A months frustration, Fuel issues

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Thought I would pass this on, Lengthy story.


Hope my theories etc. towards the end are good, am trying to make sense out of all this. If disagree, please correct me.


Just got done battling my A not running for more than 5 minutes at a time. Was dying and occasionally backfiring when dying. Let it sit for an hour, same thing happens. It has taken a month for me to solve the issue. Had to take breaks, I was so discouraged at times.


Learned a lot of stuff most experienced A people likely know, and may give some a chuckle or 2. 1st time it happened I was 30 miles from home and had to have it towed.


Cause - combination of clogging filters and my gas can having contamination. I really really dislike problems that are self inflicted, and seem to be common sense when you realize what has happened.


Starting From the Beginning
Cleaned all 3 filters, drained the tank, siphoned the bottom of the tank, let dry, vacuum - probably did this 6 times. Ran the A between cleanings. 1st few times would find a little grit in the filters, last 2 times no grit. Still will not run more than a few minutes.


Hooked up a small external tank to the carb, ran longer but eventually died. Shortly before the issue, had the carb professionally cleaned and gone through, looked at it, gasket was on correctly so air balancing passage was clear and open. Float level set correctly, fuel coming out of the float valve. Reassembled carb, opened the drain plug, fuel only dripping out. Checked the carb filter again, no grit, upon closer inspection with a magnifier the filter was covered with a clear, opaque substance.


At this point I concluded that the only common factor was the gas container. Poured some gas into a clear jar and found the same stuff. This spring before I used the container I had emptied the container of old gas, put a little fresh gas in, swished it around and emptied it again to flush it. I learned that the handle is hollow, and I possibly did not completely flush everything out.


Emptied the gas container. Added 3 Bottles of isopropyl alcohol, swished it in all orientations, let sit, swished and sit 2 more times. Then drained it into big jar. The jar was full of the stuff. Repeated this process 2 more times with fresh isopropyl alcohol each time, 3rd time it was clear.


Performed drain/add a few gallons known good gas process on the tank, shaking the truck, letting it sit for an hour or more before draining. Repeated 4 times before it ran clear of this stuff. Also flushed the fuel valve, lines, filters, sediment bowl, carb multiple times.


Started the A, let it idle for 10 minutes, cranked up the idle setting and ran for 20 minutes, took it for a ride close to home for 30 minutes. Seems good, keeping my fingers crossed.


Have added a paper filter to the Sediment Bowl to keep this stuff out of the carb if it returns. Since this stuff made it all the way to the carb, am considering rigging a small piece of panty hose and make a filter, attaching it to pencil filter. Check it every so often.




Talked to a couple of auto mechanics in town, best we can figure is that insects (mosquitoes?) had gotten into the container and set up shop, this can also can happen to the spout so will be rigging a cap up to seal the spout. I do not have tank sealer, so that should not be an issue. With all the rain we have had here this year in Wisconsin, the mosquitoes have been horrendous - is a possibility. I know I had a ton of them in the garage this year. I am really hoping that I got it all.




Other things I've leaned
The gas supply in a properly functioning A with the motor off does not flow easily. If you empty the Sediment Bulb and put it back, it will not want to refill. You have added a big air bubble with the gas tank on one end, and the Carb float valve on the other end. No flow. I chased this non-problem for quite a while.


If I am correct, may explain when I ran run out of gas earlier this year, and added gas, had a hard time starting the A. You may want to open the carb drain plug to "prime" the fuel system. The line between the sediment bulb and the carb drained into the carb and was used, creating a big air pocket in the gas line. Enough gas dribbled into the float bowl stopping the flow with air left in the line. Finally started after using full choke for 15-30 seconds or so. My battery started to weaken before I figured out to use full choke, was concerned I would flood it.


#1 thing - Frequent proper cleaning of gas containers. Do not leave them open, put the cap back on as soon as you set it down. I have a tendency to leave them open so the filler neck drains and dries. Currently this has been up to an hour while I am mowing lawn.

