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12-02-2015, 03:21 PM | #1 |
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Powerhouse Generator identification?
I need your help identifying which Powerhouse generator that I have. I think mine is a P3. The cutout is mounted on top. Mine has three brushes but has pockets for five. Been sitting for over fifty years but I'd like to get it up and running. Do the two empty pockets go to ground? How would I know if the additional brushes are needed in the three brush generator? Did the three brush models have the pockets even if they weren't used? Will a new set of brushes for a five brush generator work in the three brush generator? Are they the same size? Like to bench test it without frying it...
Any help or input is appreciated. Goldfinch28 |
12-02-2015, 03:33 PM | #2 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
If it has the pockets for 5 brushes then it takes a brush in all 5. There are 2 different brush sizes, 4 of one and one of the other. The three brush takes two different sizes of brushes also although they are different from the five brush. According to previous info on FB the amp draw of the field coils is different for the three brush. I have not figured out the best way to check the ones I have. I am sure Tom W will have more to add. Rod
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12-02-2015, 03:34 PM | #3 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Louie, hopefully Tom W will chime in on this for you. He's da-man when it comes to all things Model A electrical.
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12-02-2015, 06:09 PM | #4 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Yes Thomas where are you......
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12-02-2015, 06:50 PM | #5 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
The brush holder, location of the cutout, type of adjusting tension arm, if there is one, and mounting bracket, is what makes the difference of the 5 Brush Power House. The 3 brush came out later in 1928.
Ron |
12-03-2015, 04:50 PM | #6 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
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Thanks for your input. FYI. Build date of my Special Coupe was Sept 14, 1928. I think this was the original generator on my A. Pic 1 of 4 |
12-03-2015, 04:51 PM | #7 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Pic 2 of 4
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12-03-2015, 04:53 PM | #8 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Pic 3 of 4
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12-03-2015, 04:54 PM | #9 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Pic 4 of 4
Thanks! |
12-03-2015, 05:40 PM | #10 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Here is an old post with possibly some useful info. Rod
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ght=powerhouse
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12-03-2015, 11:21 PM | #11 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
I would install the missing brushes, and as Rod said, it takes only the 5 brush set. Your generator is correct for 1928 Model A's, but will work for all years.
Do you have the tension strap and special bolt for mounting the strap? Connect a 6 volt charger to the field windings to check them. Connect the + to the case, slip paper under the adjustable brush and connect the - to that brush wire. The battery charger should show about 1 1/2 amps draw for the 5 brush powerhouse. A 3 brush powerhouse has a few feet less wire, and should show about a 2 amp draw. Your commutator is nice and thick, indicating someone hasn't foolishly cut away good material. You are missing the two ground brushes, but could use one of the power brushes in the ground holder. Since it was made for 5 brushes, I like to use 5 brushes. Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 12-03-2015 at 11:27 PM. |
12-04-2015, 12:38 PM | #12 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
I have a few extra original sets of brushes for 5 brush Power House generators. Make offer including shipping, PM me.
Also noticed your 5 brush charge adjustment is set a highest output. Moving the adjustment in the direction of rotation increases charge rate, opposite decreases charge rate. I have seen a 20-20 Ammeter arm indicator break off when engine starts with adjustment at high rate of charge I have one 5 brush that will put out 28 amps om high setting. Ron |
12-04-2015, 04:32 PM | #13 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
I'm getting the tension arm, special bolt and a whole set of 5 brushes. Now I have another question as I continue down the path. Is this wear on the armature or is this as manufactured? If wear, should this be repaired/machined out to one consistent dimension? I am replacing the bearings while it is apart. Any other tips while I'm in here? I am planning to do the previously mentioned bench testing and will relay the results. Thanks for all the help!
With pic 1 of 2 |
12-04-2015, 04:34 PM | #14 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Pic 2 of 2. Back side of armature. FYI only.
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12-04-2015, 04:37 PM | #15 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Well so much for the commutator being nice and thick.
Bob |
12-04-2015, 04:39 PM | #16 | |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Quote:
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12-04-2015, 04:40 PM | #17 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Definately looks really worn. Rod
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12-04-2015, 05:12 PM | #18 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Your Armature needs to be turned smooth. You can cut between the segments using a fine hack saw blade; break the blade to make a fine point. With the present condition of your armature it will wear out new brushes and probable require more amps to motor the generator. I also like to use new sealed bearings instead of the old type bearings; it keeps the inside, once cleaned up, free of grease.
Ron |
12-04-2015, 05:56 PM | #19 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Thanks! I'll head that direction and post the results.
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12-04-2015, 08:05 PM | #20 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
That's one of the worst cases of a well worn commutator I've seen. Do you have a lathe to trim it level? You need a sharp bit to trim the copper without messing it up. After it's trimmed I use crocus to smooth the commutator, then use an Atlas hobby saw to undercut the insulation between the segments about .010" to .020" depth.
With new brushes and a smooth commutator that should last many years. Set the output to only an amp or two for most daytime driving. Short drives with a lot of starts will take more amps. |
12-05-2015, 06:11 PM | #21 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
I think I can do it with an electric drill turning it and a file. Then smooth it down with emery cloth.
Does anyone know why they switched from the power house? Too much cost? Just curious at this point as the PH sure seems well built and machined. |
12-05-2015, 07:58 PM | #22 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
The powerhouse is my favorite generator and is very well built as well as easy to work on. I'm sure it was a cost thing that made Ford switch to the tube style generator.
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12-10-2015, 05:47 PM | #23 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Here is a pic of the commutator after turning it down via the drill and file method. Looks decent. New brushes should be here in a few days. Will send more pics before final assembly/installation.
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12-10-2015, 07:24 PM | #24 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
I can't tell from the pictures, but does the PowerHouse have 'oil holes' for the bearings/bushings - like there are for the long gens?? If not, how are they lubricated?
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12-10-2015, 09:01 PM | #25 |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
You did good on removing the wear steps in the commutator. I would use some fine crocus cloth to polish it even more though.
No oil holes. The bearings are packed with grease and will stay well lubed for many years. The armature bolt should be a special stepped bolt, though your grade 8 bolt may do the job as long as the armature runs true. |
12-11-2015, 12:56 AM | #26 | |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
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Quote:
I also show pictures of a couple armatures that I polished. Unfortunately someone turned a lot of copper off the powerhouse commutator, but I could still polish it and use it. The smoother the commutator is, the longer the brushes will last. |
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12-11-2015, 10:28 AM | #27 | |
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Re: Powerhouse Generator identification?
Quote:
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