Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-08-2016, 12:40 PM   #1
tinkirk
Senior Member
 
tinkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Posts: 363
Question insert bearings or not

Just wondering about insert bearings on the mains.
Will they hold up without putting system under pressure?
and if so what might be the best ones out there?
also what is the best thing to do about a rear main seal
tinkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 01:14 PM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,486
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkirk View Post
Just wondering about insert bearings on the mains.
1) Will they hold up without putting system under pressure?

2) and if so what might be the best ones out there?

3) also what is the best thing to do about a rear main seal

1) Yes.

2) The ones that Antique Engine Rebuilding manufactures.

3) The "best thing" is likely to receive an opinionated answer, however please know that if the rear main journal pin to bearing clearance is within correct specification, there won't be any leakage providing the drain tube is properly installed.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 03-08-2016, 01:21 PM   #3
tinkirk
Senior Member
 
tinkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Posts: 363
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Thank You Brent for your reply i will look into them.

I've been reading on here about removing the rear slinger and installing a rope seal!

I've thought about this but didn't quite know where or how it would fit

Tinkirk
tinkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 01:25 PM   #4
George Miller
Senior Member
 
George Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2,975
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Years ago when there was a lot Guys that did a good job on babbitt I would go with Babbitt. Now days inserts are the way to go. Plus in my case can machine my engines for inserts myself.
George Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 02:38 PM   #5
tinkirk
Senior Member
 
tinkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Posts: 363
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Thank You
had a guy tell me that he thought Babbitt was better, because it was softer and would withstand the dirt better than inserts
he was saying that i should put he system under pressure with a filter if i was going to run inserts.
tinkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 03:33 PM   #6
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,472
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkirk View Post
Thank You
had a guy tell me that he thought Babbitt was better, because it was softer and would withstand the dirt better than inserts
he was saying that i should put he system under pressure with a filter if i was going to run inserts.
From my experience, a filter is VERY desirable with inserted bearings and will not negatively affect the performance of the bearings, rather it will extend their life.
In my inserted motors, I pressurise the middle main only (25-30 psi) with an upgraded pump and leave the others with standard oiling. Tens of thousands of miles done towing a camper weighing about 1 US ton ( a bit lighter than any other ton) with no trouble, in fact I tore the the engine down after the last trip to inspect and just put it all back together. For ordinary driving, the stock oiling system will be fine. You won't need to worry about it till a babbitt motor will have needed new bearings.
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 05:06 PM   #7
tinkirk
Senior Member
 
tinkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Posts: 363
Default Re: insert bearings or not

would like to see pictures of that if possible
thanks for the reply
tinkirk
tinkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 11:23 PM   #8
Dodge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sonoma, CA.
Posts: 1,491
Default Re: insert bearings or not

If your worried about it you can add an oil filter that will filter 95% of the oil in the engine
still using the stock oiling system. Check out the options on Snyders Antique Auto Parts
Web site. One type replaces the side valve covers and this is the one that will filter
most of the oil. They other type is a by-pass type filter but it can be modified to filter
most of the oil also.
And don't put dirt in the motor and you won't have to worry about it.......
Dodge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 06:58 AM   #9
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: insert bearings or not

The inserts hold up well without a filter... Do your oil changes more frequently if you don't run one. You won't have any rear main leaks,, going with the original design as long as everything is set up right. I would not go Babbitt
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 07:08 AM   #10
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: insert bearings or not

you need go no further than #2 and #9. These guys have been involved with many many motors.

Much of what you have heard is myth and not fact, there are many uninformed ppl out there who have become self-designated 'experts'. Resist the temptation to be swayed by them.

