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Old 07-16-2017, 07:15 PM   #1
leon bee
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Default 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

So my reading indicates that about maybe 51 they quit with hardened valve seat inserts for either exhaust or intake. Then about the next year did away with the other one. After that was there just no insert at all? And how did that work out?

Trying to learn this stuff because I'm getting the flathead bug, but I think I better be looking for another block. If these last engines had no inserts, how do they do with today's fuel? And another question would be, if one of these blocks had had multiple valve grinding jobs, would the seat then be receded and need seat inserts? And is that a big job? Thanks a lot for sharing any wisdom!

Last edited by leon bee; 07-16-2017 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 07-16-2017, 08:07 PM   #2
alanwoodieman
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

if it is a good block, which are getting harder to find. a good machine shop can put in valve seats and "used up" valve seats can be replaced . I got the flathead bug a lot of years ago and have been driving/building and having fun for over 45 years!!
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Old 07-16-2017, 08:22 PM   #3
Henry Floored
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

Leon don't be too scared of a good block with integral valve seats. Ford I believe pioneered that change because those exhaust seats ran much cooler than seat inserts.

It WAS NOT a move to cheapen the engine as many people have wrongly concluded.

Flathead Fords don't run tons of spring pressure so hardened seat inserts are not ass necessary as they would be on an OHV engine.
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Old 07-16-2017, 08:55 PM   #4
jake197000
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

if the seats were in good shape after grinding i wouldnt worry too much.if there sunk a bit you could use 1.6 inch valves too.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:05 PM   #5
petehoovie
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

Didn't Ford justify the elimination of the hardened seats by introducing rotating valves?....
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

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The 53 Ford P.U.had both In.&ex.seats I have 2 of them if inst.Cliff.
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:00 PM   #7
fordwife
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

It was a bad idea in my opinion. I've seen a lot of 8BA engines without inserts crack a valve seat, especially on trucks. Sometimes it would go right down the cylinder wall, especially on exhaust valves. many rebuilders will put in seats, if the engine doesn't have them.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:09 AM   #8
Ol' Ron
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

The first 8BA in 48 had both the intake and exhaust seats, by 49 the intake didn't have them. In mid 51 the exhaust seat was removed and replaced bu\y an induction hardened one and the valve rotators. I try to use rotators on all my builds with cams with 350 or less cam lift. However when running a higher lift cam I have hardened seats installed in the exhaust only
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:01 AM   #9
Ross F-1
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

My truck has an EAB, 52 - 53, and came to me with no hardened seats and rotators. I had it rebuilt in '13, drove it locally for 6 months, then took it on a road trip. Running 2300 - 2400 RPM and 55 - 60 mph, in 95 - 100 deg weather on corn gas, my seats started receding within 700 miles. I didn't realize that was the problem, I thought I was vapor locking due to the heat. It would not idle at all. When I got home from the trip (3500 miles), it was running on perhaps 4 cylinders.

When I checked the clearances, I found four exhausts were at -0- cold! That means the seats receded .017 - .019". Some intakes had also receded .004 - .005".

I had hardened seats installed. 9 months later I made the same trip under the same conditions, had no changes at all in clearances, and have made two more trips since without incident.

Do you need hardened seats? If you want to work the engine, yes. Especially pushing a barn door thru the air, like with a truck. If you are driving around town and in parades, probably not.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

The cost of installing valve seats in comparsion with the rest of the parts going into a flathead isnīt to bad...they are std parts...so why not do it ??
And while at it a 3 angle job and a bowl profiler down the intake...
If the valve sinks into the seat it may have had a to narrow seat width from start ??
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:18 AM   #11
Ol' Ron
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

Ross. Your experience is how we learn. I've built a few engines and always worried about. Fortunately, that's never happened to me. I've always used Hardened exhaust seats. But I like the late 51-53 blocks because i can do more to their ports. However I always use only 50 lbs of valve spring pressure. One of my last 276, L-100 engines has passed the 50 k miles test. So far so good.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: 8BA.....When They Eliminated the Hardened Seats?

Here's an off the wall question : Did Mercury go to rotating valves and no seat inserts the same time Ford did? At first blush, I would think so, but after seeing the difference in oil filters and fittings, I have to wonder.
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