[Jacksonlll]

If it does it again, hook up an external condenser and see if it helps. Quick, easy check.

[Roserock49]

I would also check that gas cap vent isn't plugged. This would result in a slow flow of gas.

[Patrick L.]

There should be a good fuel flow all the way to the carburetor is everything is as it should be.

To fill the sediment bowl/ rid it of air, just loosen the little nut to the fuel bowl to replace the air with fuel, then retighten.


The fuel line from the sediment bowl to carburetor should be slanted downhill the whole way.

The fuel cap vent needs to be clear which is a problem with these monsters sometimes.

Many folks install a new type fuel tank outlet which has a stand-off not allowing fuel/crap from the very bottom of the tank to be drawn out. Fuel tank contamination is a problem.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

There should be a good fuel flow all the way to the carburetor is everything is as it should be.

To fill the sediment bowl/ rid it of air, just loosen the little nut to the fuel bowl to replace the air with fuel, then retighten.


The fuel line from the sediment bowl to carburetor should be slanted downhill the whole way.

The fuel cap vent needs to be clear which is a problem with these monsters sometimes.

Many folks install a new type fuel tank outlet which has a stand-off not allowing fuel/crap from the very bottom of the tank to be drawn out. Fuel tank contamination is a problem.

Did check the Cap, learned this the hard way on motorcycles long ago .did not include everything I did, post was already too long.



I have yet to see the fuel shutoff you mention . Can you point me in the right direction? Tried to search for it a little, but must not be using the right search terms.


Thanks for the tips, trying hard to be knowledgeable.






Thanks

[100IH]

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Vacuum Cleaner in the tank? been posted so many times - very dangerous. Your comment " I have yet to see the fuel shutoff you mention". Patrick L did not mention that. How could that possibly be? Flushed and drained everything many times yet don't know where the shutoff is. I AM TOTALLY LOST HERE. Good luck.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Jacksonlll

If it does it again, hook up an external condenser and see if it helps. Quick, easy check.

plus 1

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by 100IH

Vacuum Cleaner in the tank? been posted so many times - very dangerous. Your comment " I have yet to see the fuel shutoff you mention". Patrick L did not mention that. How could that possibly be? Flushed and drained everything many times yet don't know where the shutoff is. I AM TOTALLY LOST HERE. Good luck.

I think he means that he has not see the shutoff valve with the stand pipe to let junk coming out of the tank collect, rather then go down into the carb. He has certainly seen the stock shutoff valve.

The other is a home-made setup with a T-fitting and a short piece of pipe below the outlet from the gas tank, so that there is a dead leg for rust and junk to settle down into. These fittings and a different style valve replace the original style shutoff valve.
.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by 100IH

Vacuum Cleaner in the tank? been posted so many times - very dangerous. Your comment " I have yet to see the fuel shutoff you mention". Patrick L did not mention that. How could that possibly be? Flushed and drained everything many times yet don't know where the shutoff is. I AM TOTALLY LOST HERE. Good luck.

Patrick L - Many folks install a new type fuel tank outlet which has a stand-off not allowing fuel/crap from the very bottom of the tank to be drawn out. Fuel tank contamination is a problem.

I took this as the fuel shutoff/petcock at the bottom of tank, perhaps am mistaken and is why I asked for further info.


Vacuuming the tank. I do understand fumes and a DC motor is dangerous. I drain the tank, take the petcock off, siphon remaining gas, allow to dry. Then run a gas leaf blower at low speed through the filler neck and out through the removed fuel shutoff to insure it is dry, and get rid of fumes as much as I can.. I have rigged up my shop-vac hose with a small very small diameter 4 ft. hose on the end, with a stiff bristle painter brush attached, tape that to a rod so it is stiff.


I do this outside, with a box fan running at high speed over the tank filler.


