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Old 10-09-2021, 12:24 PM   #1
1931 flamingo
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Default NEW starting problem

Finally got the 40 to start after replacing starter so w/a correct one. Generator started to motor (orig problem I think). Replaced volt regulator as someone suggested. Now when I connect battery generator still wants to "motor'. Bad generator??
It's a 48 block with an offset gen mount modified to use the orig hold down nut.
If it is the gen, which one do I order??
Any fix for this gen??
I don't want to go to an alternator because of the period correctness of the car.


Thanks in advance .
Paul in CT
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Old 10-09-2021, 12:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Maybe ,The regulator or Generator is wired wrong or the regulator is still faulty .(the cut out part is stuck down) ,
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Old 10-09-2021, 01:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo View Post
Finally got the 40 to start after replacing starter so w/a correct one. Generator started to motor (orig problem I think). Replaced volt regulator as someone suggested. Now when I connect battery generator still wants to "motor'. Bad generator??
It's a 48 block with an offset gen mount modified to use the orig hold down nut.
If it is the gen, which one do I order??
Any fix for this gen??
I don't want to go to an alternator because of the period correctness of the car.

Paul in CT
This almost has to be stuck points in the voltage regulator causing the generator to motor. Take the regulator cover off and look to see if any of the points are closed. DD

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Old 10-10-2021, 09:28 AM   #4
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

I will check. Can't believe that 2 regulators would do the same thing. Wiring is correct.
Paul in CT
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Old 10-10-2021, 01:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Well either 2 regulators are wrong, or the wiring is incorrect.

How can the generator motor? It motors because it is being fed from the battery. You are the man on the ground and only you can troubleshoot it.
If you disconnect the arm terminal on the generator is it live?

This shouldn't be too hard to fix.

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Old 10-10-2021, 02:10 PM   #6
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I will ck as soon as I can.
Running well before, all wires removed were replaced where they came from.
Frustrating..........
Paul in CT
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Old 10-11-2021, 01:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

I pulled the connection off the LARGE post on the back of the gen and it still motors, it's a two post gen.
Does the other connection go to the regulator??
Thanks.
Paul in CT
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Old 10-11-2021, 04:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Did you polarize or re-polarize the generator?
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Old 10-11-2021, 06:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

NO, someone local said to try disconnecting wires at the gen before polarizing.
Paul
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Old 10-12-2021, 02:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo View Post
I pulled the connection off the LARGE post on the back of the gen and it still motors, it's a two post gen.
Does the other connection go to the regulator??
Thanks.
Paul in CT

Hey Paul .....Let's start from scratch. Tell me about your VOLTAGE REGULATOR.

1....Does REGULATOR have THREE connection points?

2....If so, how is EACH one labeled? (BAT, GEN, FIELD) or (ARM, FIELD, BAT)?

3....I believe you said that your generator was a TWO-post generator. Does that mean that your Generator is marked with "FIELD" & "ARMATURE"?



Paul.....Please answer these questions carefully. Let's be precise, and NOT in a hurry!!

I'll be back after you verify the above, and we'll go from there. Put your glasses on & use plenty of light. DD


NEXT Time Around:





The FORD SYSTEM IS THE TYPE B CIRCUIT. Remove the field wire from the regulator and touch it over onto the B battery terminal for a second.

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Last edited by V8COOPMAN; 10-12-2021 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 10-12-2021, 02:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Thank you V8COOPMAN. The generator has two studs, can't discern any markings. One stud is larger than the other and is at the rear, the smaller stud is on the side. The regulator is marked ARM, Field, BAT just like the one it replaced.
It motors with enough force to turn the engine over.
The car had been running fine since the same marked regulator was replaced last year.
Problem started with just the generator humming/slight vibration but steadily got worse. I'm not a wiring guru.
Paul
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

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Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo View Post
Thank you V8COOPMAN. The generator has two studs, can't discern any markings. One stud is larger than the other and is at the rear, the smaller stud is on the side. The regulator is marked ARM, Field, BAT just like the one it replaced.
It motors with enough force to turn the engine over.
The car had been running fine since the same marked regulator was replaced last year.
Problem started with just the generator humming/slight vibration but steadily got worse. I'm not a wiring guru.
Paul

OK Paul, so far....so good. There are TWO basic types of charging circuits....Type "A", and Type "B". This is determined by the generator itself, as well as the voltage regulator type.

Fords of that vintage should be of the "B" type. I BELIEVE that "B" type regulators have three terminals marked as yours is...ARM--FLD--BAT.

Your wiring connections should look as below.





