NJ DMV versus AACA Judges

[JerseyJim]

Went to NJ Dept of Motor Vehicles today to register my 40 Ford Sedan Delivery. Spent two hours there and walked away with nothing. The woman there along with two other coworkers spent all that time checking their picture library looking for a comparable vehicle. They had none. The woman then started comparing it to a Deluxe coupe. She pointed to my mirrors, fog lights, and bumper guard and said that the car is "not historically accurate and doesn't qualify for Historic plates". I politely explained that all of these items were genuine Ford accessories correct for the year and she simply handed me all of my paper work back and said that they wouldn't register it. My comment to her at that point was that she was not hired to be a car judge.

I have posted pictures of the car here previously. This is a frame-off, accurate restoration. Everything except the distributor and fan are original and correct for the car. NJ used to handle this stuff in Trenton and there was never a hassle. Now Trenton is sending car owners to Flemington and these people have no idea what they are doing. Nothing but horror stories. No one ever seems to get through the ordeal in a single visit.

I'm going back tomorrow with a copy of The Classy Ford V8 showing a picture of the car and a picture and list of all 1940 Genuine Ford accessories. I plan on asking for a supervisor. Wish me luck...

[alanwoodieman]

not that this helps any but when I went to register my 41 3/4 ton truck (already had title in my name) it took over an hour trying to compare it to something already on their books, which they could not come up with, finally decided it was close to a 72 Chev flatbed that was on the books. I talked with my lawyer, a car guy, and believe it or not he said it had to do with the homeland security bill passed by our idiots in Washington. Stupidity marches on.

[paul2748]

The problem in NJ is that a lot of people with heavily modified old cars have gotten or have tried to get the special registration (QQ plates) when only factory equipped cars are eligible for them. This has led to a crackdown on the use of the QQ's by the DMV.

When dealing with the any DMV, the thing to do is always be polite, even when they can be a bunch of idiots and infuriate you, which often happens. Going to a supervisor is a good idea. And you may want to make a copy of the pages in the V8 book for them to add to their library so the next guy has an easier time.

Good Luck

[Old Henry]

If you can take an original "green bible" parts book in with you that might help too.

[richard crow]

i was told that in n.j once you get historical plates you don,t pay a yearly fee & you don,t need yearley inspt .if true its worth the hassle in n.y land of tax we pay every year for reg & inspt.down state 53.00 for plate was 23.00 last year. some states are even higher. paul 2748 is right because a lot of people try to reg. modofied cars they look close .

[oldskool]

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I would try another dmv office,i had issues with a local dmv trying to reg my 41 noting but greif,went to another office and had no problem.

[345 DeSoto]

[QUOTE=In n.y land of tax we pay every year for reg & inspt.down state 53.00 for plate was 23.00 last year. some states are even higher.QUOTE]

This is why I registered my 32 in Florida...no yearly ($$$) inspection, no crap stickers all over the windshield, no hassle...and the DMV lady SUGGESTED that I register it as "Historic", because it's cheaper for the plates. As for seeing a Supervisor, that's the route to go. The car is, in fact, a 40. What accessories it may have on it has nothing to do with the fact that it IS a 40...

[jimTN]

TN has a antique plate, good forever. Problem is the butchers have gotten these plates for their "creations" and tend to drive them for regular use. State has cracked down on the use part and hopefully will crack down when these totally non original cars are registered.

[Mike51Merc]

Remove Accessories.
Visit DMV.
Replace Accessories.

I've heard stories about people photoshopping pictures of their cars and submitting them to DMV. A friend of mine was denied because of Lake Pipes, another for chrome wheels.

Meanwhile, I've seen customs with serious body modifications running around with Antique plates. Go Figure.

[JerseyJim]

Update... Back at Flemington DMV. Yesterday the excuse was that my pictures showed accessories that their picture of the front of a regular Deluxe did not show. Brought them a book showing the Delivery as well as the Genuine Ford accessory list and clear pictures. They won't even look at my documentation! I am now waiting while they contact Trenton. This is insane.

[Fordors]

Jim, while I sympathize with you wholeheartedly, if you think about it the situation is really no different than anything else in this country. The nurse that won't answer the call button in a timely manner, the store clerk with a surly attitude, or the govt. bureaucrat that can't be bothered; it's rampant. What we all need is for everyone to act civilly toward one another, but good luck with that. Enough of my rant, I better back off on the caffeine this morning.

[Mike51Merc]

Perhaps the AACA can help? I'd give them a call just to find out.

[OldIron]

Your problem reminds me of when I lived in Massachusetts (born there). Everytime I went to the Dept of Registry it was a hassle. It seemed like they went out of their way to create a problem. I've lived in Washington State for the last 20 years and it's a pleasant change. We have a correct year plate program and it's for stock or modified as long as they are not daily drivers. Once registered there are no annual fees. The people are always friendly and easy to deal with. In today's financial crisis being experienced by most states, someone ought to tell them it's wise to be nice to your customers, who are also voters. Good luck!

