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Old 12-23-2018, 02:06 PM   #1
30 Closed Cab PU
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Default Late 30 PU Motor VIN

My PU has the attached motor # in the picture. According to Steve's website it could be period (June 1930) correct, but he mentions other considerations on if the # is original to the motor. original stamping, or if it may has been ground down and re-stamped. Looks original to my untrained eye, looks same as surrounding block, not ground down. Just want to confirm.


Would like to get the opinion of an expert if this motor # appears original - typeface, stamping method, if it looks like it has been ground down/re-stamped, etc.


Thanks
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Old 12-23-2018, 02:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

Looks original to me, not restamped. Of course that number may not match the frame number and could have been a replacement engine at some point. ?
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Old 12-23-2018, 02:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

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Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
Looks original to me, not restamped. Of course that number may not match the frame number and could have been a replacement engine at some point. ?

I agree.


From what I have read and info on the BARN, Frame and Motor #s do not match, they are typically close though, within up to 3 months. Motors are stamped when they are assembled/tested, frames stamped during assembly of the vehicle. Motor may sit up to 3 months before being assembled into a vehicle. Mine is within the 3 month window, improves chances that it is original to the Truck.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

The frame number would be the same as the engine number. There would be no lag time between those numbers. From the factory the numbers would match. Ford did not stamp the engine and mate it to a prestamped frame with a different number. Nor did Ford prestamp a bare block, only after being built and tested. While blocks may have been aged 3 months does not change the fact that numbers should match.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

Looks good to me.

I have had restamped blocks. You can tell they have been ground down, and the number stamping is different. Most don’t include the stars.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
The frame number would be the same as the engine number. There would be no lag time between those numbers. From the factory the numbers would match. Ford did not stamp the engine and mate it to a prestamped frame with a different number. Nor did Ford prestamp a bare block, only after being built and tested. While blocks may have been aged 3 months does not change the fact that numbers should match.


My understanding was wrong


Thanks, I did not know the frames were stamped with the motor # when the motors were assembled onto the frame.


Seems all I can say is the motor is period correct and the motor was built in June 1930, and most likely has not been re-stamped. If the truck frame is stamped with the same #, then the motor is original to the truck. If this is all correct, the truck was built in June, July, or August, of 1930. I can not remember when in 1930 Ford switched from the early/late styles


The truck has a WI replacement title since I could not find a title when I inherited it, had not been registered for 50 years, . The engine # was used to re-title it. Frame # is unknown at this time, did not have the cab pulled off, was advised not to because most likely the frame# would not be legible, rusted away, etc. When re-titled the cop looked at the engine # and signed the papers he noted on the paperwork it was the engine #, the paperwork was accepted, no issues with the State of WI. After 5 years of surety bond I now have a clear title
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Old 12-25-2018, 11:03 AM   #7
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

That works! Merry Christmas.
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Old 12-25-2018, 11:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

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That works! Merry Christmas.

Merry Xmas to you too! Thanks for the info/correction. So much info to learn, too few brain cells left. Butchering an old saying/song - "The old gray matter ain't what she used to be".
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Old 12-25-2018, 03:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

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Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
Merry Xmas to you too! Thanks for the info/correction. So much info to learn, too few brain cells left. Butchering an old saying/song - "The old gray matter ain't what she used to be".

Your corrected understanding is right - engines were numbered after assembly/testing. Then, when the engine was installed in a frame, that number was stamped on the frame. There could be up to a 3-month lag between numbering of engine and frame. I agree your engine number does not appear to have been re-stamped. If it matches the frame number, it is original to the truck (assuming the body hasn't been changed, which is unlikely). The changeover from early "square" to later "round" cab was June, 1930. If yours is a round cab, it could have been built June, July, or August as you say - if it's square, it still could have been built in June if the engine was used shortly after it was stamped. Remember, the lag was up to 3 months.


