The Ford Barn

VeryTangled · 05-29-2021, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I'd suggest getting those original cable brakes working good and leave it original.

JM 35 is a good one for knowing how these systems were built to work and how to make them work again.

I speculate fixing what you have is less headache than switching.

Vendors here on the 'Barn will be able to help with real ford parts.

Rodrelic · 05-30-2021, 07:46 PM

All I can think of is the western NY weather and salted roads, parking brake was the common obstacle to inspection. I cannot imagine cable brakes working well back in the day, even without salt.
I have acquired the cable brake parts but never considered trying them even for a good weather car. That said every year my brakes hydraulic brakes are tight and have to work at making them loose in the spring before use. Exercise makes it all smooth out.

Tinker · 05-30-2021, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodrelic

All I can think of is the western NY weather and salted roads, parking brake was the common obstacle to inspection. I cannot imagine cable brakes working well back in the day, even without salt.
I have acquired the cable brake parts but never considered trying them even for a good weather car. That said every year my brakes hydraulic brakes are tight and have to work at making them loose in the spring before use. Exercise makes it all smooth out.

I'm guessing 99% of us are not getting up at 6:30am in January to warm up a flathead to go to work. Even no matter the climate.

Seems like just a naysayer post without experience. Exercise makes it all smooth out I guess..... Salt rusts everything.

bbrocksr · 05-30-2021, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

I'm guessing 99% of us are not getting up at 6:30am in January to warm up a flathead to go to work. Even no matter the climate.

Seems like just a naysayer post without experience. Exercise makes it all smooth out I guess..... Salt rusts everything.

What's your experience with cable brake Fords? My first V8 was a 37 Ford coupe with cable brakes. Rear cables were rusted solid. My Dad, a mechanic all his life wouldn't let me drive it until I put Hydraulics on it. That was my first Hydraulic brake conversion at 14 years old working in my dads shop.
I've done a lot of them since and now 69 years later I just finished converting my 36 pickup, Works great.
Bill

Tinker · 05-30-2021, 10:41 PM

Like I mentioned my 38 before and after.

Ran a little model A with mechanical rods. Ran great. Everyone has a different experience, do what you need.

But like I mentioned it looks like a well maintained car. Maybe it's not all rusted to sh!t.

Will D · 05-30-2021, 11:10 PM

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I've got a '38 fordor with stock cable brakes. They work great, never had any issues. Adjust them right and your good to go or stop.

ford38v8 · 05-30-2021, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

What's your experience with cable brake Fords? My first V8 was a 37 Ford coupe with cable brakes. Rear cables were rusted solid. My Dad, a mechanic all his life wouldn't let me drive it until I put Hydraulics on it. That was my first Hydraulic brake conversion at 14 years old working in my dads shop.
I've done a lot of them since and now 69 years later I just finished converting my 36 pickup, Works great.
Bill

Well, it sounds like your only cable brake experience was a shrug of your shoulders as you removed them to obey your father. Many of us have known both mechanical and juice brakes, and do speak with experience. Mine has been a positive experience with cables, but with numerous memories of juice brake failures.

Tinker · 05-30-2021, 11:24 PM

Yikes. I respect all opinions. All good. To each their own. I try to follow threads throughout, not just the last thing posted.

bbrocksr · 05-30-2021, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Well, it sounds like your only cable brake experience was a shrug of your shoulders as you removed them to obey your father. Many of us have known both mechanical and juice brakes, and do speak with experience. Mine has been a positive experience with cables, but with numerous memories of juice brake failures.

I have been a mechanic and worked in shops and Ford dealers since I was 14 years old.That's about 69 years experience. I have a lot of experience freeing up and changing frozen brake cables. Why do you think ford only used them for two years?
And where did you get your experience?
Bill

Tinker · 05-30-2021, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

I have been a mechanic and worked in shops and Ford dealers since I was 14 years old.That's about 69 years experience. I have a lot of experience freeing up and changing frozen brake cables. Why do you think ford only used them for two years?
And where did you get your experience?
Bill

Bill, ford used mechanical brakes longer then 2 years. Everything before 1939. Cable 32 up.

Bless you. I hope you have a nice day tomorrow.

bbrocksr · 05-30-2021, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

Bill, ford used mechanical brakes longer then 2 years. Everything before 1939. Cable 32 up.

Bless you. I hope you have a nice day tomorrow.

Tinker, I said cable brakes 37 & 38,

Rods through 36, cable 37 &38, hydraulic 39 & up.

Same to you Tinker.
Bill

Tinker · 05-31-2021, 12:13 AM

All good. But it would be hard to say every well running car "had" to convert because. We should just put radial tires, disc brakes, and a sbc in too.

bbrocksr · 05-31-2021, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

All good. But it would be hard to say every well running car "had" to convert because. We should just put radial tires, disc brakes, and a sbc in too.

You're right, Every body is entitled to their opinion, It's their car they can do what they want. If they ask for advice you should give it to them and not have to be put down for it.

