03-14-2023, 06:08 PM | #1 |
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merc cam price
guess i should have done this 1st, what is a good price for a good 8cm cam? i found one for $150.
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03-14-2023, 06:45 PM | #2 |
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Re: merc cam price
Seems high to me. I would think $50-ish
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03-14-2023, 07:01 PM | #3 |
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Re: merc cam price
Tim has it. Used $50 to include shipping.
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03-14-2023, 07:07 PM | #4 |
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Re: merc cam price
thanks guys, kinda where i was at.
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03-14-2023, 07:24 PM | #5 |
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Re: merc cam price
New or used? After seeing the price of aftermarket and reground cams (which both should have adjustable lifters) these days, I wouldn't be surprised to see NOS cams (especially an 8CM) go for significant money.
Things are very different now than they were even 5 years ago. New Offenhauser heads (if you can even find them), go for $1800. |
03-14-2023, 08:23 PM | #6 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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$150 for a CHEAP stock regrind. $200 for a good STOCK regrind. Any NOS core should be reground at this point. There is NO preservative in existance that could keep it's surfaces good for this long except a full vacuum chamber and think of the cost to have operated a vacuum chamber since 1953. A lobe surface that appears good to the naked eye will easily be rejected under a microscope. It is far cheaper to use orginal steel lifters than adjustables. They are far better quality, not to mention they make a far superior finished product. |
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03-14-2023, 08:29 PM | #7 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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03-14-2023, 09:27 PM | #8 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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Now Pete, since YOU brought it up, I'm gonna let you show us just how dumb I really am. Please help me understand how a 70-year-old, NOS cam core is going to be "all messed-up" looking at it under a scope, whereas an ORIGINAL (70-year-old) steel lifter is going to be of better quality than an adjustable? How zat work? Coop . |
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03-14-2023, 09:41 PM | #9 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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And how do you control valve clearance then? When a cam is reground, you're going to lose material. Granted, maybe just a few thousandths, but you are still opening up the clearance. Do you sink the valves (not good)? Do you buy new valves and grind to proper clearance (not cheaper, and labor intensive)? I'm genuinely asking here, not trying to poke. |
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03-14-2023, 09:54 PM | #10 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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03-14-2023, 10:20 PM | #11 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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Comparing an old NOS cam lobe oxidized surface to a freshly ground one it very obvious the oxidized one is rougher. The mountains and valleys are still about the same height on both but the old ones are more random and rougher. As to the lifters, the original steel lifters are better for several of reasons. 1 - They are much lighter than cast iron. 2 - They are much stronger than cast iron. 3 - They are faster and easier to install. 4 - NO MANUFACTURER OF ADJUSTABLE LIFTERS HAS YET TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO 100% ASSURE THE SCREWS WON'T COME LOOSE. Coop, I have to comment on your statement about "dumb". You just lacked info on the subject. Same as I have very little info on round motors although I love to hear them run. I think you are one of the most knowledgeable people on here. |
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03-14-2023, 11:11 PM | #12 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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Hey, I LOVE round motors, too! So here's one for you. WHY MUST ALL ROUND MOTORS HAVE AN ODD NUMBER OF CYLINDERS PER ROW? Coop . |
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03-14-2023, 11:23 PM | #13 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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03-15-2023, 12:12 AM | #14 |
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Re: merc cam price
There's no way that would be cheaper, as claimed. And I'd have to wonder how well the welded tip would hold up unless it was properly re-heat-treated. I like the idea of using the steel lifter; fewer pieces means fewer related problems, but is this actually the way guys are doing it? |
03-15-2023, 06:15 AM | #15 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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From what I recall Walt Dupont explaining, you add length to the valve stem by welding and set the correct height by grinding. This is what I understand is done when using a reground performance cam with a smaller base circle due to the regrind. Stock cam may be a different process. |
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03-15-2023, 07:02 AM | #16 |
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Re: merc cam price
Years ago, I had a flathead cam from an old 59A that I tore down for parts. The cam had what looked like air pockets, bubbles, pores throughout the whole cam. It was that way on the lobes and brg surfaces. I could not believe that it had run for years that way and still looked like it was still usable. Has anybody ever seen anything like that? How could that make it through "quality control"?
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03-15-2023, 07:55 AM | #17 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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03-15-2023, 08:20 AM | #18 |
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Re: merc cam price
Various valve clearance setting fixtures for measuring and using with valve grinder, the grinding machine has a micrometer type adjustment that controls how much is removed from the stem
the one on the top i think came with a B&D machine, it will do T,A,B,60hp, and regular flathead V8, the others won’t do 60hp, one of those sets is Snap On blue point brand |
03-15-2023, 09:02 AM | #19 |
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Re: merc cam price
Yes, grinding tips is nothing new. It's been done for many, many decades. All the old machines that I've ever seen had that function. But welding them first? Never heard of that, and I have to question it's viability.
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03-15-2023, 09:12 AM | #20 |
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Re: merc cam price
Like I said, I hope Pete, Ronnie, Kiwi Tony or others chime in to explain.
