Sparton Horn Overhaul

[Charlville]

Hi All

I've just started looking at the non working Sparton horn on my 1929 Sport Coupe, and I've had a look around for advice on how far gone these need to be before they are deemed unrepairable by an amateur, and not found too much. Mine looks very much its 80 odd years, and has the adjusting screw missing.

If I apply voltage to the terminals the motor will occasionally turn very slowly and then stop. I wonder if anyone can please take a look at the attached pic and advise of the best way to go, or perhaps point me at a thread or article?

I think my first action will be to give it all a doing with electrical switch cleaner?

Thanks


Kevin

[tudoor]

Its good that it turns over so it isn't shorted out. Start with a good cleaning with electrical cleaner, clean the copper armature with a scotch pad and then lube the shaft at both ends. I think that will make it work.

[[email protected]]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B7YtS9FtTE

This Youtube video maybe helpful.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B7YtS9FtTE

This Youtube video maybe helpful.

That video is anything but helpful. That guy doesn't have a clue about what he's doing, and what he does do is all wrong. He is just the kind of shade tree mechanic that screws up good original parts through ignorance instead of either taking the time to learn how to do it right or passing it on to someone who knows what to do and how to do it right.

You might get the idea this kind of foolishness makes me a little upset. You'd be right!

[[email protected]]

I do not endorse these videos as for being for fine point judging but they do show the basics of the Sparton horn and dissassembly for anyone who has never had one taken apart. These Youtube videos come up first with any search on the Internet so to correct this someone needs to take up the challenge of posting a better one on Youtube to higher standards.
Afraid to post any more.
Dave

[30ccpickup]

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Try Cleaning it 1st.

[JTW]

30ccpickup - I must say you have a firm grip on computer generated information. Thank you for your excellent work.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I do not endorse these videos as for being for fine point judging but they do show the basics of the Sparton horn and dissassembly for anyone who has never had one taken apart. These Youtube videos come up first with any search on the Internet so to correct this someone needs to take up the challenge of posting a better one on Youtube to higher standards.
Afraid to post any more.
Dave

Dave, it wasn't my intent to attack you or your post, though I see how you might take it that way. My point was that the information and methods of work shown in that video are detrimental to the horn and are a bad example to people who might not know any better, and therefore think that that's a good demo. It's not. I think it was irresponsible to put that video up, for the reasons I've stated, and because it could lead the uninitiated to damage their horn.

Don't take it personally.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with all of what 1930 coupe just said except I wouldn't replace the brushes unless they are too worn and need to be replaced. However, they must be clean as he said, and I usually find a fair amount of oil and dirt in them. Carb spray and a blow gun work well to clean the brushes.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Dave, it wasn't my intent to attack you or your post, though I see how you might take it that way. My point was that the information and methods of work shown in that video are detrimental to the horn and are a bad example to people who might not know any better, and therefore think that that's a good demo. It's not. I think it was irresponsible to put that video up, for the reasons I've stated, and because it could lead the uninitiated to damage their horn.

Don't take it personally.

No problem for me, I just thought I was being helpful here on FB.

As a side note, I just revisited this Youtube video site and it has more hits / viewers then most of the Ford Barn threads. So lots of people have viewed the four part Sparton horn videos that he posted and as with anything on the Internet it is up to the viewers to decide if it a useful video.

Also it looks now like a FB member has just commented on this video today with a negative to the poster of the video. Here is the video poster's defensive reply back to him:

"JellyrollHorton, please share a video of your expertise on properly restoring a horn like this. I don't profess to be a professional, just sharing what I did know. I tried to find something on Youtube, but there wasn't anything to be found. There was little else to be found anywhere else either. Rather than just criticizing my video, show us how it is done properly. Thank you. I appreciate your taking the time to stop by.
George"

So he as well as I put out the challenge again for someone with the knowledge to post a better Horn video on Youtube that will become the Golden Standard for the younger generation that is getting their Model A info off of the Internet and not always from the FB members.

