Upgrade brakes on my 42

[edhd58]

Ok, another question, or two, or .........
If I go with a kit such as the ECI or one of the others that supplies the hub, that's going to change the bolt pattern isn't it, and don't they just supply the front hubs? or am I just not seeing a rear kit?
OR regardless what I do will i need to change all the hubs and drums??
Or is the F100 hubs the same pattern as the 42 hubs so if I use them I keep my wheels I have now?
If I have to change the rears to match the fronts, is that a simple swap as well??
Asking because I don't wanna start something only to get half way through and find out I only half understood what I was getting into.
I know I ask a lot of questions but I've wasted more money than I care to think of on this because I didn't as enough questions in the past.
AND thanks guys to everyone that has had input. It has given me many more things to think about.

For some reason the Speedway kit is about 1/2 the cost of the ECI one. wonder why??

[JSeery]

On a "kit" you can often specify the stud pattern diameter. I use the 5 1/2 diameter which is what the F1/F100 is. It should be the same as the 42 hubs, 5 1/2 was fairly common in these years.

For rear backing plates, here is one source Nostalgia Sid's

http://www.droppedaxles.com/28-48_Ford_Brakes.html

Rear Axle Backing Plates 1002/ 1928-31 & 1935-48 Stock Rear End

[RCS41PU]

I think the confusion is coming from 2 different F100 brake systems being discussed here. Some people are describing the 1950s pickup DRUM brake system that was a popular hot-rod upgrade long ago (and also still popular!) But now there are F100 DISC upgrade kits available as well that uses 80s? 90s? Ford DISC pickup parts. Both are 5 x 5.5, but the disc conversion requires same 73 and up DISC brake 5 x 5.5 wheels. The old hot-rod DRUM upgrade can still use the 1940-up AND and newer original disc-style wheels .
Richard

[41Joe]

I was doing some research on a disc brake conversion and found this thread. My question is, what is the difference between a wheel designed for drum brakes and one designed for disc brakes? I have 16" drum brake wheels and would like to convert to disc. So what is it about the early drum brake wheel that won't fit?

[mrtexas]

Originally Posted by 41Joe

I was doing some research on a disc brake conversion and found this thread. My question is, what is the difference between a wheel designed for drum brakes and one designed for disc brakes? I have 16" drum brake wheels and would like to convert to disc. So what is it about the early drum brake wheel that won't fit?

I have the speedway discs on my 41 front and the 41 wheels work just fine. I have the eci discs on my 36 with 40 wheels and it works just fine. Go with the speedway kit, cheaper than the eci and the same stuff.

[41Joe]

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Originally Posted by mrtexas

I have the speedway discs on my 41 front and the 41 wheels work just fine.

Which Speedway kit did you go with? I was looking at the 910-31909 kit that has the rotors with the 5X5.5 pattern. I don't want to have to use adapters that will make my track width wider and possibly hitting my fender when I turn.

[mrtexas]

Originally Posted by 41Joe

Which Speedway kit did you go with? I was looking at the 910-31909 kit that has the rotors with the 5X5.5 pattern. I don't want to have to use adapters that will make my track width wider and possibly hitting my fender when I turn.

They do make the track slightly wider but not enough to hit the fenders. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Compl...2-BC,1997.html

[drolston]

$500 tip: If you convert from stock Ford (Lockheed, non-self-energizing) to Lincoln (Bendix, self-energizing), you can just do the front brakes, and get most of the benefit. Due to weight transfer during hard braking, about 80% of stopping power comes from the front wheels.

That is what I did when I converted from 3.78 rear end ration to 3.25 for Interstate cruising. I did an informal before and after test; a full panic stop from 60 takes about 100 ft less.

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by edhd58

i remember reading somewhere that "self-actuating" brakes are a great upgrade. I just am not sure what it is and what all has to be done.

You mentioned, "not sure what it is". Another marathon letter. Early Ford hydraulic brakes are anchored in place at the bottom. They cannot move outward at the bottom, this is just their pivot point. Only the upper part of the shoes can be pushed away from the wheel cylinder and into the drum. So the only force that is being applied to the shoes is at the top.