I hear 'you need pressure for inserts' all the time; it just is not true and is not based on any fact or experience at all
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 07:30 AM   #11
1929
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 943
Default Re: insert bearings or not

I had inserts installed because I was told it would hold up better with higher compression, inserts added $700 more to the bill.
1929 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 07:54 AM   #12
tinkirk
Senior Member
 
tinkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Posts: 363
Thumbs up Re: insert bearings or not

Thanks guys I appreciate the feed back
never worked on an A before Jan 2015, sense that time I've learned a whole lot
it all started because i was bored and, asked my brother in law what he thought about pulling one of his old cars out of the barn/ chicken coop and i would see if i could get it running, had not run sense 1957 when he put it away.

so about 4.5 hrs later it was running not to well but it would start without too much trouble so then the learning started happening as i tore it down to bare frame and put it back together drove it all summer and now it's all back apart again for paint and rebuilt

so i say thank you to all of you that have help me thru this process as the learning continues.

Tinkirk
tinkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 08:28 AM   #13
George Miller
Senior Member
 
George Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2,975
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkirk View Post
Thank You Brent for your reply i will look into them.

I've been reading on here about removing the rear slinger and installing a rope seal!

I've thought about this but didn't quite know where or how it would fit

Tinkirk
Please do not remove the slinger. Many slingers that were removed are now being welded back on. The slinger works some of the seals do not work so well.

Many cars with inserts came with out a filter back in the 50ts. The filter was a option.Ford Chev and many more.
George Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 08:47 AM   #14
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,811
Default Re: insert bearings or not

As George Miller said, some cars in the 50s did not have oil filters. My stock 56 Chevy with a six did not have one.
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 10:06 AM   #15
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: insert bearings or not

"I had inserts installed because I was told it would hold up better with higher compression, inserts added $700 more to the bill."

and the next time you need bearings all you do is a cheapo bearing shell changeout, no more machining needed.

Inserts should cost no more than babbitting, maybe less. Sounds like the guy just shoved an extra 700.00 in his pocket
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 05:37 PM   #16
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,486
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
Inserts should cost no more than babbitting, maybe less. Sounds like the guy just shoved an extra 700.00 in his pocket
Naturally I can't speak for everyone else but for us, there is more work/time involved in correctly machining a block for inserts. First, there is the task of pinning the caps. Also machining for the tang. When I cut babbitt bearings, the boring process goes quicker but when I machine the cast iron block, my cutter feed rate is much slower, and you must wait for the block to be cool on the final cut to ensure you are within .00025"+/-. Then the thrust bearing pockets much be cut on the block and cap, which takes additional time over cutting babbitt. Also, the thrust washers must be fitted and pinned. You also have the added expense of the bearings over babbitt, -and the cost of the inserted connecting rods over poured rods. Again, others probably have a difference of opinion, but for us there just seems to be more time/expense involved.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 06:19 PM   #17
Bruce Adams
Senior Member
 
Bruce Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 1,597
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Antique Engines has sold many engines with insert bearings and not necessarily equipped with filter, having many many thousands of miles on these engines. I have enjoyed my insert Engine built by Antique Engines for the past five years or so at 2000 miles per year, using 5W30 Mobil One Synthetic Oil. The Rebuilder says Synthetic or traditional mineral oil is the owner's option.
Bruce Adams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 07:50 PM   #18
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Brent, those are fair comments
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 09:40 AM   #19
Jeff/Illinois
Senior Member
 
Jeff/Illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,787
Default Re: insert bearings or not

No opinion either way really I guess as with almost everything, it comes down to the skill level of the guy doing the job be it inserts or babbitt.

I've never had any personal experience with an insert engine. You can read almost anything into either case good and/or bad. But my experience with people over the years is, you always come across some sad sack ready to condemn somebody else's work and usually they have little or no experience themselves

I do believe I read once that once you go inserts you can't go back. With the Terry Burtz block on the horizon that will level the playing field!
Jeff/Illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 09:56 AM   #20
tinkirk
Senior Member
 
tinkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Posts: 363
Default Re: insert bearings or not

Yes and everyone is different and different opinions and that's what makes the world go round
can you imagine what it would be like if everyone was the same

Thank You all for the feed back
Have a good day and keep learning
Make each day a Masterpiece

Tinkirk
tinkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 PM.