. Taking into consideration the crappy USA economy, it is hard for the younger generations to get a toehold for the basics of living, so it's not likely they will have the money to get into Model A's. It is unfortunate that we are not leaving our kids and grandchildren the good economy that gave us the discretionary bucks to get into the Model A hobby. I am restoring my last car, and it is very costly even doing most of the work myself. $25,000 can be spent for restoration to achieve a reasonable touring quality car. Show cars are for those with financial means well beyond the middle class. The best we gray beards can do is to leave our Model A's and Model A literature to our kids and grandchildren. __________________ Bob Bidonde

10-11-2014, 03:36 PM	#14
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Well I write software for a buck and enjoy the therapy of learning about my car and how to fix it. At 51, I think all will be fine with these cars.. The hobby and cars will change a little but all wil be fine. __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

10-11-2014, 04:05 PM	#16
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby The problem that will come in the future. Will be the younger generation that lives away from the bigger cities. In towns like mine. There are a few older guys that have A's. And drive them occasionally. But the younger guys are few and far between. There is nothing to get them interested. The older guys really could care less about talking about them. I was talking to a guy the other day about cars. And the guy with him I know has a couple of A's. And he never said one word to me about them. I really did not care. Anyone that knows the guy. Knows he is a ass and would rather not talk to him. I really think it's going to take a lot of work. If people really want to keep the stock hobby alive. I know a few hot rod guys. That are willing to talk and teach people anything.

10-11-2014, 05:02 PM	#17
gwhite Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Texas: Where Bob Wills is still the king! Posts: 354	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby I'm a mid 30-something in a large suburban area...there are quite a few guys close to my age that are interested but the time and cost to attend an event like Hershey makes it very difficult. As Brent said, this is the draw of Chickasha - I've gone the past 3 years and have single-handedly brought the average age down by a good ten years I've also experienced the exact opposite of bart78; many of the guys here have been a huge help - taking the time to answer PM's, emails, and/or phone calls to help answer my questions. I've also had the pleasure of buying parts from some of our more 'seasoned' members and have found them plenty hospitable - more often than not it involves plenty of conversation and a tour of their shop/collection rather than simply and exchange of cash and goods. From my perspective, I think us young fellas need to step up and be the ambassadors of our hobby to our pals. I'm amazed at how many guys & gals my age think a vintage car is unobtainable with the financial constraints of kids, a mortgage, and student loan payments....a running one - perhaps, but I put less in my roadster project each year than most of my peers put into playing golf or buying the latest electronic device. That's my wooden nickel.

10-11-2014, 05:42 PM	#18
Cool Hand Lurker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Minn Posts: 1,565	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby You have to have a reason to like old cars, Model A's or Model T's. The biggest reason is memories of what was there when you were a kid. Very few people go into a hobby that is totally new to them unless they tag along with someone in the hobby. Model T guys are old or gone. Model A guys who grew up with them are getting old and the memories die with them, they can't be passed on except in a story and that just isn't the same. Unfortunately the memories of the younger crowd are for the muscle cars and street rods that were around when they were growing up. There is a limit as to how long you can keep something alive, especially if they are 85 years old already. Like the Model A and Model T. Sad but true.

10-11-2014, 05:43 PM	#19
eeyore Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: MADISON, OHIO Posts: 134	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Brent your idea of an app is a great idea for everyone so much time could be saved trying to look and missing seeing something that an app would help you find, and yes it would be a money maker and when time is money everyone would win.

10-11-2014, 05:43 PM	#20
DJ S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Southwick, MA Posts: 590	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby I'm 15 years old and I'd have to say the biggest set back i have is finance. Almost ever day I look at local listings search for good deals. Even when I find decent deals, it will cost me a fortune! Most cars that are in my price range don't run and need lots of work. As you all know, engine rebuilds aren't cheap, expecially when you're 15 years old working at minimum wage.

10-11-2014, 06:21 PM	#22
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby I've also experienced the exact opposite of bart78; many of the guys here have been a huge help - taking the time to answer PM's, emails, and/or phone calls to help answer my questions. I've also had the pleasure of buying parts from some of our more 'seasoned' members and have found them plenty hospitable - more often than not it involves plenty of conversation and a tour of their shop/collection rather than simply and exchange of cash and goods. I'm not talking about the guys on here. I'm talking about the local guys in my area.

