The Ford Barn

Redbird · 03-17-2015, 11:03 AM

What is the recommended ft./lbs to torque the wheels of 31 A?

BILL WILLIAMSON · 03-17-2015, 11:17 AM

55 Ft Lbs, the crank will do this easily! Chief said, "Tighten them until they go, SCREEEECH"
Bill W.

Kevin in NJ · 03-17-2015, 11:25 AM

Using the hand crank/ lug wrench, pull up with your legs.

Redbird · 03-17-2015, 11:27 AM

Thank you Bill.

rocket1 · 03-17-2015, 01:59 PM

Torque them with dry threads.

Charlie Stephens · 03-17-2015, 03:40 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

Using the hand crank/ lug wrench, pull up with your legs.

Does it mater if you are a 97 pound weakling or a body builder? I for one like torque specs.

Charlie Stephens

Marco Tahtaras · 03-17-2015, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Does it mater if you are a 97 pound weakling or a body builder? I for one like torque specs.

Charlie Stephens

I don't think so. They survived back then with a lug wrench and no AAA! Of course they did have original lug nuts.

Bruce Lancaster · 03-17-2015, 04:20 PM

If you must find a spec...find a shop manual from a '60's-eary '70's big Ford or 1/2 ton pickup. Ford used the same lugnut (minus the acorn dome, dropped when Fords got hubcaps over the lugs in '32) well into modern torque-wrenching times. I would get an actual Ford spec and not assume things like the modern "shop manuals" for Model A's got anything right.
The one rule of thumb with unmeasured tightening is to NEVER use your biggest breaker bar. Not only will it be too tight, you'll need to find someone with a BIGGER wrench to get the thing off!

Kevin in NJ · 03-17-2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Does it mater if you are a 97 pound weakling or a body builder? I for one like torque specs.

Charlie Stephens

No it does not.

I was taught and have changed tires from when I was around 10 or so and I have never been a muscular sports person. The key is you are using your legs to do the force. Your legs are used to lifting your weight of a more than 50 lb body. So the less then 1 foot long crank handle will give you something around 50 lbs or probably more of torque.

It is really quite scientific. It is such that a not so athletic women could change a tire if she knows the right way to do it. You are also likely to be very consistant with the torque.

One day after high school a group of football players had a flat. BTW, I was the nerd they picked on at the time.
So I watched from my bicycle as they could not get the lugs loose.
After a bit, I went over and got them all loose. They were on pretty tight, but pulling up with my legs was all that I needed to break them all free.

Wrenching is about feel. With some of the modern cars you need and get used to modern tools. When working on the A it is a mix of old world feel and modern used of accurate tools. Keep in mind that the length of the wrench is to give the proper torque for the size fastener for normal strength person. That is the torque values for the A fasteners.

Patrick L. · 03-17-2015, 05:54 PM

I use 50 lb/ft and don't use a torque wrench, just a calibrated elbow.
I don't put them on dry.

CT AV8 · 03-17-2015, 06:01 PM

I agree with Bill W and Patrick on the 50 to 55 torque. They will not loosen up. If you use a big 4 way like we used to on 50's cars, you can easily strip the threads on the lug bolts. Don't ask me how I know.

john in illinois · 03-18-2015, 03:03 PM

I agree with 55 #. I have driven a lot of miles and never found a loose lug nut.
A lot of sources say 65# but I think that is hard on the wheels.

John

holdover · 03-18-2015, 03:39 PM

I keep a torque wrench in every one of my vehicles with the appropriate socket and extension. Cheap insurance. years ago I bought a HF torque wrench for 9.95 with a coupon. Looked good and well made, it was my idea to keep it in my F150. I have Snap-on and Craftsman ones also. One of my friends started ribbing me about the cheap HF wrench and said I wouldn't use one of them to torque rods/ mains/heads etc on one of my racing engines I said why not if it is accurate. Had a friend that worked at a local community college that taught a calibration program, so I gave it to him with my SO and Craftsman to check them out. Turns out it was within 1 % of actual torque dialed in, actually better than the SO and Craftsman. Since then I believe it was Car Craft Mag did a test on them and a few others and came out with the same results. So that led me to buy 8 others for my other on the road vehicles(including my '29 Coupe and '29 PU), with the long handle they give excellent leverage.. Now I know some people feel that the only tools worth anything are SO and I agree they are fine and expensive tools, but in this instance the HF works well.. Your mileage may vary...