Anyway, yes it is possible I've just been lucky so far.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Jim/TX/GA

I think he means that he has not see the shutoff valve with the stand pipe to let junk coming out of the tank collect, rather then go down into the carb. He has certainly seen the stock shutoff valve.

The other is a home-made setup with a T-fitting and a short piece of pipe below the outlet from the gas tank, so that there is a dead leg for rust and junk to settle down into. These fittings and a different style valve replace the original style shutoff valve.
.

Thanks Jim,


I can see how my description is confusing. After thinking about this further and with your description of the mod, I do not think this method will work for the issue I had. The stuff is so light it stays suspended in the gas, it only settles after sitting undisturbed for a time. While the truck is running/moving it seems to stir back up and some actually can get through the stock filters/screens., does not stay settled on the bottom like rust/scale etc.


I am just theorizing what the stuff is, but the source seems to generated in the gas container, since that is where was found. The only other possibility is the ethanol free gas from the station is contaminated. Am looking at that now, cleaned out my containers again, this time with Seafoam, just got back from the gas station, will see if I find anything.


I am just so surprised that I appear to be the 1st to experience this.

[Patrick L.]

I think the number for the fuel tank 'stand-pipe' [ thanks for the terminology, I couldn't think of it] is A-9193-T and should be available from the 'A' vendors such as Bratton's, Snyder's, etc.

If I'm wrong someone will know and should post.

It's a fuel pick-up that contains a screen that 'stands' a bit off the bottom of the tank so the fuel line won't get full of crap.

In the end you should have a good steady flow of fuel at the carburetor inlet.

[shortyt]

I'm having the same type of problems. My 29 ran great! Parked it for a week now she doesn't want to idle without stalling. The only thing I did different was fill it up at a gas station directly at the pump (previous I just add from a gas can). Im thinking I loosened up something in tank with the pump. Running a Weber carb. I cleaned everything in the carb just need to check filter and electric pump etc.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

All is now good. Have run the A some over the past few days.


Shrtyt - hope you get your issue solved without the time/pain I had. You may still want to clean your can. later on once I suspected it was my gas can, I emptied my plastic gas can, put in a can of Seafoam shook the can every way for 5 minutes, and emptied it into a 2 liter clean/dry soda bottle. After letting the bottle sit for a while, looked like a half inch of water on the bottom with the Seafoam on top. This whole thing, above and this, flabbergasts me.


Patrick L - I think you are referencing a pencil filter that goes into the Shutoff and stands vertical into the tank, I do have that. It one of the filters that was clogging.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Just an afterthought: If anyone is dealing with rust flakes in their fuel system, DON'T stick a Cow Magnet on the gas line!!!! It'll attract the flakes & PLUG UP THE LINE!!!
Bill No No

[Ernie Vitucci]

Just a note to consider...Years ago an old guy in the gas station I worked in, heard me complain about junk in my Model A Carburetor and having to clean it out quite often. He told me to put a magnet into the gas line filter glass bowl about the size of a nickel. I did and it began to trap the very fine stuff coming out of my gas tank. I still do this with my current A which I have had since 2005 and the old girl runs well. I can easily see when I need to open the glass bowl and clean the trapped rust off of the magnet...Enjoy your day. Ernie in Arizona

[walkerlakeprinter]

What neat idea! Makes sense. Thanks!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

A Friend has a SEMI-FLOATING, plastic Fish, in his sediment bowl. He says, "It's a BOTTOM Feeder & eats the CRUD"!!----LOL
Bill Laffing

[shortyt]

Well I found my problem. My aftermarket header was hitting the tranny (39 Ford transmission) and wasn't allowing me to tighten the header manifold snug. Had to grind down the flange a bit and all is well.

[100IH]

The name of the gizmo that is eluding everyone is "dogleg" A search did'nt work for me though. Must not be in title of post. 30 pu, if something looks like water, it might be water ! It'll still smell like water though.

[d.]

try the search term DIRTY LEG, that's what I recall the item being called.