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02-06-2014, 03:18 AM | #1 |
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Antifreeze Leak Help!
I'm having an issue with my Model A and who else better to ask than Fordbarn fellas. :-)
I'm a newbie when it comes to Model A's and their engine so forgive if I sound ignorant. Today I noticed a small antifreeze leak when I fired up my Model A. The leak is coming from the belt shaft that holds the radiator fan.. not sure what it is called but I do have a picture attached that will show you exactly where the leak is coming from. Can you please help me out in figuring out the problem and how to go about it in fixing it? I would really appreciate it so much. Thanks guys! |
02-06-2014, 04:10 AM | #2 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
If it is a original water pump adjust the packing nut the large brass 1 just forward of your leak also grease the pump with water pump grease
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02-06-2014, 04:37 AM | #3 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Thanks for the quick reply, Colin1928!
I told you I was a newbie.. I didn't even know that was the water pump. Ok, I'm learning now. So, you are saying to adjust the packing nut, but as in how? Adjust it by turning either way until it stops leaking? BTW: Yes, It is all original. Thanks for your help, my friend! :-) |
02-06-2014, 05:26 AM | #4 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Hi Get the correct grease and grease it 1st then run the engine a few minutes sometimes thats all that need
if it still leaks the adjuster is std right hand thread try 1/4 to 1/2 turn in careful not to over tighten that will burn the wadding |
02-06-2014, 07:58 AM | #5 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
The water pump is a cause of much discussion and hours of observation over the time you own the car. If the pump is really original I would think a complete overhaul of the pump would be in order. Then you would understand how it is designed and works. Bill G
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02-06-2014, 09:21 AM | #6 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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Secondly that looks like one of the low cost steel packing nuts - not a heavy cast - Brass or Zinc one. The thin stte ones are not even in the catalog anymore. Thin Steel packing nut is not original. This water pump has been rebuilt somewhere in its life. No big thing - just making observation. ken |
02-06-2014, 09:28 AM | #7 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Flipp welcome. Buy books, lots of books. It is the best investment you can make.
Les Andrews book(s) and the Ford service manual. Be patient, sometimes they fix themselves especially if they have been sitting for some time.* Hang out here, great people. *Many people new at this find that the car fixes them! They have quirks and personality. Modern cars are just cars. Years back they were often called "she' and had names, I rest my case.<g>
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02-06-2014, 09:29 AM | #8 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Replace it with a leakless pump it you can't stop the leak
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02-06-2014, 09:40 AM | #9 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
If it was my car I'd replace that 4 blade fan with a new aluminum fan and rebuild the water pump. Rebuilding the pump is easy. When you replace the rear bushing make sure the casting isn't cracked where the bushing fits. I don't worry about a very short crack at the rearmost edge, but some cracks run up to the flange area and then the housing should be replaced. I'd buy the brass bushing with the seal in the rear. Some vendors have a bushing with a double lip, and others have a single lip. I prefer the double lip, but either one should work fine. Be sure to use new lead packing rings (2) in the new packing nut, and put lots of grease around the lead rings as you install them in the nut. My pump done this way has not leaked a drop in over 10 years.
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02-06-2014, 11:41 AM | #10 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Hi Flipp,
Really like your original description of a water pump without using the "water pump" word -- not many could write such an ingenious description of a mechanical item. However, if you remove the water pump, the radiator along with the pump has to mover forward because of having to clear the original protruding water pump studs screwed into the engine head. If you are not too concerned with using 100% original WP studs, Model A vendors sell WP mounting bolts with attached nuts whereby when installed, one does not have to move the radiator & pump forward in order to remove the water pump in the future -- i.e., both the nut & bolt can be removed where one will not have protruding studs to contend with for the next water pump removal. |
02-06-2014, 12:18 PM | #11 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
I agree with Tom and H.L. But I would try this first because the other choices are pretty involved. Drain the coolant below the level of the water pump first, you can pour it back in after this process. Back the packing nut all the way off the threads of the rear bushing and slide the packing nut foward on the shaft. Grease the rear grease fitting untill grease starts coming out around the shaft where it protrudes from the threaded rear bushing. Put some water pump grease in the packing nut with your finger and start the packing nut back on the threaded rear bushing but not tight. Pour the coolant back in the radiator and tighten the packing nut just enough to stop the leak. Don't tighten the packing nut too tight or you will spin the threaded rear bushing and ruin the pump. Just use common sense when tightening the packing nut. If it doesn't stop leaking, you may have to install more packing or rebuild or replace the pump if its cracked. I've used this method on my 29 tudor with good results. Antifreeze leaks in places that plain water doesn't. It usually doesn't get that cold where I live and I just use tap water and water pump lubricant. A small bottle of Gunk water pump lubricant added to the radiator will stop rust in the water jacket and the engine will run cooler with water than antifreeze.