[richard crow]

we have become slaves to our sivel servents.they don,t have to be nice .1-they can,t be fired 2-they have no compertion.

[Mike51Merc]

Originally Posted by richard crow

we have become slaves to our sivel servents.they don,t have to be nice .1-they can,t be fired 2-they have no compertion.

A bigger problem we have is that much of our country can't properly read and write. Just sayin'


sivel = civil
servents= servants
don,t = don't
can,t = can't
compertion= competition

[Charlie Stephens]

Can you take a copy of the Restoration Guidelines from the Early Ford V8 Club (earlyfordv8.org) with you?

Charlie Stephens

[billwill]

Originally Posted by richard crow

i was told that in n.j once you get historical plates you don,t pay a yearly fee & you don,t need yearley inspt .if true its worth the hassle in n.y land of tax we pay every year for reg & inspt.down state 53.00 for plate was 23.00 last year. Some states are even higher. Paul 2748 is right because a lot of people try to reg. Modofied cars they look close .

what you are saying is true great place to live.

[32B]

Wow, this is the first I have heard of the NJ problems. My NJ registered 68 Cutlass has been registered as historic for over 10 years. It runs 11 teens and looks stock on the outside other than the cage, but thats not all that visible from the pics. I didn't have a problem when I registered it, but it would have been before 9/11. I am not looking forward to trying to register the 32. I think NJ does have the 'collector' class of reg for modified vehicles, but not sure what is needed ins wise or reg wise for that option. But on the whole, most DMVs in polulated areas are miserable form my expierience. I always have better luck going to one in a quiet area where the folks behind the counter might have time to help you. Good luck.

[JerseyJim]

Further update... I told the supervisor in Flemington that I had to talk to her supervisor. She said that person was in Trenton and they didn't open until 8:30 (half hour later). I said I would wait for as long as it took and took a seat. An hour later, I was called up and they took care of the paperwork and registered the car.

For the record... I was extremely polite. My wife is a government employee. So I am sensitive to the fact that these people frequently have to take a lot of abuse from the public. The problem here was a supervisor with a VERY bad attitude.

I understand what they are trying to do. The categories are being abused. People are registering street rods, rat rods, even pro streets as historical cars. But having some clerk at the counter trying to make these types of decisions is not going to work.

NJ has really tightened the rules. Here they are...

HISTORICComplete Application for Historic Vehicle Registration [pdf, Form SP-21]

• Enclose two color photographs of your vehicle: front view and side view (right or left) NOTE: Flemington requires the windows to be up and visible in the photographs. Retractable headlights must be open.
• Enclose a copy of your New Jersey vehicle title
• Enclose $44 check or money order payable to NJMVC
• Mail to the address listed on the form: NJ Motor Vehicle Commission, Special Plate Unit, 225 East State Street, P.O. Box 015, Trenton, NJ 08666-0015

You are probably better off mailing the application in then taking it to the local DMV. Probably less of a hassle. NOTE that the application states that the vehicle cannot be modified in any way. That's a tough one to live up to for even the best restorations.


STREET ROD - Here are the big changes. Note that you have to have an NSRA inspection!

• Fully completed application signed by a Street Rod Official
• Photocopy of the current vehicle registration certificate
• Photocopy of your membership card
• National Street Rod Association Vehicle Safety Inspection Form No. 100
• $15 check or money order payable to NJ MVC

COLLECTOR VEHICLE

• A limited production vehicle or a vehicle made in limited quantities
• Less than 25 years old
• Not registered as a "historic vehicle" or a "street rod"
• Not driven more than 3,000 miles per year
• Insured as a limited use "collector vehicle"

To be classified as a collector vehicle, your vehicle cannot be registered as a "historic vehicle" or a "street rod." Download our fact sheet [23k pdf] for more information.

Vehicles applying for collector vehicle status must be approved by MVC. Follow these steps to apply:

• Complete the collector vehicle application [41k pdf]
• Submit a letter from the vehicle manufacturer, recognized car club or a collector organization attesting to the vehicle’s limited production status. Must be printed on official letterhead
• Show proof of limited-use insurance
• Include photographs of front, driver side, passenger side and rear of the vehicle

[paul2748]

Originally Posted by richard crow

i was told that in n.j once you get historical plates you don,t pay a yearly fee & you don,t need yearley inspt .if true its worth the hassle in n.y land of tax we pay every year for reg & inspt.down state 53.00 for plate was 23.00 last year. some states are even higher. paul 2748 is right because a lot of people try to reg. modofied cars they look close .