The engine number was commonly used as the "VIN" on titles.
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Old 12-25-2018, 05:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

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Originally Posted by CHuDWah View Post
Your corrected understanding is right - engines were numbered after assembly/testing. Then, when the engine was installed in a frame, that number was stamped on the frame. There could be up to a 3-month lag between numbering of engine and frame. I agree your engine number does not appear to have been re-stamped. If it matches the frame number, it is original to the truck (assuming the body hasn't been changed, which is unlikely). The changeover from early "square" to later "round" cab was June, 1930. If yours is a round cab, it could have been built June, July, or August as you say - if it's square, it still could have been built in June if the engine was used shortly after it was stamped. Remember, the lag was up to 3 months.
The engine number was commonly used as the "VIN" on titles.
It has been established that the engine number IS THE SERIAL NUMBER.

I have to disagree with this 3 month thinking. My Early '30 engine number 3334675 was stamped in May 06, 1930. And the Early '30 stopped production sometime in June '30. This means that my engine was installed in the frame in May or June of '30 a matter of weeks, not months. My AA is a California build and shows all of the late production changes. Twist lock gas cap, No date on gas tank, no body number, side view mirror on door post.
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

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Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
It has been established that the engine number IS THE SERIAL NUMBER...
So...? If Ford considered the engine number the serial number that doesn't necessarily mean a state would use it for title purposes. Although like I said, they commonly did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
...I have to disagree with this 3 month thinking. My Early '30 engine number 3334675 was stamped in May 06, 1930. And the Early '30 stopped production sometime in June '30. This means that my engine was installed in the frame in May or June of '30 a matter of weeks, not months. My AA is a California build and shows all of the late production changes. Twist lock gas cap, No date on gas tank, no body number, side view mirror on door post.
Again, so...? Pretty much what I said in the post you quoted - it was up to 3 months, could be less.
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

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Originally Posted by CHuDWah View Post
Your corrected understanding is right - engines were numbered after assembly/testing. Then, when the engine was installed in a frame, that number was stamped on the frame. There could be up to a 3-month lag between numbering of engine and frame. I agree your engine number does not appear to have been re-stamped. If it matches the frame number, it is original to the truck (assuming the body hasn't been changed, which is unlikely). The changeover from early "square" to later "round" cab was June, 1930. If yours is a round cab, it could have been built June, July, or August as you say - if it's square, it still could have been built in June if the engine was used shortly after it was stamped. Remember, the lag was up to 3 months.


The engine number was commonly used as the "VIN" on titles.

The cab is the "round cab style, so is a late 30.


IMHO, lacking history/paperwork, the only way to ensure the motor and frame match is to remove the cab. It is remotely possible the motor/block has been replaced with a period correct motor/block.
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Old 12-26-2018, 09:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

Guys,

From what I have found is this...the closer the assembly plant was to Dearborn, the quicker the engine, after arriving from Dearborn, was put into a chassis on the assembly line at that particular assembly plant. For the furthest...3-4 weeks. For insatance, San Francisco...about 3 weeks on the average but in some cases not.

I also agree with Chris..this "3 month" thing is a little to much (extreme) IMO. HOWEVER, yes, a few engines could of sat around for that much time before assembling into a chassis but not very many did, and yes, there are proven cases as with the SF assembly plant. IMO.

Now take Dearborn...most of the time the assembly was done almost immeditaly.

You can review this if you wish:

http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/bos/AN...PRODUCTION.pdf

http://www.plucks329s.org/assembly_plants.htm

Pluck

Last edited by Steve Plucker; 12-26-2018 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

Thanks, Steve. I knew I had seen this info before, somehow missed it on your site when recently searching again for it. Great info.


Am curious.
Was motor testing performed before or after assembling the body onto the frame? If a motor failed was the frame re-stamped with the replacement motor #?
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:19 AM   #15
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Default Re: Late 30 PU Motor VIN

From what I know...the motors were tested and "run-in" if that is the correct terminology, after assembly of the motor itself, then it was stamped and sent on its way to the assembly line...if something was wrong, the engine was put aside to see what the problem was then either fixed and stamped or scrapped (no stamp).

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