Rear Axle brake drum hub Shim sleeve ?

[Aok]

When I removed the rear wheels I found these shims on both rear axles are they a correct item or something someone added ?

[Russ/40]

They are typically added, when people have the problem of the drums rubbing on the backing plates.

[700rpm]

I got 'em. They work well.

[larrys40]

Aok,

The shims are used as Russ said to shim the hub/drum out a little if in fact it is rubbing when fully torqued ( I torque to 150 ft lbs). That said, the core of the problem really lies with the fact that either the axle, axle key, hub, or all three are worn.. and have been "worked and "worn" under use so that their mating properties are not what they were when the car was new. I really don't like to use the shims at all... as no matter how tight you torque them now.. they will eventially loosen up a little. Folks forget... but it is a good idea to retorque the axle nuts ( again, I torque to 150 ft lbs) to ensure that everything is tight. There are several thicknesses of shims. Recently I have seen some from one of the key suppliers that is very thick. Personally I really don't like that one as the propensity to seat fully within the hub/around the axle is not what the thinner one would be. In restoring a car.... I would never want a shim on... I would rather correct the problem. Sometimes in "service work", shims have to be used ( folks don't want to replace drums, axles need to be rebuilt but are deferred.. hubs to be obtained etc) once in a while to correct the problem. Again, they are not good to use under a permanent situation. They are a band-aid In my opinion.

Carefully inspect all parts.. many times is the key and hub that are the problem. Keyways should be tight and edges sharp. If rounded your axle is worn. It's not too difficult to do either as opposed to an axle. of course make sure your axle threads and nut are good. If not replace. Axle threads are very important. Think about it.. they keep the wheel on!! Working on one now the guy had the rear hub drum come off because someone didn't tighten and put on a cotter key in the rear hub/nut.

Just my take.. and hope that helps understand the root of the problem.
Larry S.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

If rubbing the backing plates is the problem, "MAYBE" a machine shop could turn some off the backside of the drum???? Or if hitting the backing plates in just 1 spot, Possibly the backing plates are crooked??? Bill W.

[Aok]

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Thanks some good information, not sure why the shims were added as yesterday was the 1st time I saw them when I pulled the rear drums. I needed to see what I had in there mostly wanted to be sure I was ok for some local driving the year. The linings have some life left maybe 4-5 thousand so it will do for now and I will have to look a little closer at this when I work on the brake system. That will have to wait until fall/winter as I just replaced the motor and not a lot of money left in the A budget right now.

[Purdy Swoft]

I have never had a problem from useing axle shims, that is what they are made for.

[columbiA]

I make axle shims from a tin can.Make a paper template & cut to size.Then mark out the pattern on the tin & cut to fit.I have never had a problem useing shims. If you need more than one per side,then I would look for a better hub and / or axle shaft.Recheck the axle nut for torque after 100 miles & if OK,should be fine.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I have never had a problem from useing axle shims, that is what they are made for.

Same here

[redmodelt]

150 Foot Pounds of torque is way high. 120 tops is what I have seen in the books. At 150 you should be checking for pulled threads. If you have to go that high to get the cotter pin hole to line up, you should be taking the nut off and grinding a little off the back.
And that't my take!

[johnsor]

Often axels are very old with threads becoming worn and stretched thru many drum removals and re-torque. I often use new axel nuts, but the male axel threads may be worn and weaker, and may strip if tightened too much. A stripped axel thread requires replacing the whole axel, which is a very big job. I don't even use a torque wrench, but go by sensible "feel" when tightening such axel nuts. Also, I have drilled the cotter pin hole slightly larger and used a hardened split roll pin in place of a cotter key.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

TIN CAN, TIN CAN???? Did someone say they made them from a TIN CAN????
At least, the proper ones are made reasonably precise & appear to be made of quality material.
IF I ever had to use them, personally, I would use Blue Loctite on the inside & the outside of the shims. YES, maybe somewhere down the road, I might not be able to get the dad blamed drums off+*#%#$% But in the meantime, I would feel quite SAFE & SECURE!!!
I'd HATE to break down out in the boonies & have to send the poor Dog out for help!! Bill W.

[Russ/40]

He's a real handsome fellow isn't he.

[Ross/Kzoo]

Bill or Buster?

[Richard Redmond]

When I stripped down the hubs, rear axles and differential on my Uruguayan (always have difficulty spelling that word) 29 Roadster, I was surprised to find scrolled up fragments of silvery metal/tin in the diff casing. Later , after poring over Snyder and Mac catalogues, I realised that the curled metal remnants must have been axle shims!

It would seem that the shims had been pushed through the seals when the hubs were installed and migrated into the diff where they were chewed up! I never replaced the shims and my hubs seem to be a good fit on the axle taper so heaven knows why the shims were needed in the first place.

I like Bill's idea of Loctite on the shims if you really are forced to use them.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Ford actually released a torque spec, I think for the first time, near the end of early Ford production, around 1946-8 in a service letter. It was...hold onto your hat...right around 200! I believe that this can be taken as applicable to the earlier cars. Nut, axle threads, and keys are the same parts, and axles were still made the same way in '28 and '48, differing only in length and spider tooth count. Ford axles had three different heat treat areas to accomplish the different needs of gear, shaft and hub areas. 150 is a bit less terrifying and apparently nowhere near disaster. If tapers are bad or if the torque there is too low, the key will be driving the car...bad news.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Ross/Kzoo

Bill or Buster?

OK! smartso, I'll have you know that just yesterday I changed my "T" shirt, got my 9 month haircut, shaved OFF my scroungy beard mess, bought a NEW black hat, & chatted Model A stuff with a cute READHEAD!! As handsome as he is, can Buster T. top that?? Bill W.

[Roger V]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

OK! smartso, I'll have you know that just yesterday I changed my "T" shirt, got my 9 month haircut, shaved OFF my scroungy beard mess, bought a NEW black hat, & chatted Model A stuff with a cute READHEAD!! As handsome as he is, can Buster T. top that?? Bill W.

Golly, what was the "READHEAD" reading?

[BlockBuster]

I found this thread while boning up on some info, but can I pose a question relating to the shim/hub/axle relationship?

I just rebuilt my entire rear end with the help of Mr. Tom Endy's dissertation. However, I'm using '40 hydraulic drums and backing plates, both of which are in very good condition as are the axles. My problem is that I installed a shim, key and hub and was met with little to no resistance as the hub bottomed out against the backing plate. I'm not sure of the shim thickness, but regardless the hub slipped right on up the axle. Could it be that just a thicker shim would solve this problem? I'm a little perplexed to say the least.

[CarlG]

When I first took mine apart, there were the remnants of several shims. When it went back together I think I used 2 shims to make everything fit just right and still not hit the backing plate. I've even heard of shims made from "tin" cans" in order to get the thickness needed to snug everything up.