10-11-2014, 07:47 PM	#24
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby I've had contact with a couple of the early v8 guys. I'm actually going to be getting a few v8's for a guy on here when it gets colder. They have to all be pulled from the cars. We very rarely go to the city. Really don't ever have the time to. With all the activities the kids have with school. There are a couple of guys here local that are pretty nice. But are at the age that they don't do to much anymore. Where are you from gwhite?

10-11-2014, 07:56 PM	#25
BlueSunoco Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Windy City Posts: 937	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Most of us on here would consider ourselves 'middle class'. Unfortunately, there are individuals in power who are/ and have been working hard to destroy the middle class. So that they can line their velvet pockets with more cash. Sad but true. And we will see this continue on into the future in this country that's just the way it's shaping up to be. The good folks from 'down under' are here in droves buying cars and having them sent home. 20 years ago it was the Japanese. I guess things just go in cycles

10-11-2014, 09:54 PM	#26
marty in Ohio Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Elyria, Ohio Posts: 756	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) For my two cents - I think people collect what they remember. In this case I should be working on the '68 Roadrunner that I had when I was young, but today that car would be worth $75,000. Not many remember a car that was built 85 years ago, but at car shows I'm trying to teach them as much as I can. Model A's are still moderately priced and a great hobby. I was only at Hershey for a day and a half, but had a great time!

10-11-2014, 10:25 PM	#27
Brother Hesekiel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: San Buenaventura, Calif. Posts: 362	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby I'm still at Hershey, at the Value Inn to top it off, being charged $281 a night at a 2-star dump, and I'll be here 'til Sunday night as I didn't get an earlier flight out. I did all of the parts rows, yet could find the one part I was looking for -- an original quail hood ornament -- went to the RM auction and the show today. I chalk it up as fun, and took lots of photos. Why worry about the future of the hobby? Don't you have your cars? If you do, you're set, and what difference does it make if in 2030 or 2050 still people are buying Model A's? I've seen some amazing cars, among them a 1931 Chrysler Roadster, First Junior, Senior, Grand National winner, asked the 70-something year-old owner if he ever drives his amazing car and he responded from the trailer to the lawn and back. "The undercarriage is so clean . . . you can touch it with white gloves and they won't get dirty!" How much fun? Guess he's planing on driving it when he gets old. I, on the other hand, love driving my A roadster, because it's as sexy as it gets, drives great, and parts are readily available. And I really don't care if I get $8K, $18K, or $28K for it when I'll reach the point where I'll be too old or too sick to drive. I live today, and I enjoy every single day. At the show where two original Mercer Raceabouts, a 1910 and a 1911. Both original, unrestored, and well used. They were so cool that I got an erection looking at them. Better than sex? You bet! That's what these cars are all about: driving them like it's 19xx. No regrets, no worries. Just plain, unadultered fun. __________________

10-11-2014, 11:57 PM	#28
Roadster62 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ridgefield, Ct Posts: 3,441	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Got home around 8:00, this was my 45th Hershey in a row, they are all great, sure the early ones were better, more parts, lower prices and more of my car firends were alive. They were the guys that loved the hobby and never bitched about its future. Could someone research when all this consern started about getting "young people" in the hobby? I found it on my own when I was ten years old, after building a few AMT models and spending fifty cents on the July 1961 issue of Hot Rod Magazine. Hershey 2014 was fine, sold off enough unwanted things to cut the cost of my '31 Slant Window body in half. Bought a NOS 28-29 sedan/touring rear fender for $150.00. Found a lot of bits for three of my projects, the trailer came home with only half the stuff we left with. Our 2 1/2 old grandson had a great time, watching him have a good time was the best part of the week. The future of the hobby is fine. Bob __________________ They don't have to run to be enjoyed. I'm here to enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the cars no matter what they look like. Most of the worlds problems are electrical.

