Crankshaft in New Rebuilt Model A Engine Won't Turn

[some mech 3]

I can't time the newly rebuilt model A engine because I can't turn the crankshaft using a hand crank. I called the mechanic who rebuilt the engine and he said, Oh, you'll never be able to turn crank by hand. You have to use the starter. I told him the new battery will not turn the starter. His answer was to hook a 12 Volt battery in line with the 6 Volt. This will turn the engine over but you cannot control the speed of crankshaft in order to have the pin mate with the timing recess. Two people are needed to try to get the timing pin into the timing gear recess: one person pulsates the starter button while the second attempts to feel the recess and insert the pin.
It is strictly hit or miss and nearly impossible to time the engine. I have timed many Model A engines, but never one that couldn't be cranked by hand. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance.
Some mech 3

[denniskliesen]

The mechanic you talked to is full of BS. If you can't turn it with a hand crank in my opinion, there is something wrong.

[tinkirk]

Originally Posted by denniskliesen

The mechanic you talked to is full of BS. If you can't turn it with a hand crank in my opinion, there is something wrong.

i would be on his door step
this guy is full of BS

[Bob C]

Any chance the starter is jammed or one of the starter bolts is to long?
Hooking a 12V battery to a 6V is a good way to blow up the 6V battery,
I've seen it happen.


Bob

[Tacoma Bob]

BS to the max. Might try pulling the starter if in fact bolts are an issue. Maybe pull the plugs just to see if you can use the hand crank. I'm no expert but bearing caps might need a shim or two.

[harryc]

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Can you get it to turn by rocking it back and forth in gear? I have timed some very tight engines while pushing (struggling) down the hill of my driveway . I then had to tow them to get them started.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

There is no reason to have bearings that tight. I’ve heard of some babbitters that do it that way, I suppose to try and burnish the bearings in for more contact, but if machined correctly, unnecessary. IMO

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

There is no reason to have bearings that tight. I’ve heard of some babbitters that do it that way, I suppose to try and burnish the bearings in for more contact, but if machined correctly, unnecessary. IMO

My rebuilt engine was tight also and required to be towed about a mile with the plugs out to free it enough to time it with the plugs still out. After timing I used gravity and the starter to get it to start. Dropped the pan after about 700 miles and it all checked out ok. If the builder hadn't warned me that it was intentionally tight I would have taken it back, but figured if that was his work he would get to do it again if something got damaged,

[Charlie Stephens]

Walk very carefully on this. If there is a warrantee on the work he will probably try to get out of it by claiming something you did caused the problem. I would start by removing the starter and the plugs and see if you can crank it over with the crank (I assume it is installed in the car?).

Charlie Stephens

[Doug_Knutson]

You are sure it’s not because of a long bellhousing or starter motor bolt. I would crawl under and remove the starter and then attempt to turn using a screwdriver on the flywheel teeth. If you can’t turn it there I would go deeper or get the rebuilder to come and help. It might be as simple as a overnight front or rear oil seal assembly ??


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[daren007]

You should start shopping for another engine rebuilder.

[Bob Bidonde]

Rule of thumb is that it should not require more than 75 lbs-ft of torque to turn the crankshaft on a new rebuild.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by some mech 3

I can't time the newly rebuilt model A engine because I can't turn the crankshaft using a hand crank. I called the mechanic who rebuilt the engine and he said, Oh, you'll never be able to turn crank by hand. You have to use the starter. I told him the new battery will not turn the starter. His answer was to hook a 12 Volt battery in line with the 6 Volt. This will turn the engine over but you cannot control the speed of crankshaft in order to have the pin mate with the timing recess. Two people are needed to try to get the timing pin into the timing gear recess: one person pulsates the starter button while the second attempts to feel the recess and insert the pin.
It is strictly hit or miss and nearly impossible to time the engine. I have timed many Model A engines, but never one that couldn't be cranked by hand. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance.
Some mech 3

Don't try to run it, or pull it. Tear it down, there is something, or many things bad wrong with that engine. If you pull it, or try to run it, you will probably end up with nothing!