It takes a lot of time and effort to produce any video to post on an Internet site and I am sure these posters do not mean to do any harm and they probably would appreciate helpful comments about their video to improve the information they presented over just being bashed about it...

[whirnot]

I would mirror what Tom said, but I would first spray some WD40 on the rear shaft where it goes through the frame, and spin the armature by hand to clean it out. There is no real bushing there and with the amount of rust that is shown I would want to get it out as much as possible. The proceed as usual.

[chiliman]

you can do what you want with WD40 only thing Iwould use for is to spray inside of distubator cap that stuff will gum up things and make it twice as hard to clean have a blessed day

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

That video is anything but helpful. That guy doesn't have a clue about what he's doing, and what he does do is all wrong. He is just the kind of shade tree mechanic that screws up good original parts through ignorance instead of either taking the time to learn how to do it right or passing it on to someone who knows what to do and how to do it right.

You might get the idea this kind of foolishness makes me a little upset. You'd be right!

Hi Ray! Can you post your video then of the correct way to do it, so our members can see your way? Thanks!

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

Hi Ray! Can you post your video then of the correct way to do it, so our members can see your way? Thanks!

A man has to know his limitations. I don't know any more about making videos than the Shade Tree Mechanic knows about reworking horns. That doesn't mean he doesn't know how to make videos, or that I don't know how to rebuild horns. But if I ever do make a video, you can be sure it will not be a compilation of poor work methods and misinformation.

I will assume that you are not just being a smart aleck, but that you sincerely want to know how to service a horn. If that assumption is correct, read Volume I of "How to Restore Your Model A."

[Charlville]

Thanks to everyone for the great responses, really gives me a good starting point

Regards

Kevin

[newshirt]

Here is what I would do, but it may be more than you're wanting to get into right now. If you do proceed, take numerous photographs as you take things apart so you know how they go back together.

1. Order new brushes, brush holders, brush springs, connectors, diaphragm, diaphragm gaskets, top and bottom armature springs, adjustment arm, adjustment screw, felts, and flange bolts from Bert's or others
2. Remove the six flange bolts that attach the motor to the bell
3. Unsolder the wires that lead to the connectors
4. Remove the nut at the bottom of the armature
5. Remove the two bolts that hold the frame on
6. Pull the armature out
7. Replace every electrical part except the field coils and armature
8. Clean the commutate with scotch bright and a toothpick
9. Optionally blast, prime, and repaint metal parts
10. Reassemble according to your photos
11. Light oil on armature felts
12. Adjust for optimal sound (when adjusted correctly, you should hear three distinct sounds: Aghh-ooooo-gaaah)

Pay special attention to where cardboard insulators go. When finished, there should be no continuity from anything electrical to ground. If there is, you may have left out an insulator on the bottom connectors or brush holders.

[Richard Redmond]

Hi Charlville,

Newshirt has given you a pretty thorough tear down and rebuild list.

You may also want to try the article 'Care & Feeding of the Model A Horn", p.103 of Vol. 1, How to Restore Your Model A, 2nd. edition.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Charlville mentioned that the adjusting screw was missing. Are there more than 1 type, & are they easily available?
I've had Vermin for 3 years & keep forgetting to see what brand my horn is?? (DUM-DEE-DUM-DUM!) Bill W.

[Charlville]

Hi Bill

You make a good point, now I'm looking a bit closer I suspect the motor cover on my horn is a replacement (states Sparton), so I'll investigate the adjusting screw and plate situation, as the plate and it's associated parts are also missing. (as per the picture)

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Charlville mentioned that the adjusting screw was missing. Are there more than 1 type, & are they easily available?
I've had Vermin for 3 years & keep forgetting to see what brand my horn is?? (DUM-DEE-DUM-DUM!) Bill W.

[Charlville]

Hi Richard

Thanks for the tip on "Care & Feeding of the Model A Horn", p.103 of Vol. 1, How to Restore Your Model A, 2nd. edition". Very handy

Regards

Kevin