Bill

Tinker · 05-31-2021, 12:36 AM

Sounds good. What is the point of it all in restoring a vehicle if every time we just upgrade it to the newer thing. Opinion or option. Have a good night Bill. I respect your opinion.

.

ford38v8 · 05-31-2021, 02:54 AM

Strong opinions on the subject, which is very understandable as there are as many horror stories as there are success stories on both cable and juice. Old Henry was forced to give in and go hydraulic to stay competitive in the marketplace, but had he not refused to pay license fees for the Bendix system, he might have been able to prove the advantages of cables. The floaters for '37-'38 cables do just that, blending the Bendix with the cables, the best of both systems.

Every system needs maintenance, and fortunately for us today, there are superior lubrication products available that prevent cables from freezing up almost indefinitely. As for hydraulics, moisture attracted to the juice means rust and leaks, so the cure for that is usually silicone fluid, so with more research than heresay, a guy can make his own informed decision.

Fred A · 06-03-2021, 05:53 PM

In 1964 my dad was out of town working. A perfect opportunity for me to buy a '40 coupe without my dad's supervision. Upon my dad's return, he inspected the acquisition and instructed me to park it until I could get some Lincoln/Bendix brakes all around. Luckily '41 Lincolns were still abundant in the junk yards. Not an absolute bolt on, but after some minor fitting to the '40 front spindles and some custom parking brake cables and some smaller rear wheel cylinders, I had the best brakes available at that time. I have not had the problems with rust and other exaggerations blamed on hydraulic brakes. Those tales have a core of truth but are presented as a scare story to make a point. I have owned a '38 and the cable brakes were not obviously poor but compared to the performance of the Bendix designs, they are a great novelty. It reminds me of driving a crash-box Model A and enjoying the challenge of a smooth shift. I might enjoy the novelty of the cable brakes. In the brutality of LA traffic, that novelty would wear thin very quickly. My current '40 project has been fitted with real Bendix brakes largely as nostalgia. Ford/Lockheed brakes are probably OK but I can afford my preferences. Have Fun: Fred A

Ford Freak · 06-03-2021, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

All good. But it would be hard to say every well running car "had" to convert because. We should just put radial tires, disc brakes, and a sbc in too.

Well, I have radial tires on my coupe, and I don't have a problem w/disc brakes on vintage Ford's. But, the sbc is where I draw the line. That is a mortal sin! lol
That will never happen to any of my Ford's-not as long as I own them!- F F

blucar · 06-05-2021, 12:32 PM

When I purchased my '36 coupe in 1952 from the original owner the odometer showed 51k and it was dead stock. The original owner had purchased a new '52 Ford and had intentions of selling the '36 to a junk yard, mainly because of the mechanical brakes.
Think about this: All American vehicles built from 1940 on have hydraulic brakes. Is this because someone in the government owned stock in the hydraulic brake company's or was it for safety reasons?
In my case, I told the owner of the '36 that I would convert the brakes on the '36 to hydraulic using a '41 as the supply for parts, he sold me the '36 for $125.
I lived in Idaho at the time, traffic was light and the car stopped very well. In 1956 I moved to Los Angeles, CA, the '36 was my daily transportation to and from work, which on some days required a commute of over a hundred miles. In 1962 I did some major work on the '36, one of which was converting the brakes to '42-48 with '39 drums and the stock wheels. The later model brakes were a big improvement over the '39-41 style.
In reality, the original Ford mechanical brakes did a good job, however, that was 'then' when traffic was light and 45 mph was the normal highway speed.
Traffic now almost travels at the speed of light, residential speeds are very commonly 40 mph or higher, traffic conditions can change in the wink of an eye. I changed the brakes and suspension on my '39 convertible coupe to disk and rack-pinion, during the nine years I have had the car operational I have had two occasions when I had to do a panic stop because of some jerk flying through traffic on a residential street. My modern brakes and suspension help me avoid a major accident.

36coupe · 06-05-2021, 04:06 PM

I have the original mechanic brakes on my 38. I’m told that mechanical brakes need to have the softer woven brake shoes material to work best. The shoes look like new when I got the car six years ago

VeryTangled · 06-05-2021, 04:13 PM

Mech brakes never puke or need bleeding or seals/fluid replaced. Let it sit 20 years and that's still true.

05-30-2021, 07:46 PM	#22
Rodrelic Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Florida panhandle Posts: 194	Re: Cosidering juice brakes All I can think of is the western NY weather and salted roads, parking brake was the common obstacle to inspection. I cannot imagine cable brakes working well back in the day, even without salt. I have acquired the cable brake parts but never considered trying them even for a good weather car. That said every year my brakes hydraulic brakes are tight and have to work at making them loose in the spring before use. Exercise makes it all smooth out.

05-30-2021, 11:10 PM	#26
Will D Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: BC Canada Posts: 573	Re: Cosidering juice brakes Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I've got a '38 fordor with stock cable brakes. They work great, never had any issues. Adjust them right and your good to go or stop. __________________ Sometimes, ingenuity gets in the way of sense and sanity.

