Batteries completely discharging

[rivcokid]

I'm wondering if this is a case of me getting 2 bad Optima batteries, or my car is killing them. It's a 31 deluxe roadster, stock, 6V positive ground.

In both cases, the car started and ran just fine, even after a rest of 2 weeks. In the latter case, I put a new battery in on April 4, ran it twice including a tour with about a dozen stops and no problem. Then, next time I go to use it (anywhere from 2 days to 1 week later) - the battery is DEAD. I checked the batteries with my volt meter and the first one was at .16 volts, the second one (this morning) was at .22 volts. When I take the batteries to have them checked, they both registered fail and were replaced.

I don't notice anything about the car that is different, except last Saturday when I went to park it, I vaguely remember that the ammeter may have showed DISCHARGE after I turned it off.

The lights haven't been on in months. I've used the horn a few times, obviously, but that's about all I can think of so far as using the car. I do have another new battery in the car, but obviously, I'm a but hesitant about it. So, any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[Bob C]

Cutout points sticking closed? I always look at the ammeter after
I shut the engine off.

[1crosscut]

Disconnect the negative cable from the battery and clip a bulb type test light to the battery cable and the other end to the battery. If the bulb lights you have a short somewhere in the system.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

With everything off you can disconnect a cable and look for a slight spark,especially at night. you don't need a tester that way. if you see a spark hook it back up and keep connecting wires going away from the battery

[P.S.]

Do you have a pop-out (original type) ignition switch? If so, it is possible that the switch is shorting the hot to ground when off. Feel the coil after the car is off for several minutes. If the coil gets hot with the ignition off and the engine not running, that's it.

[Benson]

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Below is information from Optima website.


NOTE: Optima does not make a 6 volt chargers but other companies have them available.


https://www.optimabatteries.com/expe...a-dead-battery

If you take the time to read ALL the information you will find good tips on charging batteries.




"My battery is dead! What do I do now?" We get that question a lot, whether someone is talking about our batteries or a battery they are looking to replace. The simple answer is- try to charge the battery. That may seem overly simplistic, but the truth is, many batteries that are thought to be "dead" are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged.

Jumper cables and jump packs are not battery chargers. They are more along the lines of the electrical equivalent of a 1-gallon emergency can of gas. They can get your vehicle started and get you where you need to go, but you should make a point of fully-recharging your battery with a battery charger as soon as you can, just as you wouldn't expect that one gallon of gasoline to keep your engine running indefinitely.

Alternators are not battery chargers. Most vehicle alternators are designed to maintain batteries that are near a full state of charge, not recharge deeply-discharged batteries that can't start a vehicle without a jump-start assist from a set of jumper cables. Even though they're not designed to recharge those batteries, sometimes alternators can recharge deeply-discharged batteries, but there's a lot of "ifs" involved in that scenario- if the car is driven (not idled) for a long enough period of time, if the engine RPMs while the car is being driven are high enough to generate enough current to recharge the battery, if the alternator is still strong enough to perform this task, if the owner doesn't mind causing tremendous strain on their alternator that can lead to premature failure.

Some might also believe they can keep their battery properly-maintained by periodically starting their car and letting it idle for a period of time. In looking at all the "ifs" we've previously-described in such a scenario, you should know that this practice may actually discharge a battery faster than simply letting a vehicle sit, if the engine isn't operated at a sufficient speed for a sufficient amount of time, to replace the energy that was consumed during storage and starting.

The safest thing to do if your battery has been deeply-discharged is to attempt to fully-charge it with a battery charger. However, if a battery has been deeply-discharged below a charger's minimum operating voltage, it won't charge the battery. That's why it's a good idea to measure a battery's voltage before you start charging. Measuring the voltage before and after charging will tell you if the charger was able to deliver any or enough current to the battery. Some chargers will turn on and briefly operate, but if the battery doesn't register a minimum voltage level within a specific time frame, the charger may shut off. That fools a lot of folks into believing their chargers are working, when they actually shut off shortly after they were turned on.

Our OPTIMA Chargers and Maintainers can charge any 12-volt lead-acid battery, including AGM batteries and batteries that have been discharged all the way down to 1.25 volts. Our chargers also have voltage gauges on them, which can measure the pre-charge voltage level and tell you exactly how much voltage is in the battery you need to charge. Take care of your battery and it will take care of you!