10-12-2014, 09:19 AM	#32
jimalabam Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lee County Alabama Posts: 828	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Bart and Terry: Re. Pate and the early years. While in Uncle Sammie' Air Force, and living in Fort Worth, travelled some 21 miles to the Pate touring with my club, The Cowtown A's. Those first years were great, actually would be met and greeted by Aggie himself. Remember when he created the Museum and one piece I vividly remember was a factory wooden buck for a '57 Cadillac El Dorado hanging on the west wall. When our B52's were considered too much of a cold war target, my wing was transferred to another base. Lost contact, and while attending Pate at the speedway many years later, it was just not the same, except too see and visit with some old friends. Thought you might enjoy this tid-bit. Jim Langley...

10-12-2014, 09:19 AM	#33
mhsprecher Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Takoma Park, MD Posts: 2,817	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Hard to add much to what others have said, but I will try and add a few things. I first came to Hershey in 1966 with my best friend and his dad, who had a Reo. No one my age was into old cars back then, but I liked old Fords and bought a Model A. School, work, family, finances and no garage all kept me out of the hobby until two years ago, when I bought another A and now I have two. I suspect I will end up with one or two more of something before all is said and done. Way back when, you could go to Hershey to the flea market on Saturday. For people who work, what the heck are you going to do now? I had been away from Hershey for a long time and a few years ago went on a Saturday to go to the flea market and everyone was packing up. What is up with that and how long has that been in place? Now, you have to get there on Wednesday to get anything and many folks are packing up on Friday. I went to see Clem and Jim Gray on Friday afternoon and they were all packed up and heading out of town! It was starting to rain, so that may have encouraged them some. This year I did something a little different. I decided that there were not enough Model As at the show, so I drove my roadster up on Thursday to put it in the Driver Participation Class on Saturday. Maybe we should be called Second Class, because we are off to the side, but it was quite an adventure driving my car up there and back. It did fairly well and was my first really long distance trip in a Model A since I got back into the hobby. My son would love to restore an old sports car, but he lives in San Francisco, is going to school, shares an apartment, has no time or money, but he has interest. He loves my old cars. He has few, if any, friends are into old cars. When I was a kid, I worked in a gas station, where we repaired cars and a few of us worked on our own and enjoyed it. Nowadays, cars don't break and if they do, you can't fix them. I still do a surprising amount of stuff on my cars: changing the oil, replacing the brakes and other odds and ends as required, but most big stuff I leave to a shop. Times have changed and in many ways for the better. Cars are not like they were. People are into different things and the economy is not as robust as it was, for sure. Kids don't take shop class in school to learn how to do anything with their hands. We have a terrific community here and we should all be ambassadors for our hobby, driving our cars and doing what we can. BTW, Brent has a terrific idea about the Hershey app. Link that with Google Maps and you could have a good itinerary. I sure could have used that. I will ponder this and see what can be done.

10-12-2014, 11:17 AM	#35
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby We stayed on Saturday one time. Sold nothing. I would love to stay some year. Plus I am now repacking for the huge trains show at York all next week. No rest for the whacked. Nice seeing you Milford

10-12-2014, 01:12 PM	#36
mhsprecher Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Takoma Park, MD Posts: 2,817	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Years ago Saturdays were busy, if my memory serves me. Maybe as a teenager, it just seemed busy to me. Maybe not much was sold, so the vendors just quit staying. It also may be that because that is when the cars are judged, the crowds gravitate there. Thinking through all of this I remembered something I am glad that is in the past - the darned calliope they had way back then. It drove me crazy. I don't now who it belonged, to but you could hear it everywhere, the same thing over and over again. Good riddance.

10-12-2014, 03:58 PM	#37
BlueSunoco Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Windy City Posts: 937	Re: Future of Hershey and our hobby Iowa Gas, where they sell and buy petroliana, is listed as a Th-Fri-Sat event but years ago it morphed into Tu-Wed-Th. If you go Thursday P.M or even Friday you're wasting your time because it's all over. There is an auction on Saturday but unless you enjoy paying Ia. State Sales Tax on top of buyer's 'premium' (love THAT term sounds like something good) plus top dollar for an item, again may as well stay home. Haven't bothered with that one for years.