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04-05-2020, 04:06 AM | #1 |
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EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
I'll probably be bugging you guys with "newbie" questions from time to time. Hope you can put up with dumb "new guy" kind of stuff!
I purchased this 1928 Model A Pickup last month, and still waiting to see it in person. The shipping is dragging out for now. I purchased from Vintage Motors of Glendale, CA on eBay. In the description, it lists this Model A as an older restoration in good mechanical and cosmetic condition, with a "B" engine. What does "B" engine mean? Also, I'm looking for any tips you might want to pass along for inspecting this vehicle, once it's finally here. Thank you for any comments you might have. Sincerely, odie, the eccentric old guy! Last edited by Eccentric Old Guy; 04-20-2020 at 09:01 PM. |
04-05-2020, 04:45 AM | #2 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Looks like a nice truck you will have to master the dark art of "double de clutching" My son has the same truck but not as pretty !!! The model "B" engine came into production in 1932 and is a direct bolt in swap . It is a better engine with a heavier crank which is pressure fed with oil not gravity like an "A" engine .Has more power as well .
John in lovely sunny lockdown Suffolk County England . |
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04-05-2020, 05:22 AM | #3 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Nice truck. Best advice join a local club!
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04-05-2020, 07:22 AM | #4 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
If you are lucky enough to have a local club. I am in a model A desert.
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04-05-2020, 08:03 AM | #5 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Model B intake manifold. Model A derived Tillotson X carburetor.
The difference between the Tilly X and an actual Model B carburetor would be noticeable in power. (The difference between 50 and 40) Since you're half way there (manifold) I would spring the $180 for a rebuilt B and put that one on. Joe K
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04-05-2020, 08:06 AM | #6 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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04-05-2020, 08:07 AM | #7 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Subscribe to the the monthly “banger” thread over on the H.A.M.B. for some interesting model A/B discussions.
There’s some knowledgeable guys who post on it, me not being one of them(knowledgeable). The B engine has a slight advantage over the A in performance, better cam, intake,carb, maybe higher compression head?? Hopefully you have the B transmission as well, it would have synchronized 2nd and 3rd. 1.My recommendation is to purchase the Les Andrews book Vol. 1 That will help you get started with maintenance and getting familiar with your new pickup. 2.Go through the brakes, adjust them properly. They can work well despite what a lot of people may say. 3.My opinion only and can understand if many disagree, put LED bulbs in your taillights. They’re much brighter running and when braking, especially if you’re still 6v. Also, if you have one taillight, add another on the passenger side. Good luck |
04-05-2020, 08:47 AM | #8 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Looks great!
B blocks are an advantage, but the problem is that many of them were and are cracked. But if yours runs fine, do not worry about it. But keep it in the back of your head. Engine compartment looks great - looks like yoh have an original fan belt too.
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04-05-2020, 09:20 AM | #9 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Welcome to the club! Here are my thoughts:
-Watch the seepage on the left side of the engine from the head gasket. Maybe a warped head/block or the gasket may be toast. -I am assuming the front motor mount is a stock B mount. If not, then I am not sure what it is. -If the fan is original-pull it. They have a habit of coming apart and damaging radiators/hoods and heads (yours)! New ones are aluminum original are steel. -Change fluids drive her and get used to her idiosyncrasies. Mike
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04-05-2020, 09:26 AM | #10 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Thanks for the responses, gentlemen.....
Ahhh, I see......the "B" engine is a direct bolt up of a 1932 engine..... At this point, I have no idea if I have a 1932 transmission to go with it. Would be nice to have that synchromesh in 2nd and 3rd gears, but I can get by with re-learning the double clutch thing. I actually had a 1930 Model A sport coupe almost 50 years ago, but for only 2-3 years before I sold it......I'm re-familiarizing myself on them now, as I find I have a great lapse of memory on driving the model A. I've been without a Model A since that time......although I've had several other antique cars over the years. Unknown if it's been converted to 12v......whatever it is, I'll probably keep it that way. I'm assuming the original bed had a wood floor, and this one looks like all metal.....that's fine with me. I'm not really a purist.....just someone who wants to enjoy a nice model A once in awhile. I believe I'll need a tool box for the bed.....are there any original reproductions available?.....If not, I'll just get one from a local supplier and bolt it on. What's the best publication for general maintenance of the model A?.....and, where is it available? Thanks for your help.......it is most appreciated! odie, the eccentric old guy! Last edited by Eccentric Old Guy; 04-05-2020 at 09:57 AM. |
04-05-2020, 10:26 AM | #11 | ||
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Quote:
The keeper strips and center metal pan are available too - both in carbon steel and stainless. Also the unusual bolts with shallow carriage type heads and large square washers (one corner turned for alignment.) Many use oak and stain/poly for appearance. As you say you're no prisoner to accuracy so you can do as you wish. An all metal floor does have advantage in that at least it is durable - the original floors mostly "gone" now. Joe K March '29 CC Pickup - type "H" lights, powerhouse generator, speedo escutcheon painted black - Henry didn't waste ANYTHING.