NOW Paul .....Some things you need to realize. You said that your regulator started-out VIBRATING/HUMMING. That MAY be as a result of NOT polarizing a new generator or regulator BEFORE starting the engine initially.

I'm thinking that you POSSIBLY may have already done some harm to that new regulator, but possibly NOT. But, it needs to be properly polarized. Before we go ant farther, you MUST verify that YOUR wiring connections resemble that diagram above, or the UPPER HALF of colored diagram BELOW.

BIG wire between BIG lug on REAR of generator and "ARM" on regulator.

SMALLER wire between SMALL lug on SIDE of generator and "FLD" on regulator.

LARGER size wire from BATTERY or SOLENOID connection, POSSIBLY through ammeter, and on to "BAT" on regulator.

The UPPER HALF of this diagram (BELOW) shows about what your connections should look like....NEG BAT post if POS GROUND. You MAY, or MAY NOT have that separate GROUND WIRE.





Now, with ALL wiring connections verified, let's attempt to polarize.

First, remove the BATTERY CABLE connection at POS BATTERY post. This will take any power off of regulator, like starting from scratch.

Now, re-attach CABLE to POS BATT post.

DO NOT turn key on! DO NOT crank engine!


CAREFULLY, remove the "FLD" wire from terminal on regulator. DO NOT let it touch any metal surface.

Carefully, take the end of "FLD" wire and briefly TOUCH it to the "BAT" terminal on VOLTAGE REGulator. Do that a couple of times. You should see a slight spark each time.

Now, carefully re-connect the "FLD" wire to the "FLD" terminal on voltage regulator.


PLEASE...Follow these directions explicitly, and IN ORDER!
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Now, crank-up your engine and tell us what your results are. Hopefully, all will be normal. If NOT normal, it's likely that your regulator (or generator) is damaged internally.

ANY TIME you work on GEN or REGULATOR circuits, you MUST re-polarize. It also won't hurt to re-polarize any time BATTERY is disconnected from circuit.

What do ya think, Paul? DD












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Old 10-13-2021, 07:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

My 32 showed a massive discharge on the ammeter when I first started it.
It was ok after repolarising the generator.
I showed it in my start up video.
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

V8COOPMAN & Mart, When I put the regulator on I DID polarize it. Even with the new reg polarized and wires correct it still motors.
Paul
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Hi Paul,


Regarding your earlier post "NO, someone local said to try disconnecting wires at the gen before polarizing", I urge you to go through the steps that v8coopman laid out for you so you can check it off from your list :-)


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Old 10-13-2021, 09:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

A lot of interesting and perhaps useful information but I have just one thought, thank heaven for one wire alternators.
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:55 AM   #17
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo View Post
Thank you V8COOPMAN. The generator has two studs, can't discern any markings. One stud is larger than the other and is at the rear, the smaller stud is on the side. The regulator is marked ARM, Field, BAT just like the one it replaced.
It motors with enough force to turn the engine over.
The car had been running fine since the same marked regulator was replaced last year.
Problem started with just the generator humming/slight vibration but steadily got worse. I'm not a wiring guru.
Paul

Is this possible? I had the points stick on a regulator one time and
all it did was smoke the generator.
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Old 10-13-2021, 11:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Hi Paul,


Regarding your earlier post "NO, someone local said to try disconnecting wires at the gen before polarizing", I urge you to go through the steps that v8coopman laid out for you so you can check it off from your list :-)

Paul .....AGAIN, I will suggest taking the cover off of the regulator. Check to see if any of the contacts (points) are closed with the ignition TURNED OFF?

Have you taken the generator to a shop to have IT'S health evaluated?

Other than this, the only other POSSIBILITY that comes to mind is the grounding of the generator itself, as well as the grounding of the regulator.

Take your ohm meter probes and verify that you have continuity between generator case and intake manifold. Also verify that you have continuity between regulator base and engine block. As a matter of fact, you should have continuity between regulator BASE, and GENERATOR case. DD

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Old 10-13-2021, 01:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

I've seen regulators do funny things. Had a charging problem, took the cover off & it charged fine. Cover back on, no charge. I found a plastic butter container & taped it in place temporarily till I got a new regulator. Kept " the buttered" up one as a spare....go figure.....
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Old 10-13-2021, 02:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

I did polarize the regulator wheen I installed it. Identicle to the one taken off and wires went back to same places. I had a few minutes to day and removed the wire from the SMALL stud on the side of the generator, applied power and it still motored. There is a small ground strap from the gen to the block and the mounting is bare metal. The gen was taken to a shop and I was told it was good. Only thing he was concerned with iss the armature had a little front to rear movement, maybe a "smidge" over 1/8".
Paul
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