The Ford Barn

white64 · 11-06-2014, 12:26 PM

As everyone knows, many ford frames are double walled because of the way the x-members also become innerframes front and back. Is there a way to get a rust prventaive between the two layers of frame, meaning the side rails and where they connect to the x-member... or is it nothing to be concerned with since this car is not going to see the evils of Maine roads in the winter.... salt, sand, and the various calcium formulas that "do not rust cars...". according to local and state officials (but that's a different topic for a different forum....)

Going to use rustoleum for the visable areas of the frame...

funrunr · 11-06-2014, 01:34 PM

Have you considered "E-coat" or having it powder coated?

Kube · 11-06-2014, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white64

As everyone knows, many ford frames are double walled because of the way the x-members also become innerframes front and back. Is there a way to get a rust prventaive between the two layers of frame, meaning the side rails and where they connect to the x-member... or is it nothing to be concerned with since this car is not going to see the evils of Maine roads in the winter.... salt, sand, and the various calcium formulas that "do not rust cars...". according to local and state officials (but that's a different topic for a different forum....)

Going to use rustoleum for the visable areas of the frame...

I'm with Funrunr on this one. Chances are this car will not be exposed to daily tortures of salt, etc. As such, if you sand blast the frame clean and either paint it or powder finish it, it will most likely serve you well for well, as long as you are able to use it.
Powder finishing is fairly reasonable and will last a LONG time while maintaining a great appearance. Rustoleum® will not hold up as well and will certainly not look as nice, especially in the long run.
regardless of the method you choose to refinish the frame, I don;t think the "layered" areas of the frame should be of any concern.

john worden · 11-06-2014, 04:37 PM

For all practical purposes you probably don't have to do anything with the hidden areas.
I use SEM Rust Seal for those areas however. It is thin enough to penetrate and coat the surfaces. You may have to spray at high pressure, or actually pour the product into the openings after tilting the frame to allow the product to flow into and allow the excess to drain out.
It's good to know all rusted areas have been addressed.

white64 · 11-06-2014, 06:41 PM

I've done searches here and on the HAMB, it seems like there are many opinions; Rustoleum, Powder coating, POR-15, epoxy primer and SEM products (not any particular order) seem to be the most popular. Was thinking about Rustoleum because of it's ease to repair scratches, digs, modifications etc...

So the best suggestion is to work it as best one can into the recesses and seams regardless of the product.

Would it be wise to use a rust converter in those areas and then coat with the chosen finish?

36coupe · 11-06-2014, 06:55 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

It sounds like you are not planning to sandblast.
If that is the case then you could clean the frame up best you can with say a wire cup wheel on a mini grinder. Here we have a product called Rust converter by Dominion, (phosphoric acid) that you could spray on and wipe off and dry. That does a pretty good job neutralizing iron oxide.
I would buy a cheap epoxy black primer about 40/gal, spray that, then top coat with a cheap enamel like rust oleum or maybe John Deer blitz black satin.
A lot of guys skip the epoxy step and use just the JD blitz black about 20/gal from your JD dealer. A satin finish hides the little imperfections.
Once it is dry spray fluid film in the rust prone areas and I think you will be happy.

john worden · 11-06-2014, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white64

I've done searches hare and on the HAMB, it seems like there are many opinions; Rustoleum, Powder coating, POR-15, epoxy primer and SEM products (not any particular order) seem to be the most popular. Was thinking about Rustoleum because of it's ease to repair scratches, digs, modifications etc...

So the best suggestion is to work it as best one can into the recesses and seams regardless of the product.

Would it be wise to use a rust converter in those areas and then coat with the chosen finish?

SEM RUST MORT rust converter requires washing with water and drying thoroughly. I think most converters require that as well. That's why I don't use it or recommend it for use in hidden areas. I've used a lot of it otherwise. SEM RUST SEAL is applied, let dry and done. I'm not a fan of powder coating auto parts.

CharlieLed · 11-07-2014, 09:07 PM

I use a couple of different products, Rust Seal and Chassis Saver, both are similar to POR15 but a lot less $$$. I was sealing up some hard to reach places around the roof of a 56 F100 cab and was surprised to see how well these products seeped into the tight areas in the pinch welds. The black in the following pics is the rust encapsulating paint oozing through seams that I thought were tight...

TomT/Williamsburg · 11-08-2014, 01:22 PM

Whatever way you decide, here's what I did to get between the layers of frame rails as best I could. After power washing my frames I have placed them strapped to a moving dolly on their long end and soaked them in the hard to reach and unseen areas that I could get to, then flipped the frame to its other long end and did the same. Has worked very well for me and, for the record, I used rustoleum rusty metal primer and then top coated with rustoleum satin flat black.

white64 · 11-10-2014, 07:43 AM

Tom, did you thin the rusty primer with acetone to get it to promote the seep/capillary attraction between the layers, or was the primer thin enough as it was to seep deep enough (not that anyone can really tell...)?