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04-05-2020, 11:09 AM | #12 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Congratulations on a very handsome looking truck. And a big Yayyyy on the color. Don't see many black ones. The B engine isn't a negative thing. It's only negative if terminally cracked, and the same holds true for A engines. Keep us up to date after it arrives, would love to know more.
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04-05-2020, 11:32 AM | #13 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Your front motor mount is a '34, much wider than '32 and a little wider than '33. The B does bolt in, with some modifications at the rear. e-mail me at jimb4e4@gmail and I'll send you the chapter in my book about installing a Bee in your A.
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04-05-2020, 11:51 AM | #14 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Man that's a clean looking truck, congrats.
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04-05-2020, 12:52 PM | #15 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Could try a re-torque of the head . Am not familiar with using acorn head nuts, any chance they are bottoming out affecting the head torque? |
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04-05-2020, 01:06 PM | #16 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
And welcome to the Barn, nice truck.
I also just noticed the gas in the fuel bowl looks iffy, red/orange. If so, do not turn it over/start it till you clean out the tank and carb. Or if in a hurry to get it started, you can hang a small container with fresh gas from the hood rod and supply gas to that carb that way. You do not want to suck a bunch of varnish crud into the carb. The operators manual is great, here is a link where you can down load a copy. Chocked full of info including how to start, maintenance, etc. http://www.motormayhem.net/model-a-f...owners-manual/ |
04-05-2020, 01:21 PM | #17 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
My advice is not to start changing or adding things with maybe the exception of the fan blade if it is an original due to safety. make sure the gas and oil are fresh and buy an owners manual. Drive it like you love it and want it to last and it will give good service.
The head seepage should not be a worry as most do that due to capillary action through the gasket. you can make sure the head bolts have proper torque for peace of mind. |
04-05-2020, 02:25 PM | #18 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Good looking truck - I always liked the "square" cab. FYI, pickups didn't come with rear bumpers. It's a sensible addition but if it was mine, I'd change to a full-width one to match the front - the split bumper was to clear a rear-mounted spare.
As for a toolbox, another option is one mounted on the running board - those were available as aftermarket "back in the day". Or some vendors used to sell one that mounted between the front frame horns. AFAIK, neither is currently available new but used ones can be found. Some folks have made their own. |
04-05-2020, 03:07 PM | #19 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
I have seen "tool boxes" that plug into the bed pockets and straddle the length of the bed above each side fender. A very practical arrangement thought I, sort of along the lines of a service body truck.
I thought I would make some in wood - with tilted tops to shed rain that hinge up to expose the "till." And hasp locks to keep the tools where you want them. The pickups, more especially the 28-29 Closed Cab tend to benefit visually from "stake boards" on either side - the tool boxes would emulate this with a purpose. Joe K
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04-05-2020, 04:12 PM | #20 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
1.My recommendation is to purchase the Les Andrews book Vol. 1, it is a must for a newby.
Gerry Birch Bay WA |
04-05-2020, 07:16 PM | #21 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Good lookin Truck. Congrats!
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04-05-2020, 07:35 PM | #22 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
EOG: By the way - There are no "dumb" questions when it comes to Model As, and that is from an experience since 1964. WELCOME ABOARD...
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04-05-2020, 10:08 PM | #23 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Wow......thanks for all the replies!
Gives me a few things to think about while I'm waiting for delivery. I wish there was a "like" button......as many of these replies deserve some recognition for the effort. Thanks Gerry......I'll look for that book......I need some reading material!!!!! odie, the eccentric old guy! |
04-05-2020, 11:14 PM | #24 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Thank you for the suggestion. Les Andrews book on the way, plus a copy of the original owners manual. BTW: Interior look right to you guys? odie, the eccentric old guy! |
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04-05-2020, 11:28 PM | #25 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
I had noticed that the exterior is correct, black headlamp shells, black radiator shell, cowl band painted body color. Truck wood originally would have been pained teh body/bed color. And someone already mentioned no rear bumpers originally.
