taking apart a 1938 Woodie

[RTWCO]

I am trying to remove the mechanical brake assembly that fits into the frame behind the transmission. I do not have the body off. The problem seems to be the shaft and arm that sticks through the drivers side of the frame.
I am also trying to remove the clutch and brake assembly, same problem. Clutch pedal assembly will not come through the frame.

I am trying to build a 1938 station wagon that will score very high in a Ford regional meet, say 975 points or higher. I am considering putting hydraulic brakes on this car, does anyone have an idea how many points that will cost me.
Bob Wolfenden, [email protected]

[ford38v8]

First, since you said you're" considering", I'll try to talk you out of it: The '37-'38 Ford cable brakes are known to be the superior brakes of all Ford cars, to and including 1948. They are reliable, of course never leak fluid, and as Henry said, "The safety of steel from pedal to wheel". One small modification to Ford mechanical brakes is in order: Install floaters and they will make a believer out of you.

Now to answer your question about specific point deductions: Pre-1939 hydraulic brakes will cost a standard mandatory deduction of 20 points. Modifications made to accommodate the installation of hydraulics may cost additional points, including but not limited to holes drilled for brackets, slots in inner fender panels to pass brake lines, and the like. These additional point deductions may or may not apply for various reasons, but likely wouldn't be more than an additional 3 points for a very neat installation.

You should also know that there are many pre-1939 Fords that have won a Dearborn while having juice brakes, so it's not impossible to do. It does require an extremely experienced and knowledgeable restorer with unlimited resources to overcome the heavy point cost of the modification. Good luck, and I hope you understand that most judges are perfectly capable of finding a few discrepant items on the most perfect cars.

[woodiewagon46]

I agree with ford38v8. It's sort of like "you can't have your cake and eat it too". Once you install hydraulics you have MODIFIED your car and major points will be deducted. You will also be up against some unsympathetic judges that once they see your modification will tend to deduct points more vigorously on other parts of your car. You have to understand that if your car beats out another car for an award and they have 100% stock equipment there could be an uproar. I have an acquaintance that had a beautiful '36 roadster that had hydros installed and every show he went to he was basically blackballed, in fact when he pulled into some shows he could see the judges getting together and pointing at his car. At one show a judge said to him"so,this is the hydraulic brake car". You can make your mechanical brakes work just fine.

[gasballoon]

I am just refurbishing the cable brakes on my 1938 Woodie. They now pull up straight, but I have to press HARD!

[Lawson Cox]

Great looking survivor.
that woodie would be great to show in the Rouge class.

[TonyM]

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Wow. I like this. Very interesting.
Post some more photos when you can.

Originally Posted by gasballoon

I am just refurbishing the cable brakes on my 1938 Woodie. They now pull up straight, but I have to press HARD!

[gasballoon]

Here's some pics I posted in my profile.
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album.php?albumid=3187

[Snouts out]

RTWCO,go with the mechanical brakes,it will make you a better defensive driver. gasballoon,what is the history of your machine?If it could talk ,it has a great story!

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Gasballoon. Nice woodie. I see it has the mandatory UK marker lamps, semaphores and a neat plate on it too.

GB

[Vic Piano]

Who's going to drive your car... you, or the so called Judges??? From some of the judging I've witnessed in the EFV8 Club, chances are, they wouldn't know the difference... How do you get a "Dearborn" for a pre '39 car with "juice brakes"? As far as I know, that's not the way "Henry built it"... Just another EFV8 Club discrepancy... Build it the way you want it, and enjoy it.

[ford38v8]

Vic, if you knew what you were talking about regarding V8 Club Judging, you'd not be talking about it. Not a EFV8 Club discrepancy, just a Vic showing how much he doesn't know discrepancy. Your third hand report of a novice Judge's error doesn't give you Expert Witness Credentials on the V8 Club Concourse, you know.

[V8ER]

To answer the question about the clutch and brake assembly, on a '36 Ford, the clutch and brake assembly cannot be removed when the body is on the frame, and this is likely also the case with '38 Fords. When doing a body off the frame restoration, the clutch and brake assembly must be installed before the body is set on the frame.

[Vic Piano]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Vic, if you knew what you were talking about regarding V8 Club Judging, you'd not be talking about it. Not a EFV8 Club discrepancy, just a Vic showing how much he doesn't know discrepancy. Your third hand report of a novice Judge's error doesn't give you Expert Witness Credentials on the V8 Club Concourse, you know.

I respectfully disagree Alan. I know exactly what I'm talking about. However, I never put myself out there as an expert. All it takes is one judge's error, novice or otherwise, to basically render the entire judging process invalid. More to my point, why would the EFV8 Club allow "novice" judges on the Concours Field? By virtue of the "Dearborn" award, and the importance they lavish upon it, one should expect, at the very least, to have qualified and capable judges making decisions... Please, for the benefit of all those interested, give us a plausible explanation as to how a modified vehicle, say a '38 station Wagon with retro fit hydraulic brakes, could receive a "Dearborn" award. After all, isn't the EFV8 Club mantra "as Henry built it"? My suggestion that the EFV8 Club judging process, as it stands, is flawed, would appear to be an indefensible position from your side of the discussion.

[toddle321]

Originally Posted by V8ER

To answer the question about the clutch and brake assembly, on a '36 Ford, the clutch and brake assembly cannot be removed when the body is on the frame, and this is likely also the case with '38 Fords. When doing a body off the frame restoration, the clutch and brake assembly must be installed before the body is set on the frame.

Are you sure about this? I removed/rebuilt/reinstalled the clutch/brake pedal assembly when I was going through my 36 Cabriolet. I've never had the body off the frame. I did pull the engine and trans, maybe that made the difference.