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02-06-2014, 12:57 PM | #12 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Flipp I agree the leekless water pumps work great .The plus feature is you never have to adjust it or grease it.And you do not have to worry about putting in to much grease witch can plug up your radiator and cooling system in the block
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02-06-2014, 12:57 PM | #13 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
I would agree with this because I am not a real original type guy. So it other words, if you are not one to keep everything original, then a leakless pump may be the easy answer. But do buy a good quality leakless pump from one of the quality vendors in the industry (there are a number of them). Also do consider the concerns mentioned above about having to move the radiator forward. If this is a problem, buy books like mentioned above or get some help from someone that may be in a Model A club near you.
Also if you want to adjust the nut to keep it from leaking, most of the vendors sell a tool for that purpose that works much better than a screwdriver or what ever else you may use. Good luck and have fun with your A.
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02-06-2014, 03:07 PM | #14 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Wow!! Thanks, guys!! You all have such great advice for a newbie like me.
I think I'll be getting my hands dirty and approaching the issue the way senior member "Purdy Swoft" suggested first. It'll probably save me from replacing the entire pump if I attempt this fix first. Greasing it and putting it back together doesn't sounds too painful. Besides, I think this is a great way to learn in my opinion. If it continues to leak, then I'll be going with a leakless pump all together like so many of you suggested. I would like to keep it all as original as possible but If replacing the pump with one that isn't original and it will keep me from future headaches then that may just be in order. I buy all of my Model A accessories from Bert's.. Is that a good vendor to buy a leakless pump from if I do need one? Thanks again all for such a great response and for your expertise. |
02-06-2014, 03:16 PM | #15 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Thanks, Berts is one of the best places for parts.
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02-06-2014, 03:18 PM | #16 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
WOW !
We now have "flip" on the west coast, and "flop" on the east coast.
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02-06-2014, 06:01 PM | #17 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Flip in So Cal is where its always sunny. :-) I ended up ordering a fresh new Leakless Water Pump from Bert's just in case the leak doesn't stop. Thanks again guys for all of your help.
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02-06-2014, 06:06 PM | #18 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Order a 2 blade aluminum also, just bend the 4 blades backwards and it will come off without taking the radiator out.
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02-06-2014, 06:12 PM | #19 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Will the 2 blade fan work as effectively as the 4? Whats the advantage of having a 2 blade over a 4 besides the additional space?
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02-06-2014, 08:25 PM | #20 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
The aluminum two blade prop fan has more pitch and moves more air. An added benefit is it looks like the original and is safe. I've had two of the old four blade fans sling a blade that barely missed me.
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02-06-2014, 08:43 PM | #21 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Get rid of the four blade some have been known to come apart. As others have said get the aluminum two blade fan. As was noted the water pump packing nut is junk. It's thin and can break easy. Buy the best leakless pump and new fan combo.
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02-07-2014, 12:33 AM | #22 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Ok guys, I went ahead an bought a whole new leakless pump assembly and a 2 blade aluminum fan. That 4 blade fan coming apart and almost killing someone story was enough to get me to make the move. I will make it all my next week project.. hope all goes well. wish me luck :-)
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02-07-2014, 12:38 AM | #23 | |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Quote:
I have the paint code in WV dusty |
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02-07-2014, 01:07 AM | #24 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Green?? I don't think I've ever seen green fenders on a stock Model A. :-/
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02-07-2014, 01:11 AM | #25 | |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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Do you have any books or catalogs? Here is another thread on water pumps, http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...8945&showall=1 I know it's small but it's the best i can do from here;
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02-07-2014, 01:49 AM | #26 | |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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Quote:
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02-07-2014, 01:53 AM | #27 | |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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Darryl in Fairbanks |
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02-07-2014, 06:02 AM | #28 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Flipp, place the new pump in position without a gasket, spin it and make sure it's not scraping inside the head. If it hits inside at all, just grind a very small amount off the propellers. Trial and error fit. When your satisfied install with gasket. Use gasket cement.
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02-07-2014, 10:02 AM | #29 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
you should grind the corners off the vanes anyway so you can get the pump out on the roadside without removing the radiator. Also, as mentioned, remove the 4 mounting studs and replace with bolts again so you can do a roadside WP change without rad. removal
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02-07-2014, 11:33 AM | #30 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
I agree. I grind off the tips of the vanes on the impellor because the water pump pumps way TOO much and will either spray coolant out around the radiator cap or exit via the over flow tube when accelerating. Ford improved the water pump in 32 with the B engine . I also like to use bolts instead of studs and nuts when installing the water pump. Bolts instead of studs and a two blade fan makes water pump removal without removing the radiator much easier. Care must be used when removing the old studs, they break easily and are a real pain to remove after breakage.
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02-07-2014, 12:26 PM | #31 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Be sure you put a piece of cardboard in front of the fan against your radiator when you work on taking off the pump. It will protect the fins on the radiator.