Interior - Door Cards/kick panels would have been a black cardboard type material, would not have been covered with cloth/vinyl. There also was not a headliner. The floor boards originally were just stained/painted (dipped) black. looks like the shift knob and steering wheel are aftermarket. I do think your interior is very nice, just not original. I really do like your truck. |
04-06-2020, 02:27 PM | #26 | ||
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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Quote:
Quote:
28 does not have cowl band. No doubt someone will correct if I'm wrong, but I believe brown upholstery and red steering wheel are correct for 28 - agree that shift knob is aftermarket. The steering column support attached under the dash rail is a 31 type. That's a fairly common modification because stress on the gas tank mounted support can cause leaks. What's that cable(?) looped around the steering column? |
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04-06-2020, 03:11 PM | #27 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
A really nice truck. The advice given is very good, I would add to change out the carb, the Tilly is not the best for this motor etc. Also look into engine pans and by all means check out the fan blade. The original steel blade is dangerous at best. The new Aluminum are cast and excellent. All vendors sell them. Have fun with it. Jack
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04-06-2020, 05:56 PM | #28 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
From the Standards. through July 1928 they had black artificial leather seats and Spanish brown August 1928--mid 1930. The floor mat was the same rubber mat
as used in cars. |
04-06-2020, 08:36 PM | #29 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Just a couple of more thoughts:
1) If you need to set the timing here is a little information that may come in handy. The first thing you do is to remove the timing pin from the timing cover. You reverse it and stick it into the hole so it contacts the timing gear. You turn the engine until the pin drops into a small dimple on the timing gear. The puts the engine in the correct position so you can now proceed to the distributer to set the timing. See the archives or service bulletin for the whole story. What you need to be aware of is the location of the pin is slightly different between the Model A and Model B engines. You have a Model A distributer and if you time it by the book you need a Model A front timing cover. You can find work arounds in the archives. I have attached a couple of photos. First the pin. Second a Model B timing cover showing the timing pin at the top of the oval boss. A very few timing covers were made using the oval boss with the timing pin at the bottom of the oval boss. Your truck has a Model A distributor and to time it correctly (by the book) you should see a circular boss that has been drilled for the timing pin. 2) In case you get hassled by someone about the rear license plate not being visible behind the bumper I have included a couple of pictures of how I modified the license plate bracket to mount the plate above the light. 3) When you lube it don't forget the throttle shaft that runs behind the engine (see photo), the distributer and the generator (if there is a place to lube, sometimes sealed bearings were used). These are places that are frequently overlooked. 4) Looks like a nice truck, have fun with it. Charlie Stephens |
04-06-2020, 09:29 PM | #30 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Charlie Stephens |
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04-06-2020, 10:38 PM | #31 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
So I noticed you highlighted the door cards/kick panels being black - is this correct or incorrect? I do not see you commenting on this. I was pretty sure trucks did not have floor mats since they were more of a utility vehicle, and also what is what I have heard from club members and read somewhere. Thanks for the corrections. |
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04-07-2020, 11:53 AM | #32 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
[QUOTE=30 Closed Cab PU;1871118]So I noticed you highlighted the door cards/kick panels being black - is this correct or incorrect? I do not see you commenting on this.
Could be black or brown depending if it is early or late 1928. See page E-66 Trim Schemes of the Standards or page 12-33. I was pretty sure trucks did not have floor mats since they were more of a utility vehicle, and also what is what I have heard from club members and read somewhere. See Floor Coverings page E-60 or 11-3 of the Standard. The mat was part number A-35230, A-35230-B, or A-35230-C dependent on hand brake location. |
04-07-2020, 12:01 PM | #33 | ||
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Quote:
My comment on door/kick panels is highlighted above. I may have confused by using the term "upholstery". I was including the door/kick panels as well as seat, but "interior" probably would have been more accurate. But see Bob C's posts #28 and #32 above - looks like you and I were both half right. |
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04-11-2020, 08:21 AM | #34 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
I checked the engine number (A263xxx) against the MAFCA chart, and it matches production date of July 1928......so, the engine, I presume is original, and cannot be a model B engine. production date chart from MAFCA here: http://www.mafca.com/data_eng_production.html @CHuDWah, I have no idea what that cable was.....it wasn't there when I took delivery. I've seen photos of other '28 Fords with the brown steering wheel......I'm assuming it's the original steering wheel.....? The truck is very dusty......but, appears to be a body-off restoration, but older. The frame, suspension, etc appears to have been painted, and reassembled. Who knows how long ago it was restored, or how much it's been driven, but it appears to have set quite a bit. There is no battery.....been removed. How do you put a new battery in? Do you have to remove the floorboard to access? Can I get a regular 6v battery at NAPA, or is this a special sized battery? (I checked with NAPA, and they stock 6v batteries.......just not sure it's the right one. All this is assuming it's a 6v system, and hasn't been converted to 12v. I checked on the starter and generator, and didn't see any markings (but it was getting dark). The oogah horn does have a plate and marked for 6v. Once I get a battery in it, I can try to start and drive it.......then I'll have a good idea of what needs to be done....... It does have operational brakes.....thankfully!!!!! Tires look aged a bit, but good tread, and no noticeable cracking. The Les Andrews book hasn't arrived yet...... I'll need a source of supplies, and counting on you guys to steer me towards where I can get needed parts for maintenance, the aluminum radiator fan, spark plugs, points (?), etc. (Is there an oil filter?) Is the oil a non-detergent oil? What weight gear oil for transmission and differential? odie, the eccentric old guy! Can you tell if this is a 6v system by it's looks in this photo? Last edited by Eccentric Old Guy; 04-11-2020 at 08:36 AM. |
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04-11-2020, 09:08 AM | #35 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Until you can drop the oil pan and confirm it is clean, use non-detergent. Thereafter you can use detergent. 10W-30 seems to be the current favorite but I have used straight 30W for years. Just buy the cheapest oil you can find- it will be 10X better than 1929 oil was.