My'31 coupe has rusty primer and black semi-gloss rustoleum on the frame, nicks scratches are easy to repair and after two years, it's holding up very well.

Capn John · 11-10-2014, 12:03 PM

Take a look at this paint! I'm doing a JEEP and some '32 FORDs and it's great so far!!!

http://www.masterseriescoatings.com/index/

john worden · 11-10-2014, 03:54 PM

Remember that primer is designed to promote adhesion of paint over good metal etc. Primer over rust and or compromised metal is better than nothing but why not use something designed to deal with rust first?

11-06-2014, 12:26 PM	#1
white64 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pittston , MAine Posts: 222	'40 frame painting question.. As everyone knows, many ford frames are double walled because of the way the x-members also become innerframes front and back. Is there a way to get a rust prventaive between the two layers of frame, meaning the side rails and where they connect to the x-member... or is it nothing to be concerned with since this car is not going to see the evils of Maine roads in the winter.... salt, sand, and the various calcium formulas that "do not rust cars...". according to local and state officials (but that's a different topic for a different forum....) Going to use rustoleum for the visable areas of the frame...

11-06-2014, 01:34 PM	#2
funrunr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Belleville,MI Posts: 1,427	Re: '40 frame painting question.. Have you considered "E-coat" or having it powder coated? __________________ Thank God this is only a hobby!

11-06-2014, 04:37 PM	#4
john worden Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: central Iowa Posts: 484	Re: '40 frame painting question.. For all practical purposes you probably don't have to do anything with the hidden areas. I use SEM Rust Seal for those areas however. It is thin enough to penetrate and coat the surfaces. You may have to spray at high pressure, or actually pour the product into the openings after tilting the frame to allow the product to flow into and allow the excess to drain out. It's good to know all rusted areas have been addressed. __________________ Louvering, bias ply tire-truing, metal shaping and forming, lathe and mill work, member shop HAGERTY Ins. expert repair network. High quality paint work in Iowa.

11-06-2014, 06:41 PM	#5
white64 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pittston , MAine Posts: 222	Re: '40 frame painting question.. I've done searches here and on the HAMB, it seems like there are many opinions; Rustoleum, Powder coating, POR-15, epoxy primer and SEM products (not any particular order) seem to be the most popular. Was thinking about Rustoleum because of it's ease to repair scratches, digs, modifications etc... So the best suggestion is to work it as best one can into the recesses and seams regardless of the product. Would it be wise to use a rust converter in those areas and then coat with the chosen finish? Last edited by white64; 11-06-2014 at 09:57 PM.

11-06-2014, 06:55 PM	#6
36coupe Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Eastcoast Posts: 864	Re: '40 frame painting question.. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) It sounds like you are not planning to sandblast. If that is the case then you could clean the frame up best you can with say a wire cup wheel on a mini grinder. Here we have a product called Rust converter by Dominion, (phosphoric acid) that you could spray on and wipe off and dry. That does a pretty good job neutralizing iron oxide. I would buy a cheap epoxy black primer about 40/gal, spray that, then top coat with a cheap enamel like rust oleum or maybe John Deer blitz black satin. A lot of guys skip the epoxy step and use just the JD blitz black about 20/gal from your JD dealer. A satin finish hides the little imperfections. Once it is dry spray fluid film in the rust prone areas and I think you will be happy.

11-08-2014, 01:22 PM	#9
TomT/Williamsburg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 2,654	Re: '40 frame painting question.. Whatever way you decide, here's what I did to get between the layers of frame rails as best I could. After power washing my frames I have placed them strapped to a moving dolly on their long end and soaked them in the hard to reach and unseen areas that I could get to, then flipped the frame to its other long end and did the same. Has worked very well for me and, for the record, I used rustoleum rusty metal primer and then top coated with rustoleum satin flat black.

11-10-2014, 07:43 AM	#10
white64 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pittston , MAine Posts: 222	Re: '40 frame painting question.. Tom, did you thin the rusty primer with acetone to get it to promote the seep/capillary attraction between the layers, or was the primer thin enough as it was to seep deep enough (not that anyone can really tell...)? My'31 coupe has rusty primer and black semi-gloss rustoleum on the frame, nicks scratches are easy to repair and after two years, it's holding up very well.

11-10-2014, 12:03 PM	#11
Capn John Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: BIRTHPLACE OF SPEED, FLORIDA Posts: 531	Re: '40 frame painting question.. Take a look at this paint! I'm doing a JEEP and some '32 FORDs and it's great so far!!! http://www.masterseriescoatings.com/index/

11-10-2014, 03:54 PM	#12
john worden Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: central Iowa Posts: 484	Re: '40 frame painting question.. Remember that primer is designed to promote adhesion of paint over good metal etc. Primer over rust and or compromised metal is better than nothing but why not use something designed to deal with rust first? __________________ Louvering, bias ply tire-truing, metal shaping and forming, lathe and mill work, member shop HAGERTY Ins. expert repair network. High quality paint work in Iowa.