That's right. Once registered no annual registration fees, at least for now.
You still get yearly registrations, but no fees, no inspections. Technically, there is a mileage limitation, but I don't think the cops really care to check.

[billwill]

Originally Posted by oldskool

I would try another dmv office,i had issues with a local dmv trying to reg my 41 noting but greif,went to another office and had no problem.

in new jersey the best place to go is TRENTON with all three pictures Front side and back call1 888 4863339 or 609 292 6500

[JerseyJim]

Originally Posted by billwill

in new jersey the best place to go is TRENTON with all three pictures Front side and back call1 888 4863339 or 609 292 6500

Trenton no longer handles this. Call if you need to. I found out the hard way by driving down and being sent back to Flemington. Sucks... Because in Trenton you could check out your choices for personalized plates. You can't do that at the local DMV offices.

[richard crow]

mike 51 merc. mike when you reach my age 1-you will be lucky if you remember your name let alone spell .2-you will even be more lucker if you live that long. thank god there are perfict people like you to correct us. this is my last post . i am to stuped to be on this site.

[5window]

Originally Posted by JerseyJim

Went to NJ Dept of Motor Vehicles today to register my 40 Ford Sedan Delivery. Spent two hours there and walked away with nothing. The woman there along with two other coworkers spent all that time checking their picture library looking for a comparable vehicle. They had none. The woman then started comparing it to a Deluxe coupe. She pointed to my mirrors, fog lights, and bumper guard and said that the car is "not historically accurate and doesn't qualify for Historic plates". I politely explained that all of these items were genuine Ford accessories correct for the year and she simply handed me all of my paper work back and said that they wouldn't register it. My comment to her at that point was that she was not hired to be a car judge.

I have posted pictures of the car here previously. This is a frame-off, accurate restoration. Everything except the distributor and fan are original and correct for the car. NJ used to handle this stuff in Trenton and there was never a hassle. Now Trenton is sending car owners to Flemington and these people have no idea what they are doing. Nothing but horror stories. No one ever seems to get through the ordeal in a single visit.

I'm going back tomorrow with a copy of The Classy Ford V8 showing a picture of the car and a picture and list of all 1940 Genuine Ford accessories. I plan on asking for a supervisor. Wish me luck...

Well, even PA is not quite that silly. Since the DMV objected to "She pointed to my mirrors, fog lights, and bumper guard" did you consider just unbolting them and taking the car back? Then, it matches the picture, you get your plates and you bolt the accessories back on.

Back in NJ in 1967, I had a small motorcycle and a "motorcycle learner's permit". To get my license, I had to drive 30 miles on major highways to the correct testing site to drive around the course and put my bike up on the kickstand. Then, I drove home with my license. Silliness in government is not a new thing.

[c-gor]

In Ohio to receive a "Historic Plate" (>25 years old) one only needs to submit the title.

Torun "same year license plates", one needs to copy the plate and send it in to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles (BVM) and receive an authorization.

Last time I checked the historic plate cost a one time fee of $15.00

[Bruce/CT]

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Hey Richard,
Sorry you feel that way. I did notice the spelling muistakes but so what the He_ _.
I, for one, think this the comment about your spellin was out of line. Don't leave.
Bruce/CT

[V12Bill]

A couple of years ago I wanted Historic NJ tags for my 48 Lincoln Zephyr convertible which wasn't finished yet. I took pictures of my 48 Continental and sent them in as the required photos and received the tags in the mail. I guess the rules are only enforced if you are present to take the guff.

On renewal of NJ Historic tags, the tags are good for three years and then a renewal form is sent to you to fill out. Send the form back to Trenton and you are good to go for three more years without any additional cost.

[Django]

What a headache!

Your delivery is absolutely gorgeous though!

[JerseyJim]

Originally Posted by 5window

Well, even PA is not quite that silly. Since the DMV objected to "She pointed to my mirrors, fog lights, and bumper guard" did you consider just unbolting them and taking the car back? Then, it matches the picture, you get your plates and you bolt the accessories back on.

Back in NJ in 1967, I had a small motorcycle and a "motorcycle learner's permit". To get my license, I had to drive 30 miles on major highways to the correct testing site to drive around the course and put my bike up on the kickstand. Then, I drove home with my license. Silliness in government is not a new thing.

The accessories were the excuse on day one. The bigger problem was that their library did not include a specific image of a Sedan Delivery. I'm sure that there are a lot of cars out there that they do not have pictures of. So this is going to be a frequent problem.

Best advice is to go ahead and transfer the title at the local DMV and then mail in the application for QQ's.