Tractor Supply sells it in big containers 4-5-qt. You need a group 1, 6-volt battery, which is very common. Most retailers have them.
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04-11-2020, 09:25 AM | #36 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Other than maintenance items you look to have a very nice truck - congratulations! ------------ Last edited by 30 Closed Cab PU; 04-11-2020 at 09:34 AM. Reason: typos |
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04-11-2020, 09:37 AM | #37 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Also rear end and transmission oil is usually called 600W oil, available form the model a vendors. There are also other options others here on the Barn can recommend.
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04-11-2020, 11:01 AM | #38 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
The picture of the engine you posted has a B head on it, post a picture of the
other side of the engine so we can tell for sure what it is. |
04-11-2020, 11:09 AM | #39 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Is it possible to have a model B head on a model A block????? (the serial number of the block definitely places it at a July 1928 date.......this does seem confusing, for sure.....! Last edited by Eccentric Old Guy; 04-11-2020 at 12:02 PM. |
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04-11-2020, 11:16 AM | #40 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
I can add some fresh gas to the tank.....that might be a good idea, eh? EOG Last edited by Eccentric Old Guy; 04-11-2020 at 12:02 PM. |
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04-11-2020, 11:36 AM | #41 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Hello EOG, your engine is definitely not original to your truck...Model B engine...has a C on head, block off plate where the B engine fuel pump was located (passenger side of the block). As recommended above, drain old gas into cans (containers) since the Model A fuel is gravity fed, this should be fairly simple.
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04-11-2020, 12:06 PM | #42 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Is it possible to have a model B head on a Model A block????? EOG |
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04-11-2020, 12:14 PM | #43 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
The B engine was not stamped on the block, it was on the flywheel housing. Somebody probably stamped the A number into the B Block.
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04-11-2020, 12:30 PM | #44 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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04-11-2020, 01:19 PM | #45 | ||
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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Quote:
I just got back from the storage place.....went out there to check. Definitely has the "C" on top of the head, which is part of the casting. The engine number could very well be a re-stamp, and looks hand stamped. You guys had me worried there for a minute, that this engine would run at all! Well.....I hope it has the model B tranny to go with it. EOG |
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04-11-2020, 01:25 PM | #46 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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04-11-2020, 01:39 PM | #47 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
That gas in the sediment bowl looks nasty to me. Do not even hand crank or use the starter without draining the tank and adding fresh gas 1st - other wise you may suck up varnish/junk into the carb passages/jets and plug up your carb. I had this happen to me when I originally resuscitated my A, ended up purchasing a rebuilt carb after I cleaned out the tank. I could not get the motor to run . It would fire, but would not run. Last edited by 30 Closed Cab PU; 04-11-2020 at 01:43 PM. Reason: typos |
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04-11-2020, 01:55 PM | #48 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
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04-11-2020, 01:57 PM | #49 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
BTW, definitely a 'B' Head, you have the three bolt water pump. (Didn't see that mentioned anywhere) |
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04-11-2020, 02:01 PM | #50 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
I'd say the steering wheel is correct. It's usually referred to as "red" (as opposed to later black ones) but it can be brownish, especially with some age on it. You've gotten some good answers, so just a little expansion on battery replacement. You have to remove the horizontal half of the floorboard (as opposed to the angled half that meets the firewall). Lift the mat and you can see the bolts around the perimeter. There is an inspection plate in the floorboard - unfortunately it's not big enough for battery removal/replacement. And re your engine... It's a B - fuel pump block-off and no oil return tube. Model A engine number is on driver-side pad above water inlet. B is on flywheel housing but curiously it still has the pad (blank) like A. I'd guess yours was stamped in the A location, presumably with the original 28 number. Does it have stars on each end of the number? Does it match the title? Hopefully this will not cause titling problems with the MVD. An A engine was numbered when it passed testing/inspection. However, there could be as much as a 3-month lapse before it was installed in a chassis. At that point, the engine number was stamped on top of the driver-side frame rail when the vehicle was assembled. It would be interesting to see if your frame number matches the engine number, but unfortunately you have to remove the cab to see it - even then, it's not always easily visible. Ford considered the engine/frame number to be the vehicle's serial number - they say so in the owner's manual (Instruction Book in Ford-speak). Many states used it as the title number, although some now assign their own number. Bob C quoted the judging standards that brown interior started in August 28. If your (original) engine was July, and given the lapse between engine numbering and vehicle assembly, brown could be correct for your truck. |
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04-11-2020, 02:27 PM | #51 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
eog |
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04-11-2020, 02:46 PM | #52 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
