The Ford Barn

Brother Hesekiel · 12-16-2014, 01:38 AM

Let's recap: when the car got its engine at the factory, the engine was stamped with the frame number. The body was then put on the frame, and that number was never visible again, unless you were to lift the entire body off the frame again.

The engine/frame number eventually became the VIN. When now another engine was installed, no number that had any reference to the car or the paperwork was visible anymore. Unless you were to lift the body off the frame, you'd never know if that was the car that corresponds to the VIN on the title. Therefore, people either stamp a visible part of the frame (i.e., under the floorboards) with the VIN, or, less invasive, just mount a plate with the VIN on the firewall, so that the good DMV inspector doesn't have to order the car owner to remove the body from the frame. Does that make sense?

Here's the data plate I fabricated for my Model T Speedster:

I should mention that registering a car to the engine number was common practice in the US in the 1950s and even early '60s. We had plenty of cars where the original engine was gone and no number existed anymore. A plate is an easy fix for that.

CarlG · 12-16-2014, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Hesekiel

Let's recap: when the car got its engine at the factory, the engine was stamped with the frame number. The body was then put on the frame, and that number was never visible again, unless you were to lift the entire body off the frame again...

Actually, it was the other way around. The engine was stamped with a number when the engine was assembled. Then the frame was then stamped with the engine number when the engine was installed in the frame.

The rest is OK.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-16-2014, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

If that is an original number to the block,....it will be a 5 main cam block.
Also, the pads at the back of the block, were the flywheel housing / throttle
assemble bolts,...will have round pads.

This engine is about 60,000 engines after my 28 engine was built, and on my engine Ford already quit using the #2 and #4 cam bearings, so the factory rough turned the bearing surfaces undersize, just to make the cam easier to install. Sure seems like a dumb move to me. Why not just use up the parts as originally designed, then as parts are used up put together engines minus the 5 bearing cam and blocks with 5 bearings for the cams?

Charlville · 12-16-2014, 04:01 AM

When you import a car into the UK and have it MOT tested they are often quite fussy about having a VIN plate, so I just bought one of the accessory ones and rivetted it to the bulkhead just for peace and quiet sake

BILL WILLIAMSON · 12-16-2014, 11:43 AM

On Mineva, I looked up one of the patent numbers, It was for an overhead valve set up, using rocker arms! Another was for the pivoting bell, at the front of the torque tube. All patent number plates "MAY" not be the same, depending on the production date of the car??? Minerva was an Early '30 Standard 45-B Coupe.
Bill W.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-16-2014, 02:33 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

That overhead patent would be interesting to see. I wonder if Ford ever made one to try it out in the shop?

CarlG · 12-16-2014, 04:31 PM

These are listed on eBay for $25 -- They will stamp any number you want on them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stamped-Ford...2cfda9&vxp=mtr

pooch · 12-16-2014, 04:53 PM

When I registered my last model A, they wanted a chassis number, I just plucked one out of a list .

I figured about 4 to 5 million A/s built, over here in NSW .... maybe 1000 still alive and registered in the state... that is about .0045 % chance that the number I picked would be known on the state records.

More chance of winning the lottery.

One old hot rod guy said he buys old blocks that will never see a car again and gets the number off them, and uses that for rego.

For .0045% chance, I could not be bothered .

12-16-2014, 01:38 AM	#21
Brother Hesekiel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: San Buenaventura, Calif. Posts: 362	Re: Firewall Patent Data plate question Let's recap: when the car got its engine at the factory, the engine was stamped with the frame number. The body was then put on the frame, and that number was never visible again, unless you were to lift the entire body off the frame again. The engine/frame number eventually became the VIN. When now another engine was installed, no number that had any reference to the car or the paperwork was visible anymore. Unless you were to lift the body off the frame, you'd never know if that was the car that corresponds to the VIN on the title. Therefore, people either stamp a visible part of the frame (i.e., under the floorboards) with the VIN, or, less invasive, just mount a plate with the VIN on the firewall, so that the good DMV inspector doesn't have to order the car owner to remove the body from the frame. Does that make sense? Here's the data plate I fabricated for my Model T Speedster: I should mention that registering a car to the engine number was common practice in the US in the 1950s and even early '60s. We had plenty of cars where the original engine was gone and no number existed anymore. A plate is an easy fix for that. __________________ Last edited by Brother Hesekiel; 12-16-2014 at 01:46 AM.

12-16-2014, 04:01 AM	#24
Charlville Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: West Berkshire, United Kingdom Posts: 368	Re: Firewall Patent Data plate question When you import a car into the UK and have it MOT tested they are often quite fussy about having a VIN plate, so I just bought one of the accessory ones and rivetted it to the bulkhead just for peace and quiet sake __________________ Kevin Flood West Berkshire UK Member MAFCGB, VHRA, SAH, Brooklands Trust Sporadic progress on My 1929 Sport Coupe can be found here along with my blog http://automotiveamerican.com/

12-16-2014, 11:43 AM	#25
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Firewall Patent Data plate question On Mineva, I looked up one of the patent numbers, It was for an overhead valve set up, using rocker arms! Another was for the pivoting bell, at the front of the torque tube. All patent number plates "MAY" not be the same, depending on the production date of the car??? Minerva was an Early '30 Standard 45-B Coupe. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

12-16-2014, 02:33 PM	#26
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Firewall Patent Data plate question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) That overhead patent would be interesting to see. I wonder if Ford ever made one to try it out in the shop?

12-16-2014, 04:53 PM	#28
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: Firewall Patent Data plate question When I registered my last model A, they wanted a chassis number, I just plucked one out of a list . I figured about 4 to 5 million A/s built, over here in NSW .... maybe 1000 still alive and registered in the state... that is about .0045 % chance that the number I picked would be known on the state records. More chance of winning the lottery. One old hot rod guy said he buys old blocks that will never see a car again and gets the number off them, and uses that for rego. For .0045% chance, I could not be bothered .