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03-15-2023, 09:30 AM | #21 |
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Re: merc cam price
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03-15-2023, 11:25 AM | #22 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... "Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!" "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0 |
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03-15-2023, 12:04 PM | #23 |
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Re: merc cam price
How long will something last after dipped in cosmoline? Just asking.
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03-15-2023, 01:00 PM | #24 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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I have found Cosmoline will attack the bearing Babbitt surface actually eating away at the surface rendering the bearings junk. Cosmoline will not preserve a surface forever it eventually becomes acidic from what I have seen at least on bearings. Ronnieroadster
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish. "Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block" Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline. First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH |
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03-15-2023, 01:06 PM | #25 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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I always use adjustable lifters I never tried using the stock lifters on anything I do so I have no experience on this subject. Using stock non adjustable lifters would of course require the valve stem length to be longer to account for the additional lift on a reground cam. That being said Using a good quality high tensile strength welding rod to add to the valve stem length would certainly hold up fine especially in a Ford flathead application. Ronnieroadster
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish. "Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block" Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline. First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH |
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03-15-2023, 03:29 PM | #26 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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In the old days we torch brazed the tips with Eutectic 16fc. No heat treat required. Now we TIG weld with 347 stainless. No heat treat required. Machine to length in a lathe with DRO. For last 20 years we have been using John Deere valves if the customer wants stainless to run nitro. Otherwise it is NASCAR titanium take outs. Neither require welding. Our lifters have 9 3/8 holes drilled in them and weigh 33 grams. We only do vintage circle track engines of 321 ci or bigger and we turn them 7200 twice a lap. NO valve train problems. Cam lift in the .450 range. |
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03-15-2023, 05:08 PM | #27 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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I wasn't even born yet in the '50s, but do have a fair bit of experience with performance engines. Are you talking about flatheads running nitro and turning 7200 rpm? Today, you simply custom order a set of valves with longer stems. Maybe technology has passed you by? |
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03-15-2023, 05:35 PM | #28 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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As far as the valves, it would seem rather stupid to order a set of valves from yourself. |
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03-15-2023, 06:24 PM | #29 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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03-15-2023, 06:47 PM | #30 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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For those wondering WTF? I had asked Pete.... "WHY MUST ALL ROUND MOTORS HAVE AN ODD NUMBER OF CYLINDERS PER ROW"? It's possible that when I added "PER ROW", I may have confused matters. So, let's just imagine any of the simpler SINGLE ROW round motors, which all function on the same theory. For instance, we have the famous Pratt & Whitney R985 9-cylinder "round-motor". I stated that ALL round motors have an odd number of cylinders, per row. Well, the "985" is a single row engine. There is also a 7-cylinder Jacobs, as well as a 5-cylinder Kinner.... ALL with a mandatory odd number of cylinders made-up in configurations of one row each. All round motors (technically called "radial engines") have odd numbers of cylinders. The question was WHY? It all has to do with firing order. All round motors have #1 cylinder on top (as you face the REAR of engine). The cylinders are numbered as you count them in a CLOCKWISE direction. So, to keep matters simple here, let's look at a Kinner 5-cylinder engine. #1 cylinder is sticking up on top, center. The next cylinder to your RIGHT in the rotation is #2, then continuing on to #3, then around to #4, and eventually ending-up at #5, located to the LEFT of #1 up there on the very top. Below is a visual of a 5-cylinder round motor. KEEP IN MINDThis one is being seen FROM the Rear. THIS ONE is rotating clockwise. The actual firing order is 1-3-5-2-4. And you must remember that these are regular old 4-CYCLE engines. On the 5-cylinder engine, #1 fires, skip ONE cylinder and #3 fires. Then we skip a cylinder and #5 fires. Then we skip #1, and #2 fires. Then we skip #3 and #4 fires. After #4-cylinder fires, the next in line to fire would be #1 since the order skips ONE cylinder (#5) before firing again. IF you had a 6th cylinder, or any other even number of cylinders, your firing order would never let you get back to #1 cylinder firing. Make sense now? Coop . |
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03-15-2023, 09:22 PM | #31 |
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Re: merc cam price
Coop I have always admired anything air craft related especial radial engines. Heck last month I spent many hours at the Air Museum in Chino enjoying every minute of it. However I never gave much thought to the reason for the odd number of cylinders or the firing order. Your explanation is now etched in my brain I really enjoyed your explanation and visual example.
Ronnieroadster
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish. "Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block" Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline. First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH |
03-15-2023, 09:29 PM | #32 |
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Re: merc cam price
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03-15-2023, 09:47 PM | #33 | |
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Re: merc cam price
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Coop . |
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03-16-2023, 05:25 AM | #34 |
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Re: merc cam price
Coop thanks very much for the explanation. I too have always loved radial engines and been very intrigued by them. My old boss has a T6 with one a spare on a stand and some other kind on a stand. One of the baddest looking I have seen was a staggered multi row in the Curtis museum. Again thanks makes perfect sense.
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03-16-2023, 06:56 AM | #35 |
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Re: merc cam price
I too love radials. From birth untill the early 60s I often rode Ford Tri-motors to Put-In-Bay Ohio. Also watched Super G Constalations do mag checks & run ups at Port Columbus. The sound & smell are GR8, just like our flatheads have their own attributes. They also "mark their territories"..........
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