That gives me a better idea of battery replacement......probably sometime this coming week. BTW, the door panels are not fabric covered. They are some kind of fiberboard, brown in color. Yes, the motor number is the same as on the title (Texas).....I don't recall any extra numbers, or stars. It just A with 6 digits, as I recall. One thing I'm still a bit confused about is if the battery is negative ground, or positive ground. Seems to me they were all negative ground back then.....but, I'm open to other points of view on that. Thanks for posting your thoughts...... eog |
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04-11-2020, 02:55 PM | #53 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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04-11-2020, 03:00 PM | #54 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
True for A. But B is factory-stamped on flywheel cover, yet still has number pad above water inlet like A. The pad is blank so it could be non-factory-stamped and still have same texture as block. |
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04-11-2020, 03:08 PM | #55 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
1. You need to buy or fabricate something to hold the brake and clutch pedals. The Model A had a shaft coming out the side of the bell housing to support the brake and clutch pedals. The Model B had a throw out arm coming out of the bell housing and bracket mounted to the frame. 2. You need to make a bracket for the wishbone, the Model a wishbone attached to the bottom of the bell housing and the Model B attached to the frame. 3. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Charlie Stephens Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 04-11-2020 at 03:54 PM. |
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04-11-2020, 03:36 PM | #56 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
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04-11-2020, 03:48 PM | #57 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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04-11-2020, 03:54 PM | #58 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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04-11-2020, 05:30 PM | #59 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Hook it up correctly as positive ground. If you replace the cables be sure to get cables from an early Ford parts supplier that will be the correct diameter. If you buy them from the local auto parts store you will probably get cables designed for 12 volts which are smaller (the counterman in the store won't know the difference). When the engine is not running turn on the lights and confirm the ammeter shows a discharge. If it shows charge then someone that probably didn't know what they were doing was working on the electrical system. Don't just reverse the leads on the ammeter. Post and we will walk you through the fix.
Charlie Stephens Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 04-11-2020 at 05:38 PM. |
04-11-2020, 07:01 PM | #60 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Have a good day all..... eog |
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04-11-2020, 07:55 PM | #61 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Fix the fan. An accident just waiting to happen is close enough to broke. Be sure to buy the aluminum fan new from one of the reputable vendors (like Bratton's). Some of the early ones had blades that were not in a line and had the wrong taper where the fan goes on the water pump shaft. Immediately look for cracks starting to form on your fan blade as replacing it will probably not be your next project.
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04-11-2020, 08:05 PM | #62 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Replace the fan--a lot of us who are long term A owners(56 yrs for me same car 3 wives) have found out the hard way that the original fans let go sometimes with expensive consequences. Penny wise pound foolish rather than if it aint broke dont fix it for this one. The B engine is not a direct replacement, if , using the A gearbox you have to use the A bell housing. The B oil pan has the lower part of the flywheel cover built in. It needs to be trimmed off to fit the A bell housing. If you look at the oil pan and it is not trimmed you have an A gearbox, if its still on the oil pan you have a B trans. . Find an old fart that knows how to double clutch have him take you fpor a ride. Double clutching is easy to learn. If you really get it down you can do it without the clutch( only for experianced A drivers try it)
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04-11-2020, 08:25 PM | #63 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
When I put a Model B engine in my '31 RDPU I kept the Model A transmission. Attached is a picture showing the strip of metal I left when I cut off the rear part of the Model B oil pan. I didn't want to try removing the spot welds and risking a leak.
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04-11-2020, 08:58 PM | #64 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Model Ts I believe were negative ground, can not remember why Henry decided to make Model As positive ground. From teh factory pickups were not fabric/vinyl covered from teh factory. They are considered a utility/commercial type vehicle, Henry decided it was not needed. If you have cardboard/ semi flexible door cards and kick panels, they could be original, quite a find especially if they are in good shape.. I have original black door cards but no kick panels. My truck is a late 30 but the door cards are in poor shape - pieces of the cards missing, very worn. |
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04-11-2020, 09:34 PM | #65 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
You guys are such a help.....thanks!
I'm working up an order at Snyder's for: two blade aluminum fan fan knock off tool fan belt Any words of wisdom, suggestions, before I place this order? What about spark plugs......get them at the local auto parts store? Where can I get an original gear shift knob? eog |
04-12-2020, 12:37 AM | #66 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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Tip - when replacing the fan place cardboard against the radiator fins/core to prevent accidental damage. |
04-12-2020, 09:31 AM | #67 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
You can plugs at the local store (get the champion W18?)or you can spring for the repop Champion 3X plugs (I think they run better). As far as shift knob, swap meet, ebay, snyders, Berts should have an original if that is what you want.
