What happens now that all the questions are answered?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Don't take the judging standard so seriously. The judging standard is a guide, and not necessarily correct in all cases. Go by the evidence you find on your Model "A," and what you learn by polling the members of your local club and the Ford Barn who have similar Model "A's."

Another point is that fine point judging and reliable touring don't mix. Cars restored to fine point judging are trailer queens, and not reliable.

I for one, can afford to have a fine touring Model "A," but I cannot afford to have a fine point show car, so the judging standard to me is nothing more than a reference book. Knowing my $$$ limitations, I build the cars I restore to my liking.

Frankly, restoring a Model "A" to showroom new condition is not representative of the way they were within a few months after delivery. The Model "A" fueled a revolution in aftermarket accessories, and there were fads like radiator art. There were gadgets galore for the Model "A." Many Model "A's" had some custom paint work that personalized the car to the owner's liking. For examples, many had extra pin stripping, wheel colors and I noticed that many cars had the upper hood panels painted upper body color.

Another concern has to be safety. Every Model "A" that is driven needs to have modifications such as seat belts, turn signals, safety glass, LED tail lights and headlights superior to the originals.

Touring reliability and comfort has also to be paramount for the touring Model "A's." A modern ignition coil, high cranking amp battery, electrical fuses, modified water pump, oil filtration, heater, muffler heat shield, extra padding in the seats, wind wings, and on and on and ......

Quite frankly, much of your entire post is absolutely FALSE, ...and what I highlighted in red I would challenge you against.

You apparently have no knowledge of how the F/P cars are restored. It does make others question just how a stock Model-A Ford was able to survive all these years as a 'stock' vehicle. Even furthermore, when you compare the percentages of the fine-point cars that complete the mandatory tour vs the 'modified drivers', the Fine-Point cars have a much higher percentage rate of completing the Tour without a mechanical failure than the other cars do.

[dumb person]

85 year old dried out rubber hoses and fan belts are reliable? i would replace them as they turn to crumbly dust when used.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by dumb person

85 year old dried out rubber hoses and fan belts are reliable? i would replace them as they turn to crumbly dust when used.

Unfortunately, this is some of the very comments fielded by the 'uninformed' about Fine-point Judging, and the cars that are entered.

First off, it is NOT a requirement, -nor do the majority of the cars being judged have 85 y.o. hoses or fan belt. The majority also do NOT have 85 y.o. tires, tubes, paint, upholstery, oil, lubes, wood infrastructure, glass, ...and the list keeps going on. Heck, most of them do not even have the same parts the vehicle had when it left the factory HOWEVER, nowhere in the rule book is any of this a requirement!! The biggest difference between a F/P car and a Driver is, everything on the F/P has been restored to factory specifications so it works correctly. If that could only be true for the Drivers!!

It is truly unfortunate that the majority of people who make these ridiculous public statements have honestly never restored a vehicle to a winning fine-point level, --and likely never will yet because the do not have the desire, -and probably more closer to the point, they do not have the ability and wherewithal to restore a car to that level. Therefore they choose to give their inaccurate opinions on topics they really have no true knowledge about, ...apparently as a way to persuade others that fine-point is wrong. THAT in a nutshell is what is wrong with our hobby today! The 'Restorers' have done such a poor job of restoring (-and modifying) where the cars are unreliable and that is what the public sees. Folks don't want a Model-A in modern times because their experiences are the majority of them won't Stop, Start, nor Steer well. For those who have ridden/driven any one of the top scoring Fine-Point cars from the last decade quickly realize they do a remarkable job of Stopping, Starting, & Steering as an all original car!

[Roadster62]

The two on the left side of the photo?

Originally Posted by Rowdy

I took a closer look at your pic and it appears atleast 2 of the rivets show signs of tampering sometime in the cars history. Rod

[Roadster62]

That may be true, but how many people have be allowed to sit in a "Fine Point" Model A never mind driving it from the show field into the trailer? They sure look nice, and you can pick one out in a lineup at any AACA meet, but the cost of doing one is off the charts for most people. Bob

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

It is truly unfortunate that the majority of people who make these ridiculous public statements have honestly never restored a vehicle to a winning fine-point level, --and likely never will yet because the do not have the desire, -and probably more closer to the point, they do not have the ability and wherewithal to restore a car to that level. Therefore they choose to give their inaccurate opinions on topics they really have no true knowledge about, ...apparently as a way to persuade others that fine-point is wrong. THAT in a nutshell is what is wrong with our hobby today! The 'Restorers' have done such a poor job of restoring (-and modifying) where the cars are unreliable and that is what the public sees. Folks don't want a Model-A in modern times because their experiences are the majority of them won't Stop, Start, nor Steer well. For those who have ridden/driven any one of the top scoring Fine-Point cars from the last decade quickly realize they do a remarkable job of Stopping, Starting, & Steering as an all original car!