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02-07-2014, 12:28 PM | #32 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Now you can see another one with green fenders. At least Dusty's car looks good. The previous owner that painted my 29 Tudor must have gotten drunk one night, then went to the paint store and threw up, then said........."Ah Ha, that's the color I want, PUKE GREEN".
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02-07-2014, 01:03 PM | #33 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Flipp, if I lived in SoCal, I'd drain out the antifreeze altogether. Then I'd back off the packing nut until I could see the condition of the packing, make a determination of condition, and grease as Purdy suggests, or add packing as necessary. Then I would snug up the packing nut, and put plain water back in the car. As someone noted, antifreeze is more likely to leak than water, and do you really need antifreeze in your area? Leakless water pumps are fine if you really need one, but original pumps can be maintained so they don't leak. Two of my cars have originals; one has a leakless. None of them leak. I think it is better to try to make what you have work than spend money unnecessarily. When you get to know more about your car you can make more informed decisions about whether to just start replacing parts, or repairing/restoring your original stuff.
Fred suggested cardboard on the inside to protect the radiator. Put a large piece on the outside too, to protect both the shell and the radiator, because when you pull the radiator forward, it is likely to hit the light bar and dent the shell; if you have license plate clamps on the bar, they can mess up the fins. Loosen them and rotate them up so the bolt ends don't hit the radiator when it's pulled forward. Be careful too about your hood if you pull the radiator forward. Go slowly for a more harmonious outcome. Welcome, and good luck.
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02-07-2014, 02:00 PM | #34 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
yes as long as your radiator is working right you will be just fine .Please check for CRACKS IN THE FAN BLADE this can be a big problem down the road .You can buy the new fan from your supplier that is balanced for about $40.00 its easy to do especially if your going to replace the water pump.
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02-07-2014, 04:54 PM | #35 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
if you decide to run plain water as someone suggested (here we go again) at least put rust inhibitor in there, else your block and rad. will fill up with rust in no time. Think cast iron rusts much? haha
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02-07-2014, 05:35 PM | #36 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Dang it!! I just got a called from Steve at Bert's and he said that he doesn't have the 2 Blade Cast Aluminum Fan in stock and that they probably won't get them until March!! I called all other reputable vendors I could think of and they all said they were backordered as well. :-/
The collector I purchased the car from gave it to me with antifreeze in it already. The car came from Colorado so I'm not sure if weather played a role in the decision to add antifreeze. It looks to be 50/50 though. But now that she's in California what do you suggest.. pure water?? I'm sure this question has been asked a million times on here. Thanks again guys for your continues advice on my fix. |
02-07-2014, 07:10 PM | #37 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
If you take out the antifreeze be sure and put in a bottle of rust inhibitor.
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02-07-2014, 07:46 PM | #38 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
since the AF is already in there , if you remove it you will have a disposal issue.
Does it NEVER freeze where you are? AF vs water is one of the most hotly debated topics on here, just search it. You'll be sorry !!!
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02-07-2014, 09:39 PM | #39 | |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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02-07-2014, 09:46 PM | #40 | |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Quote:
Yeah, I've been pulled in 20 million different directions when it comes to the type of radiator coolant and mixture I should use. I think I'll run water only with a tad of coolant in it. |
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02-07-2014, 09:52 PM | #41 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Exactly right. Rust inhibitor. Good suggestion. A friend suggests a tablespoon of soluble oil. I haven't tried this yet. Maybe someone can verify this?
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02-07-2014, 10:15 PM | #42 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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02-07-2014, 10:15 PM | #43 | |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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02-07-2014, 10:49 PM | #44 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Antifreeze leaks in places that water won't leak. Antifreeze has a higher boiling point than water but that really doesn't help. A model A doesn't have to be running at 212 degrees to be running hot. The model A actually runs cooler with water. Some sing the praises of antifreeze fighting rust. Soluable oil or water pump lubricant will keep the system free of rust and help lubricate the pump at the same time . I use it for that reason. It will run cooler with straight water but you won't have rust protection. It takes more than a table spoon. I buy it in small bottles maybe 1/4 pint or thereabout. Different parts houses sell different brands. Gunk brand is lower cost here. Prices range from less than two dollars a bottle to just over five, depending on brand and who is running the parts store. If you have freezing temps you either need to use antifreeze or drain the system.
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02-07-2014, 11:15 PM | #45 | |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole. |
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02-07-2014, 11:42 PM | #46 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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02-08-2014, 05:42 AM | #47 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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02-08-2014, 05:52 AM | #48 | |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
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02-08-2014, 05:59 AM | #49 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Go Team USA!!!
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02-09-2014, 11:04 PM | #50 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
I bought some at NAPA. Try this link
http://www.permatex.com/about-us/where-to-buy |
02-10-2014, 12:29 PM | #51 |
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Re: Antifreeze Leak Help!
Flipp google ford model aparts suppliers a bunch will come up some one should have a new two blade here are few synders mikes affordable, macks antique auto parts ,smith and jones,gass light,brattons tams,and there are many more !!!!
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