Mike
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04-12-2020, 10:08 AM | #68 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
I'll be sure to place the cardboard against the radiator. Without removing the water pump and using the knock out tool, I'm assuming there will be a limited amount of space to strike the tool with a hammer...... I don't know what plugs were installed. To date, I've only had about an hour of inspection time since taking delivery. The truck now sets in a mini-storage stall, as there is no room for it here at my home. Since this is a model B engine, the plugs may not be the same as those prescribed for a stock model A engine......any thoughts on that, or suggestions? The order to Snyders has been placed for the aluminum 2-blade fan, fan knock off tool, new fan belt, with the addition of an original type black gearshift knob. Thank you so much for your generous help to know what to do, and do the right things in getting this truck operational. I probably would have screwed it up, if not for yours, and the others who offered advice in this thread. What's your opinions about installing a temperature gauge, and oil pressure gauge? It seems that these things would have been a natural thing to do at the factory.....no? I see these items available at Snyders. Since I have a model B engine, would the standard installation items be different than those supplied with the gauges????? eog |
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04-12-2020, 10:15 AM | #69 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Thank you for responding. eog |
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04-12-2020, 11:26 AM | #70 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
The plugs are the same. You will have to remove the water pump or
the radiator to change the fan. Bob |
04-12-2020, 11:58 AM | #71 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
111 Last edited by 30 Closed Cab PU; 04-12-2020 at 12:06 PM. Reason: typos |
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04-12-2020, 12:29 PM | #72 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Forgot to mention, when you take the sediment bowl off, there is a filter screen,. It is possible it may be varnished up, clean it with brake clean, hold it up to a light to make sure its not clogged up with varnish.
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04-12-2020, 12:31 PM | #73 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
The generator appears to be an original version so I really doubt the car has been converted to 12 volts. Supergnat
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04-12-2020, 01:17 PM | #74 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
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04-12-2020, 10:20 PM | #75 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
I went out to the Model A this afternoon, and noticed that the red lead is connected to the starter motor, and the black lead is connected to the bell housing. I searched on FordBarn and found that it preferable to connect the positive to the frame and the negative to the starter motor.
Anyway, I'm wondering if the previous owner may have connected the battery as negative ground because of the color coding of the battery cables......? My question is what would have been the consequences of hooking up a battery incorrectly, and then attempting to start it? I also went to the auto parts store, and they closed up early today. I'll go back tomorrow and pick up a 6v "group one" battery, and drain the gas. Hopefully, I can get it running, and bring it home for further inspection and some routine maintenance. Any input is welcome......thank you. eog |
04-12-2020, 11:20 PM | #76 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Don't just go by the cable color, but where they attach both to the car and the battery.
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04-13-2020, 12:23 AM | #77 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
double post......
eog |
04-13-2020, 12:39 AM | #78 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Note that the battery posts are different size, the positive post being a larger diameter. This might help you determine which cable is ground and power.
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04-13-2020, 12:49 AM | #79 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Most battery are marked + & - also
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04-13-2020, 09:09 AM | #80 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Am not 100% sure what will happen if attempting to start with battery hooked up backwards.
This is my best guess on original design components; all lights - not polarity sensitive , electric motor Wipers - not polarity sensitive, starter - not polarity sensitive, horn - not polarity sensitive, Stock generator with stock design cutout - will probably stop charging since it will lose polarization but will not be damaged (is easy to re-polarize), Ignition - will still work but at reduced voltage output/spark due to the coil polarity being incorrect. Reversing polarity on non stock design charging systems is where you have to be careful because electronics may be damaged - Diode style cutout, regulators instead of cutout. If converted to alternator - I believe these are polarity sensitive since they have integrated regulation/electronics and will be damaged. From the factory - Starter cable is always red. Ground cable is always a large flat woven wire uninsulated cable going to the frame (unless some one has modified this). As post 78 indicates the battery posts are different sizes so if the A has been converted to - ground, the cable colors remain the same and cable clamps are changed since they are also different sizes. Since the starter is grounded mechanically where it mounts, its ground path back to the battery is also through other mechanical ground connections - motor pans/motor mounts etc. Over time corrosion/etc. can affect the quality of the starter ground path and cause the starter to turn over slower. So a modification is done where an additional ground cable is added (typically a 0 gauge cable) between the tranny/bell housing to the battery/frame ground connection. Once you have the battery installed and before turning on the ignition, turn on your headlights and check the ammeter. It should show discharge/negative. If it shows positive battery is probably in backwards. If not familiar with the starting procedures thoroughly read/understand what is in the Model A Operator/user manual. Do not over use the choke. The choke rod is used to prime the intake /cylinders with fuel/air for only a couple of compressions and then released/pushed in. The car should start when you release the choke rod. Do not think you should have to pull it out and hold it out until it starts - this will flood the motor. When starting it is important to have the left lever, spark advance, fully up. When it starts running immediately pull the lever down 1/2 - 1/3 its travel downwards. Check your messages. |
04-13-2020, 02:29 PM | #81 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Any problems with using some starting fluid to get up and running for the first time?????
eog |
04-13-2020, 03:56 PM | #82 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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04-13-2020, 09:52 PM | #83 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Hello all......drained tank and installed new battery......couldn't get it running. Flooding issues. Fuel was dribbling out the carb intake, a continuous drip, drip, drip, until the tank shut-off valve was closed. I'm thinking maybe a stuck float, float not buoyant and allowing a continuous flow of gas, or some grunge in the float valve. Your thoughts, please......
