|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
10-27-2019, 09:04 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,855
|
Evolution of installing cylinder heads
The evolution of installing heads on a flathead is more complex, than a woman's mind. In the "Beginning". We slaped them on torqued them to 60/70 lbs and went racing. When we started using racing cam shafts and milled heads, we found that pistons hit the heads ar reva and the heads leaked, torque then to 80. Learning can be expensive. stripped blocks and Heli coils later?? It took awhile to realize that over torquing the heads was a bad idea, one shop used a torque plate for honing the SBC, so whynot the flatheads. Most of us used Jahnns pistons with .005/6" clearance ( Made from Lead???) Now we used .075/.100 piston clearance. But torquing the heads was still amistory. Back to 50 llbs. Problem solved.. So much for the learning curve, I have no idea who came up with all this?With the low RPM's of the street engines and the light Forged and Egge 3 ring pistons, we can tighten up the piston to head clearance.
THis doesn't address the long term installation of aluminum heads on a cast iron block. When I first started rebuilding Flatheads I began repairing used heads to reduce the price of the builds. I checked the fire ring of the heads, milled them flat. Bead blasted them and filled the corrosion areas with Devcon F and later JB weld. We had an aluminum spray sealant in the beginning, but later versions were just aluminum paint. Since then I use copper coat. However I don't think this will help the long term installation of these heads, but a new method maybe around the corner. Paint the heads with a coat of Latex paint. Install gasket with what ever sealant you want, and bolt the heads down with cadmium coated bolts (with hardened washers) . Torque to 45 lba for 3 or more heat cycles. Until there is no movement. You might wonder if this is enough?? I did. after the hydro engine made a run at over 60mph, a recheck of the head bolts gave little movement. The Evolution continues, tune in next year. Ol' Ron is online now Report Post |
10-27-2019, 09:23 AM | #2 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 21
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Ron, A question about re-torqueing; do you break the bolt loose, and re-torque to what ever pds you want,, or, do you just re-torque to what ever pds ?
Thanks, |
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
10-27-2019, 09:48 AM | #3 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,990
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Quote:
of re-torqueing.
__________________
"I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you". |
|
10-27-2019, 10:03 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lyman,ME.
Posts: 2,623
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
This is something I’ve wondered about....Thanks!....Mark
__________________
I'm thinkin' about crankin' My ragged ol' truck up and haulin' myself into town. Billy Joe Shaver |
10-27-2019, 10:45 AM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 78
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
You need to back em off first one at a time and then retorque em. Not just try to retorque em.
Harry |
10-27-2019, 11:48 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,855
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
|
10-30-2019, 09:09 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: middle of Iowa
Posts: 646
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
What are your thoughts on bolts vs. studs?
I've had problems with coolant weeping past the studs, so I use a lot of Stinky Brown Permatex on studs (basically gluing them into position). If bolts were used, the sealant would be disturbed on every retorque, right? More weeping. |
10-30-2019, 09:24 AM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 794
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Quote:
It never glued bolts/studs in position and never leaked after re-tightening. |
|
10-30-2019, 10:41 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,062
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
I use a Teflon based sealer on the coarse threads of the studs or bolts . . . from ARP.
|
10-30-2019, 11:21 AM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,990
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Quote:
And I suppose common sense would dictate that if one were to loosen them, he'd have to start the entire process afresh. And, perhaps ruin any chances of making a permanent and quality seal. Folks, do NOT loosen the nuts (bolts) prior to (re)torqueing.
__________________
"I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you". |
|
10-30-2019, 10:30 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,855
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
To seal the threads I use some stuff I had for steam pips. My dad was a plumber and he had this stuff so I used it. Never seems to harden either. Probably the same stuff they make today
|
10-30-2019, 11:51 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 782
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
I haven't dealt with this yet but, when I put my 21 stud engine back together, I had planned on using Teflon tape to seal the stud threads.
Are any reasons why I shouldn't use it?
__________________
Frank '35 Ford Model 51 '48 Ford F3 '54 Ford Tudor Mainline |
10-31-2019, 12:33 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 611
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Teflon tape is mostly kind of a lubricant so that new tapered pipe threads go together nice.
|
10-31-2019, 10:15 AM | #14 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 3,505
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Quote:
|
|
10-31-2019, 10:23 AM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,062
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Quote:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-9904 |
|
10-31-2019, 12:00 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 782
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
PTFE is Teflon but that stuff is kinda spendy @ $10 for 1.7 oz. A plumbing supply house, may have it, I'll have to look.
The Teflon tape, used to be spendy but, now is very cheap. It takes a minute to rap it in the threads but, you can put on, what ever thickness you want. It is a great sealer and the only way you can assure a leak free, pipe thread joint, on air lines.
__________________
Frank '35 Ford Model 51 '48 Ford F3 '54 Ford Tudor Mainline |
10-31-2019, 08:25 PM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,062
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Quote:
What matters is how well the studs/bolts are sealed in the wet deck! Just giving you Hell a bit . . . as I've learned that I have attempted to save money on the right things in my life . . . and spent WAY too much on the wrong things! LOL B&S |
|
10-31-2019, 08:39 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,303
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
A lot of us older guys are on a very tight budget. $9.00 saved here and there can make a big difference in how we approach our projects. I know that I am getting by only because I have squirreled away a lot of old parts that I could not even think of purchasing these days. You bet I will be concerned about some big time outfit charging $10 for 1.7 oz. of sealer, especially when if you look hard enough, you can find the same thing a lot cheaper someplace else.
I wish I was rich; I'm not. |
10-31-2019, 09:15 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,062
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Hey guys - not trying to be flippant with your money (or mine) . . . the only point was that we tend to worry about saving money on the wrong things. Not only in life, but in our flathead work. I know, a grand statement . . . but one I've had to come to terms with myself over the years. And - I'm not young - I hate to admit it, but I'm an "older guy".
Now I know I'm preaching here, but how many times have we seen folks (ourselves included) go 95% of the way through a difficult and time consuming job - spending a lot of money along the way - and then decide to scrimp/save at the very end? I've done this many times! It is almost like I was upset about the 95% of the money I'd already spent (probably 2X what I thought), only to NOT spend the last 5% wisely. I'm not trying to spend anybody's money here -- nor claim to have riches and lack of empathy. The only point is that we tend to worry about the costs that are the least significant at times . . . versus the costs/ramifications if we had not. I used to worry about costs of things like gasket sealers, assembly lube, oils, etc . . . when if I'd really thought about it, these are the last places I should be worried about spending a few percent more. I'd already spent the big money and spent the big time - so I try to buy the best products I can - and they cost so very little in the grand scheme of these dang car builds. Also, one hard lesson in life and business that I've learned is that I tend to not value my time enough. If I spend $20 more to save hours of time . . . if that worth it? Maybe - or maybe not - but at my 'young' age, seems that my time is the most valuable thing I don't have enough of. Okay, enough out of me . . . B&S |
11-01-2019, 12:30 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 782
|
Re: Evolution of installing cylinder heads
Dale,
The main thing about selecting things, is that you use common sense. For instance, if Teflon tape will seal a joint, air tight, then it will seal a water joint, especially if it's under high heat and pressure. I don't like using it but, I have to, if I want my air systems to not leak. Second, I haven't looked for it yet but, if it's a Teflon past, it's probably used for sealing pipe fitting, maybe even designed for that purpose and if so, can be purchased at a plumbing supply house for $3 or less.
__________________
Frank '35 Ford Model 51 '48 Ford F3 '54 Ford Tudor Mainline Last edited by frnkeore; 11-01-2019 at 11:52 AM. |
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|