With listening to your builders answer, you should all ready know, he doesn't know much, or cares! By taking it back there isn't any reason to think, that next time will be any different!


When you take it a part, have some good engine guys with, as Witness
and take many, many pictures. Also write down all parts clearances.


The builder knew it wouldn't turn over when he sent it out!


Being that tight, if you pull it, that will even smear the bearings. The pistons are probably to tight also.


Herm.

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by some mech 3

I can't time the newly rebuilt model A engine because I can't turn the crankshaft using a hand crank. I called the mechanic who rebuilt the engine and he said, Oh, you'll never be able to turn crank by hand. You have to use the starter. I told him the new battery will not turn the starter. His answer was to hook a 12 Volt battery in line with the 6 Volt. This will turn the engine over but you cannot control the speed of crankshaft in order to have the pin mate with the timing recess. Two people are needed to try to get the timing pin into the timing gear recess: one person pulsates the starter button while the second attempts to feel the recess and insert the pin.
It is strictly hit or miss and nearly impossible to time the engine. I have timed many Model A engines, but never one that couldn't be cranked by hand. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance.
Some mech 3

First off, whoever this guy is, he is not a mechanic, he may be able to put an engine together but there is more to it than that.
Do not put 12 volts on it and in fact don't try and turn it with anything but a hand crank.

The pan needs to come off this engine and bearing caps loosened, and pistons oiled thru the spark plug holes, and ya gotta find out what is making the engine so tight. No engine overhaul done right should wind up with the engine locked up. It will be well worth the effort to take your time, and have someone with experience, "Not the mechanic", telling you to force turn the engine, and get to the heart of why this engine cannot be turned by the crank. Gonna be a Sherlock Holmes investigation kind of thing. Will be interested in what is found.

[Jacksonlll]

First put the car in third gear and push really hard backwards. Not forward. It just may turn.
Pulling the starter and doing the screw driver thing would work too.

[Corley]

Let's say you were to do as the assembler told you to do. Also, let's assume the "too tight" component is bearings. OK, you get it to turn, start and run. All the oil is squeezed out of said bearings, leaving them dry. They will then heat up, without lube, and in a worst case, melt the babbit or even the crank.

Now let's assume the "tight fit" is the Pistons or ring end gaps. What happens when you force it is the block gets gouged, the Pistons are also scraped and ring glands broken.

Why would you ever put a new engine at risk like that? Find the problem and fix it, then you might have a good long lasting engine. (I say might, because any idiot that would have you force an engine to turn, probably didn't do a very good job on any of it). A newly assembled engine should crank harder than a worn engine, but it should crank by hand. Period.

[Railcarmover]

No engine should ever be that tight.It shouldn't take 75 foot pounds of torque to turn it or have to be dragged around the block as few times to 'burnish' the bearings.Mr Kohnke is correct,do not do a thing but tear it back down and check all bearing clearances,if you cant do it yourself find someone..other than that guy.. to do it.You can fight for your money,or try to have him make it right,but I don't think he has the skills to make it right.Ford trained mechanics to set bearings by 'feel',its how you check the work once you feel the shims are correct.Crankshaft feel means it turns smoothly without 'breakout force',you can spin a crankshaft set correctly by hand prior to installing the rods,then rotation 'drag' increases with pistons installed,but not to where the engine requires heavy torque to turn it..the rod bearings are set and checked with a mallet,you should be able to tap the rod side to side on the crankshaft journal after measuring and shimming,its a way to insure the bearing isnt too tight.Clean pistons and measured piston ring gaps finishes the job.Its not rocket science,there are no wizards in babbit bearings,you have to follow the rules,and every step of the way make sure the engine isn't tight..there is no shortcuts,she has to come back down,all the way..

[Step-down]

Pull the plugs and try, oil the cylinders ..

[Synchro909]

Based on your engine builder's responses so far, you will only get one shot at this. I think Mr Kohnke's advice is worth heeding, especially the part about having a mechanic who knows his stuff with you. He seems to be so full of BS that you will need some backup.
Good luck with it.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Before we get too far out in 'left field with this', are we certain we did not get the wrong flywheel bolt(s) or too long of a starter bolt installed?