I'm thinking maybe a carburetor re-build is in order. I think this may not be a Zenith Carburetor. Can anyone look at this photo and identify what carburetor I have? (This is a 1932 model B engine.) Thank you for any input, advice, thoughts you may have on this...... Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers. This may work, but if I'm going to remove the carburetor, I think I can jury-rig a little better......would have to make up a clamp that suits the purpose a little better.......or, buy another intake manifold????? EOG |
04-13-2020, 10:19 PM | #84 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Looks like you may have a Tillotson Carb.
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04-13-2020, 10:19 PM | #85 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
The carburetor appears to have a rectangular float bowl like a Model B but I am afraid it isn't. The fuel inlet for the Model B is in the front. The reflection from your carburetor appears to be alloy instead of cast iron. The Zenith should say "Zenith" on the bowl. Does yours say anything? The first picture shows a Model A carb with a round float bowl and the fuel line entering from the side and the second one shows a Model B carb with a rectangular bowl and the fuel line entering from the front. My advice would be to find a Model B carb and have its rebuilt (or rebuild it yourself).
Charlie Stephens Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 04-13-2020 at 10:35 PM. |
04-13-2020, 10:47 PM | #86 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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Here are some better pictures, the Tillotson name is cast on the side towards the engine...
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04-13-2020, 10:55 PM | #87 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Not the typical zenith carb used on most A version engines where the float bowl is in the bottom half of the carb. This is a side bowl carb, sorry do not know enough to ID it. My best guess it is a B Carb.
Just to make sure the ignition is somewhat functioning - take a spark plug lead off a spark plug, and place the free end of the lead about a 1/4 in away from the spark plug post. Turn the ignition on and hit the starter, should see a blue flash/spark across the gap. If not you also have an ignition issue. If the intake manifold is not sealed, you will run lean, but I think it would still run, just not run well. I would worry about this later. Sounds like you know some about carbs. If the bowl overfills the excess gas starts leaking out the air intake and/or a small hole in bottom of the air intake. Take a spark plug out and confirm if it is dry, or flooded with gas. Check the gas line connection and the carb gas filter to insure it is not leaking there, check the bowl drain plug to insure it is not leaking there. Same with whatever holds the bottom of the float bowl onto the carb. Next as you indicate 1st things to look at are the float and the float valve. Float - remove and shake it and listen to see gas has leaked into it, make sure it hinges freely up and down. Float valve - remove it and exercise it, clean it out if you can. Reassemble the carb and turn it upside down with the bottom of the float bowl off, blow hard into the gas line connection to see if the float valve seals and does not leak, exercise the float up and down very gently/slowly while blowing and the valve should seal. Am not familiar with this carb, someone else will need to tell you how to check/set the float level. That's about all you can do without a through cleaning/adjust of the carb. If you have a spare working carb, or can borrow one, try swapping, I believe all A motor carbs work on the b motor - somebody correct me if I am wrong. There are good procedures for the a motor Zenith carb for cleaning/rebuilding/setting. I do not remember see anything for the sidebowl carb. Hopefully others can help. |
04-13-2020, 11:02 PM | #88 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
This is why whenever the manifolds are replaced it is best to face them as a pair. This is also why it is best to torque around 35# also.
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04-14-2020, 12:53 AM | #89 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
(Nice lookin' "square back" Model A PU you have there. I'm seeing a few others with some great looking color combinations.....you guys are so creative! ) At this point I don't know if I have ignition problems as well. There were no hic-ups, as I tried to start it.....but, I'm assuming it was flooded from the git-go, so I could have good ignition that was thwarted by too much fuel. I had a friend with me this afternoon when I tried to start it up, but we didn't pull a plug to find out if there was good spark. Just wondering if there is a way to check for ignition if I'm by myself.......looks like this might be a 2-man operation to do it right......? EOG Last edited by Eccentric Old Guy; 04-14-2020 at 01:02 AM. |
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04-14-2020, 11:28 AM | #90 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Before tearing into the carb - with the gas on try tapping the float bowl with something like a screwdriver handle, or wrench, or hammer, etc. A couple of times in the past this has worked for me, getting the float valve to seat better.
