2 speed fordomatic

[fordor41]

So after grenading our FM2 we found one out west. I cleaned the filter, installed new fluid (3 times), installed newly rebuilt torque converter and rebuilt front pump. It worked perfectly..for about 6 weeks. then started to not shift out of low without driving a block or so. has gotten progressively worse, now out to about 4-5 blocks. when it finally shifts it is smooth, no over reving. once it finally shifts it is good for rest of the day until it cools off. down. so I cleaned the govenor. was actually clean. adjusted the TV valve, in increments, every way possible according to my Ford manual. anyone got any ideas? like I said once it upshifts, I can stop and go all day and it will operate perfectly.

[Merc Cruzer]

One hint I can give you, based on the 53' Merc, Merc-O-Matic, small case, 2 speed transmission, is that if you make the TV rod longer (unscrew it) you will make the shifts harder and if you make the TV rod shorter, you will make the shifts softer.

[Gene F]

I am wondering if the fluid is a bit too thick?

[fordor41]

Am running type F. It shifts great once it warms up, very smooth and no overreving so it doesn't slip, just will not shift when cold. also it operated perfectly for about 6 weeks.

[Merc Cruzer]

If i had to guess, I would say, there is still some sludge/varnish in the valve body. You may or may or may not want to try a transmission additive to see if that cleans it out. Shy of a complete disassembly, you may just have to live with it.

[40 Deluxe]

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Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

One hint I can give you, based on the 53' Merc, Merc-O-Matic, small case, 2 speed transmission, is that if you make the TV rod longer (unscrew it) you will make the shifts harder and if you make the TV rod shorter, you will make the shifts softer.

Need to back up the bus a bit! The '53 Merc-O-Matic was a 3 speed trans, not a 2 speed! However, when in "D" it was designed to start out in 2nd gear. You had to shift into "L" to get 1st gear.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Need to back up the bus a bit! The '53 Merc-O-Matic was a 3 speed trans, not a 2 speed! However, when in "D" it was designed to start out in 2nd gear. You had to shift into "L" to get 1st gear.

Sorry for the confusion. Yes it is a 3 speed but normally performs like a two speed, if started out in Drive. I should have said "2 speed transmission"

[5851a]

It sounds like a hardened seal. The mechanics used to call it morning sickness. A later C4 I have years ago wouldn't back up till warm. My friend that worked in transmission shop rebuilt it for me. Said everything was perfect except 1 seal that was as hard as dry pasta. He resealed it all and was fine ever since. The seal was internal.

[rotorwrench]

I've had problems with sticking valves in the Borg Warner design transmissios on several occasions. I pull the valve body and remove the valves if the bores are smooth then I clean and buff polish the valves using a polishing wheel & compound. Put it all back together and go. If they ever get metal contamination from a clutch or bearing failure, they can get little scratches that will gum up the whole works.

The bores expand as the transmission warms up. How long it takes to warm up depends on the clearance of each valve or piston. There can also be sticking problems with clutch pistons and band actuator pistons. If it looks smooth and moves well in it's bore then it should be good to go. Most old Ford transmissions need a bit of warm up time in cold weather.

[fordor41]

I have the valve body out of our grenaded trans and that trans operated perfectly so I'll swap the valves out and try that. Our original trans operated perfectly even when cold.

[Gene F]

Kultz ( I think) on here swears F is too thick and grippy. He says Dexatron is the closest formula to Type-A, which is what they came with.

[rotorwrench]

Talk to 10 people about oil or atf and you'll get 10 different opinions. Dexron was always for smooth shifting even when whale oil was still in common use.

The Ford/Borg Warner designs used bronze on steel clutch plates for many years. They worked OK on whale oil blend but that came to an end after the moratorium on whale oil based lubricants. Ford developed the Type F to get a positive shift with their transmissions. This reduces slippage of plates to make them last longer.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

talk to 10 people about oil or atf and you'll get 10 different opinions. Dexron was always for smooth shifting even when whale oil was still in common use.

The ford/borg warner designs used bronze on steel clutch plates for many years. They worked ok on whale oil blend but that came to an end after the moratorium on whale oil based lubricants. Ford developed the type f to get a positive shift with their transmissions. This reduces slippage of plates to make them last longer.

(x2)

[fordor41]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Kultz ( I think) on here swears F is too thick and grippy. He says Dexatron is the closest formula to Type-A, which is what they came with.

I believe my ford factory manual says type F. will check on that again,

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Kultz ( I think) on here swears F is too thick and grippy. He says Dexatron is the closest formula to Type-A, which is what they came with.

At least it wasn't KLUTZ ...

Never said that. TYPE F was not introduced until the 1968 model run.

FOMOCO began formulating their own ATF in 1959 that was similar to DEXRON. It was GM DEXRON used before that.

WHALE OIL was discontinued as better additives were formulated.

Automatic transmissions ran smoothly and reliably using whale oil in lubricating fluids, as long as engine coolant temperatures ran below 173 degrees F. Fortunately for the whales, by the 1970s engines became subject to tighter emissions regulations and engineers had to design them to run hotter. Other demands such as front-wheel-drive and ever-increased emissions limits boosted the operating temperatures of engines to well over 200 degrees F, forcing research efforts into synthetic lubricants and rendering the use of whale oil (really an esther, not an oil) obsolete.

SOURCE - https://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/725.cfm

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by fordor41

I believe my ford factory manual says type F. will check on that again,

I use type F in my 53' Merc and have no issues. Check the dates on what you buy. Since it is not the most popular ATF, it tends to set on the self too long.

Prior post: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...+fluid&page=10

[fordor41]

Originally Posted by fordor41

I have the valve body out of our grenaded trans and that trans operated perfectly so I'll swap the valves out and try that. Our original trans operated perfectly even when cold.

Swapped valve bodies and no change so moving on.

[cokefirst]

I spoke to an oil engineer several years ago about this subject. He gave me a bunch of engineer speak data that just confused me. Bottom line, Dexron is the closest fluid to Type A, Suffix A. There is a TON of information from those that believe that the Type F is the recommended fluid and it seems to work. From the information that is out there, either will work fine in the transmission, it is just a matter of choice. Dexron if you want the closest to the factory fluid, but Type F if you think that works better for you.

[Merc Cruzer]

I am a total believer in Type F, and so that is what I use, But a this point, I would probably give Dextron a try, can't hurt and it just might work.

Good luck in what you decide.

[rotorwrench]

Whale oil was discontinued for several reasons. For one it didn't last all that long so it had to be replaced at closer mileage intervals. The moretorium on whaling was the other problem. The use was banned for wide scale usage as a lubricant. While it is a natural ester it doesn't have the same properties as ester based synthetic oils.

Ester based synthetics were developed to use in jet engines way back in the 50s. They needed a high speed bearing lubricant that could also take high temperatures without catching fire. It's still used today in turbine engines. The generation III turbine oils can take more heat than any of the 1st or 2nd generation stuff. The early stuff had a tendency to coke up in hot areas. This forms a very hard carbon due to the extreme temperatures.

Ford Type F is still a mineral based ATF but it was developed in the late 60s to be a positive shift fluid for Ford X and FMX series and aging transmissions. Racers likely still use it in automatic transmissions like the modified powerglides for drag racing. If a person looks around these days, it's not easy to find a mineral based ATF any more. I've looked for Dexron III and don't have much luck.