HOW TO RESUSCITATE A DEEPLY DISCHARGED AGM BATTERY
In time, AGM batteries, including OPTIMA® batteries, may fail. Failures are often caused when a starting battery is used in a cycling application, for which a deep-cycle battery is the better choice.

OK, so you have a seemingly bad AGM battery, you attach it to your charger and…CLICK. The charger won't even charge it or it begins charging, but shuts off after a short period of time and displays a fault code. "It must be a bad battery!" you exclaim, or is it? In many cases, OPTIMA batteries that are assumed to be bad may actually be perfectly fine, just deeply discharged.

The great thing about AGM batteries, including OPTIMA REDTOP® BLUETOP® and YELLOWTOP® batteries, is that they have very low internal resistance. This allows very high amperage output so that the battery can power your accessories longer and deeper than a traditional battery, but at the same time deeply discharging it.

An AGM battery with its low internal resistance may stump car guys because sometimes it doesn't work like a traditional flooded lead-acid battery.

Here's the problem: Most battery chargers have built-in safety features that may prevent chargers from recharging deeply discharged batteries. A traditional battery that's at 10.5 volts or less is seen as defective, having either a short, a bad cell or some other defect. Most analog chargers are binary and are either on or off. If they don’t come on, it may be because the charger thinks the battery is “bad.” Turning on to charge a “bad” battery could create an unsafe scenario. But the fact is that the AGM battery may be just fine; it has simply slipped below the minimum voltage threshold of the charger to turn on, and the charger doesn't know what to do with the battery, so it does nothing or charges briefly and then shuts off.




Here are three options for bringing that deeply discharged AGM battery back to peak operational performance.

RECOVERY OPTION #1: THE BEST SOLUTION – AGM-SPECIFIC CHARGERS

The best method for recharging a deeply discharged AGM battery is to purchase a modern charger that has kept up with battery technology. Many chargers now have AGM-specific settings and desulfation steps that help recondition and recover deeply discharged AGM batteries. These are becoming more common, and they work well for all lead-acid batteries. They have the additional capability of doubling as a battery "maintainer" for batteries in storage. Some come with additional ring terminals to permanently attach to your battery leads so you can charge the battery externally with an accessible charger or maintainer. This makes it easy to hook up when you store your car, truck, boat or RV.

The OPTIMA Chargers Digital 1200 12V Performance Battery Charger and Maintainer enhances the performance of OPTIMA and other AGM batteries, recovers deeply discharged batteries and extends battery life. The OPTIMA Chargers Digital 1200 12V Performance Battery Charger and Maintainer is optimized when used with high-performance AGM batteries, but has enhanced charging capabilities that can also be used with all traditional types of automotive batteries.

This is the preferred method of charging a deeply discharged battery.



RECOVERY OPTION #2: THE DIY SOLUTION FOR CHARGING A DEEPLY DISCHARGED BATTERY

This is a recovery method for the do-it-yourselfer using the equipment you've got in the garage. With this option, you're going to trick your traditional charger into charging the deeply discharged AGM battery.

Here's what you need:



Battery charger (under 15 amps)
Jumper cables
A good battery, preferably above 12.2 volts. (It can be an AGM or flooded battery - it doesn't matter.)
The seemingly dead, deeply discharged AGM battery
A voltage meter
A watch or timer
Now, here's what you do:

Hook up the good battery and deeply discharged AGM battery in parallel – positive to positive and negative to negative. Do not have the charger connected to the battery or turned on at this stage.

Now, hook up the deeply discharged battery to the charger. Turn on the charger. The charger will "see" the voltage of the good battery (hooked up in parallel), and start providing a charge.

After the batteries have been hooked up for about an hour, check to see if the deeply discharged battery is slightly warm or hot to the touch. Batteries naturally become warm during charging, but excessive heat may be an indication that there really is something wrong with the battery. Discontinue charging immediately if the battery is hot to the touch. Also discontinue the process if you hear the battery "gassing" — a hissing sound coming from the safety valves. If it's hot or gassing, STOP CHARGING IMMEDIATELY!