To check ignition - take a lead off a plug, space it a 1/8 - 1/4 inch from the plug. ignition on. On the drivers side of the motor push the starter rod into the switch toward the starter motor, check for spark. A one man way of doing it. Last edited by 30 Closed Cab PU; 04-14-2020 at 11:31 AM. Reason: typos |
04-14-2020, 04:31 PM | #91 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
I went out to the truck this morning and installed a battery cut-off switch, and removed the Tillotson carburetor. I have it on my desk as I type, but haven't disassembled it yet. I see your advice for one-man check of the spark.....so simple.....why didn't I think of that! Oh well.....next time out to the truck, and I'll try that. This is a Model X-F Tillotson. A couple hours later: Carb has been disassembled and reassembled......thanks to a YouTube video. Only things I found wrong is the float needle valve seemed a little sticky, but couldn't visibly see any grunge in the orifice. After cleaning, it did move freely. There was supposed to be a little gasket around the float needle valve seat, which was missing. I replaced it with a rubber o ring. There was a little grunge in the float bowl, but not much. The main jet, and idle mixture screw seemed ok. (I used a rubber hose and blew into it.....air was passing, so I assume it's all ok......did the same for the float needle valve, ok there, too.) OK.....wish me luck!!!!! EOG |
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04-14-2020, 04:43 PM | #92 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
If you are talking about a washer around the threaded portion of the float valve, it is called a shim washer. You use different thicknesses or multiple washers to set the float height. It is not recommended to set the float height by bending the tang on the float. The O-ring is ok for now but best to get the correct washer(s). Depending on the type of rubber it is it may not hold up with ethanol gas. Ethanol eats rubber. Good Luck. |
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04-14-2020, 06:56 PM | #93 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Bad news......carburetor still leaks like a sieve. Also tried to check spark and couldn't detect a spark. My 13/16 spark plug socket won't fit the spark plug (I see it's 7/8"), so I disconnected the spark plug strap and put it close to the terminal. I guess the next step is to get a full rebuild kit for the Carburetor. Does anyone know if a model A intake manifold will fit the model B engine? I see quite a few model A intake manifolds on eBay, not very expensive. EOG |
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04-14-2020, 07:02 PM | #94 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Yes the A manifold work and you will notice that the choke rod will
line up better to the carb. Bob |
04-14-2020, 07:49 PM | #95 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Charlie Stephens |
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04-14-2020, 08:35 PM | #96 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
In post 83 he said the manifold is broken.
Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers. |
04-14-2020, 10:05 PM | #97 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Charlie Stephens |
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04-15-2020, 11:22 AM | #98 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Bought this manifold on eBay, plus Tillotson carb rebuild kit from Brattons.
I assume the only thing the vacuum hole would be useful for, is windshield wipers? I have a single manual wiper on my truck. This manifold has the vacuum hole plugged. EOG |
04-15-2020, 11:29 AM | #99 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Charlie Stephens Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 04-15-2020 at 11:41 AM. |
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04-15-2020, 11:40 AM | #100 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
Charlie Stephens |
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04-15-2020, 11:45 AM | #101 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Hole is for vacuum wipers, also sometimes used to spray in water mist while motor running to attempt to clean carbon/soot out of the combustion chamber/valves/plugs. Also can spray Marvel Mystery oil or Seafoam in an attempt to free sticky valves. In addition both can be added to gas for sticky valves.
Attach a vacuum gauge there for diagnostics/troubleshooting. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ge+diagnostics https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...t=Vacuum+chart |
04-15-2020, 11:49 AM | #102 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
If new gaskets use the copper clad.
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04-15-2020, 05:30 PM | #103 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
Quote:
I realize your suggestion of having machine shop work done is probably the most perfect way to accomplish this but, I do have budget considerations. Thank you for your thoughts on this..... My neighbor has volunteered to help me tow the '28 truck to my home.....where I have access to my tools. Probably another week, or so.....before I can tow it here. EOG Last edited by Eccentric Old Guy; 04-15-2020 at 05:35 PM. |
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04-15-2020, 05:36 PM | #104 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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04-15-2020, 06:11 PM | #105 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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04-15-2020, 06:13 PM | #106 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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Quote:
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04-15-2020, 10:11 PM | #107 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
I think you should wait to do that repair until you are able to do it correctly. You don't have to use a machine shop unless the pRTS ARE ON A DIFFERENT PLANE. A FRACTIONAL AMOUNT CAN BE ABSORBED BY THE GASKET (oops cap lock). Just use it as is for now and get to know your machine.
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04-16-2020, 12:47 AM | #108 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
I will let others comment on this post as this is based on reading, not actual experience.
Thought I read somewhere that it is permissible to replace one or both manifolds, and not bolt them together. Make sure each are somewhat flat with a fine file, and use the copper clad gaskets, torque bolts to 35 lbs. Most of the time they will be OK. Use the gland rings on the exhaust manifold to prevent # 4 cylinder exhaust manifold sagging issue.. For the carb/Manifold connection, Tillotson carbs have a tendency to warp because they are pot metal, use sand paper taped to a piece of glass to flatten the carb flange (zenith and Tillotson). and on the intake manifold flange surface. Use the thin paper/cardboard style gasket, do not over torque the carb bolts. Not a lot of torque is required since it only has to seal the very low vacuum in the intake manifold. |
04-16-2020, 06:58 AM | #109 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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EOG |
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04-16-2020, 07:04 AM | #110 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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It's going to be at least a week before I can get started on this.....later, my friend! EOG |
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04-16-2020, 07:07 AM | #111 | |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
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That's something to think about as well, JF......thanks for the input. I guess I still have the option of doing a better jury-rig to make a seal of carb to intake manifold for now. If I can get it running that way, the manifold machining can always be done later, I suppose. EOG Last edited by Eccentric Old Guy; 04-16-2020 at 07:12 AM. |
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04-16-2020, 10:54 AM | #112 |
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Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup
First you bolt the 2 manifolds together and then check that all the faces (6) that contact the block are in the same plane..
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