[Charles Coe]

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Even if not a fine point car, a Model A can be restored with everything stock and be a very reliable vehicle. Sometimes they are more reliable than the "modified" and "improved" cars.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Charles Coe

Even if not a fine point car, a Model A can be restored with everything stock and be a very reliable vehicle. Sometimes they are more reliable than the "modified" and "improved" cars.

thats correct or also to AACA quality...

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Unfortunately, this is some of the very comments fielded by the 'uninformed' about Fine-point Judging, and the cars that are entered.

First off, it is NOT a requirement, -nor do the majority of the cars being judged have 85 y.o. hoses or fan belt. The majority also do NOT have 85 y.o. tires, tubes, paint, upholstery, oil, lubes, wood infrastructure, glass, ...and the list keeps going on. Heck, most of them do not even have the same parts the vehicle had when it left the factory HOWEVER, nowhere in the rule book is any of this a requirement!! The biggest difference between a F/P car and a Driver is, everything on the F/P has been restored to factory specifications so it works correctly. If that could only be true for the Drivers!!

It is truly unfortunate that the majority of people who make these ridiculous public statements have honestly never restored a vehicle to a winning fine-point level, --and likely never will yet because the do not have the desire, -and probably more closer to the point, they do not have the ability and wherewithal to restore a car to that level. Therefore they choose to give their inaccurate opinions on topics they really have no true knowledge about, ...apparently as a way to persuade others that fine-point is wrong. THAT in a nutshell is what is wrong with our hobby today! The 'Restorers' have done such a poor job of restoring (-and modifying) where the cars are unreliable and that is what the public sees. Folks don't want a Model-A in modern times because their experiences are the majority of them won't Stop, Start, nor Steer well. For those who have ridden/driven any one of the top scoring Fine-Point cars from the last decade quickly realize they do a remarkable job of Stopping, Starting, & Steering as an all original car!

More of the true experts such as Brent should step forward and challenge the integrity of the statements that are based on fiction rather than fact. The credibility and appearance of the Model A hobby can not and should not be adversely influenced by those that speak in falsehoodsThank you Brent for supporting the true Model A enthusiast. Wayne

[1928Fordman]

Originally Posted by Roadster62

I still don't own a copy of the Judging Standards, and will never do a "Fine Point", just wondering what happens to data and photos of unrestored A's now? Case in point is an early '28 Phaeton that has sat in a local garage for 53 years with a brush paint job over all the original features. Lots of small details that catch your eye, and would be corrected in most restorations. Bob

Why do you not own a copy of the Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards? Please stop what you are doing and go order one already.

[Brother Hesekiel]

Luckily, the Model A hobby is big enough to allow all varieties of enjoyment, from pure show-winning trailer queens to heavily patinated drivers that show their scars with pride. Whatever rocks your boat, there's a Model A section out there that will allow you to do it!

If I had silly money to burn, I'd have a totally scruffy, original paint burned down to the metal Roadster, powered by an all-aluminum Donavan engine with about 100hp, 5-speed, quick change rear, and so on. But even though I can't afford that, I'm having fun every single time I drive my car!

[Mike V. Florida]

Marco must be laughing his ass off at the statement that a fine point car can only be a trailer queen.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Marco must be laughing his ass off at the statement that a fine point car can only be a trailer queen.

"Must be laughing his ass off..."...I know he is laughing his ass off!

Pluck

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by C26Pinelake

More of the true experts such as Brent should step forward and challenge the integrity of the statements that are based on fiction rather than fact. The credibility and appearance of the Model A hobby can not and should not be adversely influenced by those that speak in falsehoodsThank you Brent for supporting the true Model A enthusiast. Wayne

We see this all the time and when we challenge those delusions we are attacked. Go back and look at the thread about headlight reflectors. The new reflectors are shaped the same as from Ford, and while they are not silver that have almost the exact reflectivity as silver and those that bought them are amazed by the light that they give out. Why? Is it because they read that the only way to get bright lights is by changing to 12 volts and halogen bulbs?

And for those that "never have and never will own the Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards" do a search here on the barn and you will find those that felt the same way until they bought it.

Bottom line is it's still your car to do with as you please, just don't continue to spread falsehoods based on old wifes tales.

[Gary Karr]

Gosh, I took my Henry Ford Award fine point Tudor out for a 12 mile run this morning. It starts, stops, and steers like a new car!

[Tom Wesenberg]

I remove all the repro parts I can and use good original dependable parts. Every original coil I've bought at swap meets has worked perfectly. Gotta love guys that change parts and sell good originals at swap meets.

[crumbaa]

There have to be judging standards for those who like to complete to be judges against. If you like fine point competition, do it, if not just make your car what you want it to be, enjoy it the way you want to enjoy it and don't begrudge others who enjoy the hobby the way they like to enjoy it. In the end it is your car and you have every right to enjoy it as you like.

/Tony

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I remove all the repro parts I can and use good original dependable parts. Every original coil I've bought at swap meets has worked perfectly. Gotta love guys that change parts and sell good originals at swap meets.

. I agree with Tom, I use all of the good original parts that I can . Mine isn't a points show car but it starts ,stops steers and runs like a new car .