05-30-2021, 11:24 PM	#28
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Cosidering juice brakes Yikes. I respect all opinions. All good. To each their own. I try to follow threads throughout, not just the last thing posted. Last edited by Tinker; 06-01-2021 at 10:17 PM.

05-31-2021, 12:13 AM	#32
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Cosidering juice brakes All good. But it would be hard to say every well running car "had" to convert because. We should just put radial tires, disc brakes, and a sbc in too. Last edited by Tinker; 05-31-2021 at 12:24 AM.

05-31-2021, 12:36 AM	#34
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Cosidering juice brakes Sounds good. What is the point of it all in restoring a vehicle if every time we just upgrade it to the newer thing. Opinion or option. Have a good night Bill. I respect your opinion. . Last edited by Tinker; 05-31-2021 at 01:24 AM.

05-31-2021, 02:54 AM	#35
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,635	Re: Cosidering juice brakes Strong opinions on the subject, which is very understandable as there are as many horror stories as there are success stories on both cable and juice. Old Henry was forced to give in and go hydraulic to stay competitive in the marketplace, but had he not refused to pay license fees for the Bendix system, he might have been able to prove the advantages of cables. The floaters for '37-'38 cables do just that, blending the Bendix with the cables, the best of both systems. Every system needs maintenance, and fortunately for us today, there are superior lubrication products available that prevent cables from freezing up almost indefinitely. As for hydraulics, moisture attracted to the juice means rust and leaks, so the cure for that is usually silicone fluid, so with more research than heresay, a guy can make his own informed decision. __________________ Alan

06-03-2021, 05:53 PM	#36
Fred A Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Encino California, near Burbank Posts: 935	Re: Cosidering juice brakes In 1964 my dad was out of town working. A perfect opportunity for me to buy a '40 coupe without my dad's supervision. Upon my dad's return, he inspected the acquisition and instructed me to park it until I could get some Lincoln/Bendix brakes all around. Luckily '41 Lincolns were still abundant in the junk yards. Not an absolute bolt on, but after some minor fitting to the '40 front spindles and some custom parking brake cables and some smaller rear wheel cylinders, I had the best brakes available at that time. I have not had the problems with rust and other exaggerations blamed on hydraulic brakes. Those tales have a core of truth but are presented as a scare story to make a point. I have owned a '38 and the cable brakes were not obviously poor but compared to the performance of the Bendix designs, they are a great novelty. It reminds me of driving a crash-box Model A and enjoying the challenge of a smooth shift. I might enjoy the novelty of the cable brakes. In the brutality of LA traffic, that novelty would wear thin very quickly. My current '40 project has been fitted with real Bendix brakes largely as nostalgia. Ford/Lockheed brakes are probably OK but I can afford my preferences. Have Fun: Fred A

06-05-2021, 12:32 PM	#38
blucar Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 2,464	Re: Cosidering juice brakes When I purchased my '36 coupe in 1952 from the original owner the odometer showed 51k and it was dead stock. The original owner had purchased a new '52 Ford and had intentions of selling the '36 to a junk yard, mainly because of the mechanical brakes. Think about this: All American vehicles built from 1940 on have hydraulic brakes. Is this because someone in the government owned stock in the hydraulic brake company's or was it for safety reasons? In my case, I told the owner of the '36 that I would convert the brakes on the '36 to hydraulic using a '41 as the supply for parts, he sold me the '36 for $125. I lived in Idaho at the time, traffic was light and the car stopped very well. In 1956 I moved to Los Angeles, CA, the '36 was my daily transportation to and from work, which on some days required a commute of over a hundred miles. In 1962 I did some major work on the '36, one of which was converting the brakes to '42-48 with '39 drums and the stock wheels. The later model brakes were a big improvement over the '39-41 style. In reality, the original Ford mechanical brakes did a good job, however, that was 'then' when traffic was light and 45 mph was the normal highway speed. Traffic now almost travels at the speed of light, residential speeds are very commonly 40 mph or higher, traffic conditions can change in the wink of an eye. I changed the brakes and suspension on my '39 convertible coupe to disk and rack-pinion, during the nine years I have had the car operational I have had two occasions when I had to do a panic stop because of some jerk flying through traffic on a residential street. My modern brakes and suspension help me avoid a major accident. __________________ Bill.... 36 5 win cpe

06-05-2021, 04:06 PM	#39
36coupe Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Eastcoast Posts: 863	Re: Cosidering juice brakes I have the original mechanic brakes on my 38. I’m told that mechanical brakes need to have the softer woven brake shoes material to work best. The shoes look like new when I got the car six years ago

06-05-2021, 04:13 PM	#40
VeryTangled Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: (Not far enough...) Outside of DC Posts: 3,387	Re: Cosidering juice brakes Mech brakes never puke or need bleeding or seals/fluid replaced. Let it sit 20 years and that's still true. __________________ -Jeff H Have you thought about supporting the Early Ford V-8 Foundation Museum? Last edited by VeryTangled; 06-05-2021 at 05:36 PM.