With your voltage meter, check back often to see if the AGM battery has charged to 10.5 volts or above. This generally takes less than two hours with a 10-amp charger. If it has, disconnect the charger from the wall outlet and remove the good battery from the deeply discharged battery. Now, only the deeply discharged AGM battery should be connected to the charger. Turn on the charger and continue until the AGM battery reaches a full charge, or until the automatic charger completes the charge process. In most cases, the AGM battery will be recovered.



RECOVERY OPTION #3: ENLIST THE PROFESSIONALS

If you don't own a battery charger, you don't want to make the investment or you're not the do-it-yourself kind of person, this is the option for you.

Take the battery to a professional battery specialist who knows AGM technology. Most specialists are willing to provide "charge and check" procedures free or for a small fee. Auto parts stores are typically not capable of accurately determining an AGM battery's condition and many use conductance testers that don't provide correct readings. Battery specialists (such as Interstate Batteries and other independent battery distributors) are experts who can help determine if your battery is recoverable or not.

[Benson]

I agree that a bad cutout on top of generator is most likely the cause of dead battery.

Also if cutout or wires to the cutout are not installed correctly same thing will happen.

[rivcokid]

Thanks everyone. I went to the car this morning and it was fine - started right up. I did the cutout test outlined in the blue book and it read "OL" for both tests, which according to the book is what it should do. I felt the coil and it was cold. I started the car a few times, let it run, and then turned it off. The Ammeter showed about 10 amp discharge for a few seconds, then snapped back to "0" where it currently sits. I did not try the short test outlined above due to time constraints. However, I did pull the fuse so it won't drain regardless.

[Herb Concord Ca]

Pulling the starter mounted fuse when your finished driving your A for the day is a good idea. I've been doing that for 30 years.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

Disconnect the negative cable from the battery and clip a bulb type test light to the battery cable and the other end to the battery. If the bulb lights you have a short somewhere in the system.

Or a draw some place. Start with unclipping the bailing clamp at the end of the steering column, and pull that switch apart. That housing has little tabs on it like a taillight does. See if the light goes out at that point. Next one is to pull the dash panel back.

[rivcokid]

Well, 1crosscut is correct. Disconnected the battery cable, stuck my test light on it and the terminal, and it lit up brighter than anything. So, off to learn how to find a short! Thanks again everyone

[Rob Doe]

Rivco:

I read; you've tested the generator cutout as per Les Andrews blue book. My compliments, the blue book is my favorite source for electrical problem diagnosis.

If the safety fuse (by the starter stud) is installed, and the test light between the removed battery cable end and the battery post is lighting up steadily, it is a draw, not a 'short' that you are looking for. This draw may or may not show up on the ammeter depending on where the problem is and / or how your car is wired. (with or without the Nov. 1929 Service bulletin page 390 is or isn't applied)

X2 on post 5 and 10. Your dash light, a brake light or any other accessory not original to the car may be on.

[nkaminar]

Installing a battery cutoff switch is a good idea for two reasons: It will eliminate any drain on the battery when the car sits. It is also a safety item in case there is an electrical fire.

Your battery drain can be from any of the reasons mentioned above by others. It can be intermittent which will drive you nuts trying to find it.

Batteries don't like to be fully discharged. It can lead to lead sulfate crystals forming and warped plates. Both will cause decreased battery capacity.

[Planojc]

When you shut it off and the amp meter shows a discharge, check to see if the brake lights are on.

[MilwaukeeMike]

It is a band-aid, but a cutout switch should be added.
I had an ammeter go bad at a show. Smoking like crazy until I threw the switch. A lot of guys were talking about getting one after that .

[Rob Doe]

I remove the positive cable off at the end of the day. A ground side cutoff switch is planned. There are some nice examples on this forum.

Run the voltage tests on your wires and cables that are described in Les Andrews blue book chapter II when the car is performing as it should. Run them annually when you get the car out in the spring. Clean the grounds and the starter switch too.

If you install a cutoff switch, put it in the ground side, and remember, if the car is running, you need to turn off the ignition switch too.

[jeepguy1948]

I think you got 2 bad batteries, it would not be the first time. They would test “dead but ok” at the battery store if your car ran them down.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Cutout points sticking closed? I always look at the ammeter after
I shut the engine off.

Bob I do that too, it's a GOOD habit to get into!! That little ammeter will tell you a LOT.