Dick M · 03-18-2015, 06:40 PM

The Les Andrew's book says to torque the lugs to 64 ft. lbs. I have been using 64 lbs. for 12 years without any issues.

diomed · 03-18-2015, 07:06 PM

I torque anything that has a torque spec. I'm like holdover, I carry a cheap HF torque wrench in the car in case I need to torque my wheels back on. A lot of people laugh at me for it, but my stuff is always right. I guess it's a carry over from working on nuclear subs in the Navy.

C26Pinelake · 03-18-2015, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket1

Torque them with dry threads.

I have always lubricated the threads. Are you saying that is wrong ?
Wayne

Marco Tahtaras · 03-18-2015, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diomed

I torque anything that has a torque spec. I'm like holdover, I carry a cheap HF torque wrench in the car in case I need to torque my wheels back on. A lot of people laugh at me for it, but my stuff is always right. I guess it's a carry over from working on nuclear subs in the Navy.

Yes, but nothing on Model A ever had a torque spec!!! Those that have been written are somebodies assumption based on a series of speculations. If you look at different sources you will find a multitude of choices for each and every item. Which one would you choose?

Don't get me wrong. I believe CONSERVATIVE figures (so called specs) have their place and prove useful. More damage is caused by over tightening (to large a tool for the job) than ever was done by under tightening.

Tom Wesenberg · 03-19-2015, 12:06 AM

I always grease the threads and taper and use the hand crank to tighten the lug nuts. When my elbow clicks it's tight enough.

I've seen people freak out when I mention greasing the threads and taper, but I've done it all my life, and never had a lug nut come loose until I wanted to remove it. I've seen a lot of people fight rusted threads and snap wheel studs due to rust.

diomed · 03-19-2015, 03:37 AM

I wasn't around in the 1920's, but I've read that torque wrenches were fairly new back then. I assume thats why Ford didn't have torque specs for anything. However, there are now torque specs for wheel nuts, head nuts, oil pan bolts, etc, etc. So far, I haven't been let down by the torque chart hanging on my wall that I got from Fastenal 15 years ago.

Most torque charts are pretty close to each other. Several examples for a 1/2" fine Grade 5 bolt:

65 ft-lbs lubed http://www.americanboltcorp.com/tech/techtorque.pdf

64 ft-lbs lubed http://www.repairengineering.com/bolt-torque-chart.html

64 ft-lbs lubed https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-i...ed-Torque.aspx

1020 in-lbs -25-30% lubed = 63.75-59.5 ft-lbs http://www.federalscrewproducts.com/torque-chart.htm

63.7 ft-lb lubed https://www.fastenal.com/web/en/83/torque-calculator

I suppose if you looked hard enough, you could find a torque chart someplace that was way different than the 5 I quickly found. I guess my point is that charts from reputable bolt suppliers are pretty close.

If you want to tighten up fasteners to where you think it needs to be without a torque wrench, I'll still sleep at night. If you want to roll your eyes because I like using a torque wrench, I'll still be your friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

Yes, but nothing on Model A ever had a torque spec!!! Those that have been written are somebodies assumption based on a series of speculations. If you look at different sources you will find a multitude of choices for each and every item. Which one would you choose?

Don't get me wrong. I believe CONSERVATIVE figures (so called specs) have their place and prove useful. More damage is caused by over tightening (to large a tool for the job) than ever was done by under tightening.

Keith True · 03-19-2015, 06:26 AM

A few years ago I worked on a 29 pickup that the owner had torqued the lug nuts on.He had gotten the specs from somebody on the old Fordbarn.He had tightened the nuts to 110 foot pounds.I said you must mean the axle nut,he said no,the lugs.I looked it up and sure enough I found the post advising him on the lug torque.I found out when I went to take the wheels off his truck.I twisted the first lug nut off with very little effort.Most were still tight,but they all had Mae-Wested.Almost all of them broke when I tried to remove them.Now we had to replace all the studs,and if we had to do that,we might as well go to cast drums.Other than that the brakes were in excellent shape.Rotating his tires that day turned into a $1000.job.

03-17-2015, 11:03 AM	#1
Redbird Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Georgetown, TX Posts: 535	Torque wheels What is the recommended ft./lbs to torque the wheels of 31 A?

03-17-2015, 11:17 AM	#2
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Torque wheels 55 Ft Lbs, the crank will do this easily! Chief said, "Tighten them until they go, SCREEEECH" Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

03-17-2015, 11:25 AM	#3
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Torque wheels Using the hand crank/ lug wrench, pull up with your legs.