[Drew]

I was just down to the Flemington DMV to get QQ plates for my 32 pickup. They said the same thing to me that the truck had been modified. I asked the girl to show me the modifications, and she couldn't tell me. I waited a few minutes and then she said that she found something similar, whatever it was I'll never know. I tend to agree that their database might be lacking. I'm just happy to be registered.

[40a-760]

Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

A bigger problem we have is that much of our country can't properly read and write. Just sayin'


sivel = civil
servents= servants
don,t = don't
can,t = can't
compertion= competition

Mike,

Can you spell rude and unnecessary. Just sayin'

Walt K in PA

[40a-760]

Originally Posted by richard crow

mike 51 merc. mike when you reach my age 1-you will be lucky if you remember your name let alone spell .2-you will even be more lucker if you live that long. thank god there are perfict people like you to correct us. this is my last post . i am to stuped to be on this site.

Richard,

To leave the site only validates his rudeness. You have every right to be here and I look forward to your next post.

Walt K in PA

[Bruce/Texas]

Jersey Jim,

The color on your car look sharp. What color is that? (Sorry for the thread Jack)

[Mike51Merc]

Richard & the rest of you guys:

I'm sorry if I hurt Richard's feelings and if I offended others. I get my undies in a bunch when people wholesale slam civil servants, especially when the slammer is imperfect themselves.

[Da Tinman]

if they were civil "servants" they would be doing more to help than hinder.

civil overlord is more a correct term, if you dont see this then you are firmly parked on the other side of the counter.

[joel]

These people are not elected, they are hired and can be held accountable through thier supervisors. if you don't pursue thier correction, then someone else has to. JMO

[whosserpico]

Hi I'm looking to find a title for a 1934 3window coupe , its a kit car from Florida I purchased back in Oct. of 2010 Its just being finished being built . any help will B appreciated thanku Don

[Da Tinman]

Originally Posted by whosserpico

Hi I'm looking to find a title for a 1934 3window coupe , its a kit car from Florida I purchased back in Oct. of 2010 Its just being finished being built . any help will B appreciated thanku Don

LOL, please help me commit title fraud, a felony,, live on the interweb.

[TonyM]

Originally Posted by richard crow

we have become slaves to our sivel servents.they don,t have to be nice .1-they can,t be fired 2-they have no compertion.

I'm a civil servant smart guy. I work my tail off for ungrateful residents like you. Try making it through life with no water, your garbage piling up and no sewer for your toilet.

TM.

[Da Tinman]

Originally Posted by TonyM

I'm a civil servant smart guy. I work my tail off for ungrateful residents like you. Try making it through life with no water, your garbage piling up and no sewer for your toilet.

TM.

Right, and you tend to lord it over us every time we deal with you. no water garbage piling up and no sewer, hmmm how are these services any more or less needed than say the mechanic that holds your life in his hands with every brake job? Or the waitress that works her ass off to make sure you leave happy?

I'm not ungrateful for the job you do, but it would be nice to walk in someplace full of civil servants and not get the run around and flat out arrogance that seems to come with the territory.

[expavr]

Originally Posted by OldIron

Your problem reminds me of when I lived in Massachusetts (born there). Everytime I went to the Dept of Registry it was a hassle. It seemed like they went out of their way to create a problem. I've lived in Washington State for the last 20 years and it's a pleasant change. We have a correct year plate program and it's for stock or modified as long as they are not daily drivers. Once registered there are no annual fees. The people are always friendly and easy to deal with. In today's financial crisis being experienced by most states, someone ought to tell them it's wise to be nice to your customers, who are also voters. Good luck!

The difference between WA and other states I've registered a vehicle in is that the local registration office is a privately owned business that is licensed by the state. We moved to WA last September from CA and our vehicle registration process was a snap. Very pleasant staff - no hassles - and the "pink" from WA showed up in 3 weeks.

[5window]

Once again, a decent thread wanders off-topic. This thread was about registering a vehicle when the problem was that the state regulations didn't match the obvious reality.

To descend into a lambasting of civil servants is unfair-there are many fine civil servants who tolerate and try to help the public-just as there are those who couldn't care less-it's just a paycheck-just like every other job or career. We should get over this.

We have discussed spelling and typos here before. We will all make spelling and typing mistakes. I don't know about your computer, but mine marks the words and grammatical errors that seem to be incorrect. Don't you read what you are typing before you post it? Personally, regardless of the point being made, I automatically downgrade it in importance when the author clearly hasn't cared enough about his audience to take the time to make sure it is something they can read.

And now back to our regularly scheduled Early V8 topic. Please.

[Cob]

When you guys start attacking each other and being disrespectful then a post will be closed.

If some of you can't reframe going after a poster than it is my suggestion you don't post anything at all.

Those who seem to go after people when they disagree with them stand a very strong chance of their posting privledges being remove.

Look in the mirror - if this is you, don't post on the site.

Cob
Moderator