Self energizing brake shoes are not solidly anchored in one place like the Early Fords shoes are anchored at the bottom. An adjustor goes between the bottom of the two shoes and a spring holds the shoes and adjustor together. The top of the shoes rest against an anchor pin, they are not attached to it Springs keep the shoes held up tight against the anchor pin. The primary (front) shoe and secondary (rear) shoe are connected to each other springs. If you grab the bottom of both shoes you can swing them forward and backwards as an assembly.This swinging motion is where the brakes get their ability to "self energize".

If we were looking at the driver's side wheel of a car, the wheel will spin counter-clockwise so naturally the drum will be spinning counter-clockwise. The brakes are going to use the drum's rotation to apply additional pressure to the secondary shoe (the rear shoe inside the drum) because the bottom assembly of those shoes have the ability to swing rearward. Let me explain, as you apply the brakes the wheel cylinders push the shoes outward until they start to contact the drum. Now the rotation of the drum tries to rotate the brake assembly that's pushing up against it, but it can't because the top of the secondary shoe has a big anchor pin in front of it. But the bottom of the shoes are just floating there, there's no anchor pin down there. Remember we can take them and swing them rearward. The rotating force shoves the bottom of that secondary shoe into the drum. That's the self energizing force applying additional pressure to that secondary shoe. Unlike an Early Ford brake shoe the secondary shoe has a force being applied to it at the top by the wheel cylinder and a force being applied to it at the bottom buy the rotation of the drum.

Because there is more force on the secondary shoe than the primary the secondary shoe's lining is longer to take advantage of the self energizing force. The extra pressure would wear out the secondary shoe before the primary shoe so the secondary shoes are always thicker so they last the amount of time as the primaries. The thick long shoe always goes to the rear on self energizing brakes.

What about Early Ford brakes. I've taken them a part and found the long thick shoe on the rear, because that is what people have been taught to do on self energizing brakes. Wrong! The shoes go on the opposite way on an Early Ford because the Early Ford brake shoes do have some self energizing capability but it works opposite. The shoes are held in place at the bottom so they can't help put additional pressure on the brake drum but the tops can move. If you were to push the rear shoe in towards the wheel cylinder the front shoe would move away from the wheel cylinder and up against the drum because the pressure is transferred through the brake fluid. The rotation of the drum will push on the rear shoe and force the front shoe into the drum. That is why the front shoe is the long one on an Early Ford. You will also notice one side of an Early Ford wheel cylinder is larger than the other. The hydraulic pressure remains the same on both sides of the wheel cylinder but because the front of the cylinder is larger there is more surface area for that pressure to push against. What is going to work better, two 160 lb. guys pushing a car or four 160 lb. guys pushing a car? That is what a larger surface area of a hydraulic cylinder does for you. Your wheel cylinder's size is limited to the size of the master cylinder's piston and stroke. It must be large enough to move enough hydraulic fluid to operate the bigger wheel cylinders but not so large that the pressure is reduced. You can compromise and just make the side of the wheel cylinder larger on the shoes that do most of the braking and not on the reversing shoe where you don't need as much force. On an Early Ford the front shoe is called the "forward" shoe and the rear shoe is the "reversing" shoe.

[41Joe]

Originally Posted by mrtexas

They do make the track slightly wider but not enough to hit the fenders.

Mrtexas,
I am getting ready to pull the trigger on that Speedway kit. Did you run a dual master cylinder or are you still using the stock one? Are you running a proportioning valve as suggested by Speedway?

[mrtexas]

I use one of these https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-...ZZ262O&vxp=mtr and these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/front-brake...c1IMhA&vxp=mtr

A standard 67 Mustang or 67 Chevy dual MCI doesn't have enough space to get the top off on a 41. I put on a 67 Mustang but will replace it with this corvette remote mount dual MC: http://nolimit.net/products#!/Remote...tegory=8625919

Remote dual MC uses VW beatle resevoir and adaptor 3 bolt to 2 bolt MC


Proportioning valve and brake light switch holder


Metering valve which makes sure rear brakes come on first