03-17-2015, 11:27 AM	#4
Redbird Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Georgetown, TX Posts: 535	Re: Torque wheels Thank you Bill.

03-17-2015, 01:59 PM	#5
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: Torque wheels Torque them with dry threads.

03-17-2015, 04:20 PM	#8
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Torque wheels If you must find a spec...find a shop manual from a '60's-eary '70's big Ford or 1/2 ton pickup. Ford used the same lugnut (minus the acorn dome, dropped when Fords got hubcaps over the lugs in '32) well into modern torque-wrenching times. I would get an actual Ford spec and not assume things like the modern "shop manuals" for Model A's got anything right. The one rule of thumb with unmeasured tightening is to NEVER use your biggest breaker bar. Not only will it be too tight, you'll need to find someone with a BIGGER wrench to get the thing off!

03-17-2015, 05:54 PM	#10
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Torque wheels I use 50 lb/ft and don't use a torque wrench, just a calibrated elbow. I don't put them on dry.

03-17-2015, 06:01 PM	#11
CT AV8 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Cos Cob, CT Posts: 295	Re: Torque wheels I agree with Bill W and Patrick on the 50 to 55 torque. They will not loosen up. If you use a big 4 way like we used to on 50's cars, you can easily strip the threads on the lug bolts. Don't ask me how I know.

03-18-2015, 03:03 PM	#12
john in illinois Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,184	Re: Torque wheels I agree with 55 #. I have driven a lot of miles and never found a loose lug nut. A lot of sources say 65# but I think that is hard on the wheels. John

03-18-2015, 03:39 PM	#13
holdover Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: SW Virginia near the Blue ridge Parkway Posts: 674	Re: Torque wheels I keep a torque wrench in every one of my vehicles with the appropriate socket and extension. Cheap insurance. years ago I bought a HF torque wrench for 9.95 with a coupon. Looked good and well made, it was my idea to keep it in my F150. I have Snap-on and Craftsman ones also. One of my friends started ribbing me about the cheap HF wrench and said I wouldn't use one of them to torque rods/ mains/heads etc on one of my racing engines I said why not if it is accurate. Had a friend that worked at a local community college that taught a calibration program, so I gave it to him with my SO and Craftsman to check them out. Turns out it was within 1 % of actual torque dialed in, actually better than the SO and Craftsman. Since then I believe it was Car Craft Mag did a test on them and a few others and came out with the same results. So that led me to buy 8 others for my other on the road vehicles(including my '29 Coupe and '29 PU), with the long handle they give excellent leverage.. Now I know some people feel that the only tools worth anything are SO and I agree they are fine and expensive tools, but in this instance the HF works well.. Your mileage may vary...

03-18-2015, 06:40 PM	#14
Dick M Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ukiah, CA Posts: 477	Re: Torque wheels The Les Andrew's book says to torque the lugs to 64 ft. lbs. I have been using 64 lbs. for 12 years without any issues.

03-18-2015, 07:06 PM	#15
diomed Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 138	Re: Torque wheels I torque anything that has a torque spec. I'm like holdover, I carry a cheap HF torque wrench in the car in case I need to torque my wheels back on. A lot of people laugh at me for it, but my stuff is always right. I guess it's a carry over from working on nuclear subs in the Navy. __________________ kris

03-19-2015, 12:06 AM	#18
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Torque wheels I always grease the threads and taper and use the hand crank to tighten the lug nuts. When my elbow clicks it's tight enough. I've seen people freak out when I mention greasing the threads and taper, but I've done it all my life, and never had a lug nut come loose until I wanted to remove it. I've seen a lot of people fight rusted threads and snap wheel studs due to rust.

03-19-2015, 06:26 AM	#20
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,987	Re: Torque wheels A few years ago I worked on a 29 pickup that the owner had torqued the lug nuts on.He had gotten the specs from somebody on the old Fordbarn.He had tightened the nuts to 110 foot pounds.I said you must mean the axle nut,he said no,the lugs.I looked it up and sure enough I found the post advising him on the lug torque.I found out when I went to take the wheels off his truck.I twisted the first lug nut off with very little effort.Most were still tight,but they all had Mae-Wested.Almost all of them broke when I tried to remove them.Now we had to replace all the studs,and if we had to do that,we might as well go to cast drums.Other than that the brakes were in excellent shape.Rotating his tires that day turned into a $1000.job.