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10-18-2020, 06:49 PM | #1 |
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Time lapse Model A engine build
Saw this on Youtube be nice if it would go this fast... enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGn-5VoS-m8 |
10-18-2020, 07:26 PM | #2 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Great fun to watch.
Liked their heating coil they used to loosen head & manifold studs. It would have been really easy to paint the oil pan black. Same for green on the intake manifold & flywheel housing. My OCD is showing a little......
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10-18-2020, 07:31 PM | #3 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Worthless
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10-18-2020, 09:03 PM | #4 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
That heat coil is amazing. The local garage that I often help out has one. It works well especially on manifold bolts. Pricey, but once you have one you'll wonder how you lived without it. The next best thing to owning one yourself , is to know someone that does.
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10-19-2020, 04:15 AM | #5 | |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Quote:
I enjoyed the video. Thanks for posting. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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10-19-2020, 08:13 AM | #6 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
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Wonder why they tow strap started it, shouldn't it start via the starter? Am asking since I have never seen a fresh rebuild start. |
10-19-2020, 08:25 AM | #7 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
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10-19-2020, 08:49 AM | #8 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
If you search for "Hagerty" on previous forum posts you'll find a multi-page argument about the bearing clearance choices made by the engine rebuilder they hired to do the babbitt. Tight bearings is the reason for the tow start.
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10-19-2020, 09:26 AM | #9 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
I have participated on Fordbarn for better than 20 years or so, and this has always been a topic of discussion. Originally when Ford authorized shops did the rebuild, they used a large burnishing machine to 'fluidize' the cast bearing material so it would conform to the journal pins. Fast forwarding to modern-era rebuilders, most must compete on a price-point which does not allow the extra time for them to burnish bearings. The alternatives at that point are to set them bearing clearance up looser so the starter can rotate the engine, -or set the clearances tighter requiring mechanical assisted starting until the engine has self-burnished the bearing. Part of the issue is if the bearing clearances are left loose enough to rotate freely, as the engine breaks-in the clearances becomes excessive creating noises the car owner complains about. Since most do not wish to adjust (tighten) the clearances themselves, it is easier for the engine rebuilder to set-up the engine tighter to alleviate the need for adjustment within 500-1000 miles.
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10-19-2020, 09:50 AM | #10 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
“Go slowly for a more harmonious outcome.” ~Old Sioux saying.
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10-19-2020, 10:27 AM | #11 | |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Quote:
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10-19-2020, 12:55 PM | #12 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Yes. The crankshaft was the original burnisher. Even on a rebuild where the crankshaft has been resized, it is an advantage to use the crankshaft to burnish.
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10-19-2020, 05:32 PM | #13 | |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Quote:
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10-19-2020, 09:58 PM | #14 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
How about the red coating (some builders use this) which looks like Glyptal from past decades, that's inside the block ? Can that come off and / or does it block passages in any way?
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10-20-2020, 07:00 AM | #15 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
I have disassembled several engines that were being run regularly, and a few that have sat up for years, including a flathead Dodge I rescued from an overgrown fence row.
Never saw any meaningful amount of rust inside either crankcase or valve chamber. For that reason I would not bother with the red paint inside a new engine.... j.m.h.o.
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10-20-2020, 08:23 AM | #16 | ||
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Quote:
While I have not reviewed the video in awhile, as I recall, they towed the 'tight' engine for 20 feet or so and the engine started. I don't recall any sliding the drive wheels because the engine was so tight, or jumping up & down on the hand crank because the engine would not turn. As I stated earlier, the Ford-approved procedure was to burnish the cast bearings. I doubt there are a handful of us engine rebuilders that do this operation today. For the ones that choose not to burnish as part of the rebuilding procedure, then setting clearances up a little tighter and allowing the cast bearing to fluidize during the initial starting is likely the next best way. Quote:
This controversy (IMHO) stems from the facts that not all engine rebuilders have a good way to clean parts. And, ...not all engine rebuilders take the time to thoroughly clean all the parts. The cleaning process when done correctly takes time and requires a large financial investment to have the proper equipment. I personally have a 3 step process in 3 separate machines that takes it from greasy to clean. It really should not matter whether the cleaning process is done thermally or by chemicals as long as the oils are completely removed from the pores of the cast iron. Residual oils in pores, crevasses, or obscure corners are what causes the varnish not to adhere properly. Get them clean where the varnish can grip into those pores, and you will find it is very difficult to remove it during the next rebuild. Just so we are clear, the main reason for using varnish (-such as Glyptol which is still available) is for insulation and oil control. Rust prevention is secondary or even thirdly. Windage inside of a Model-A engine is pretty rampant which affects the engine oil location and temperature. Having a smooth surface where the oil does not cling to that surface is ideal. This ultimately places the oil back in the pan where it can be cooled. Varnishing also seals the metal pores where any suspended debris cannot attach itself to. This debris can be anything from the cast iron being scraped off of the cylinder walls due to friction, to piston rings being abraded away, to metal wearing off of a camshaft lobe or tappet, -or just general carbon & coked oil. As far as insulating properties, consider what is being transferred into the valve chamber are through the roof and backside of the chamber -and why. While some argue the effectiveness of the insulation, I feel it really boils down to whether it is a value to you, and what level of quality you are seeking for you engine. Are you wanting the best you can have, -or is mediocre acceptable for your engine? . . |
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10-20-2020, 10:09 AM | #17 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Ford turned their engines with large electric motors to bed them in. The motor circuit had a large amp meter that employees on the run in line would monitor to make sure that the current dropped to a specific range of amps that indicated that the engine was indeed ready for service and could be sent on to the different assembly lines there and around the country. This also gave them a chance to check for coolant system leaks and lubrication system function & leakage. If an engine took too many amps to turn or not enough then it was set aside for further repair evaluation.
I don't know how tight they were to start or what was considered acceptable but they undoubtedly had limitations to go by. Most rebuilders set them up to where they can be started and run on a test stand to insure a unit will work for the customer. I'd say it was set up tighter than what most rebuilders would consider as normal if the starter wouldn't turn it over. Lubricant has to have a clearance to do it's job. The clearance should not have to be "opened up" by turning a crank in a too tight no clearance situation. The clearance can be kept to a minimum if proper machining practices are followed. Bedding in processes should smooth out minute high spots in a bearing surface rather than actually opening up a clearance that was not there to begin with. I've seen so many reality TV productions that just have to add drama that I tend to avoid them like the plague whether they are about cars, motorcycles, or just life in general. Last edited by rotorwrench; 10-20-2020 at 10:30 AM. |
10-20-2020, 11:24 AM | #18 | |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
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10-21-2020, 03:24 PM | #19 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Some things I think the video skipped include pressure testing the block for cracks and the process for dialing in the alignment of the flywheel housing. Sealing up the oil pan and the gasket at the front is a process that is, in my opinion, glossed over. What else was not shown that should have?
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10-22-2020, 10:53 AM | #20 |
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Re: Time lapse Model A engine build
Just for my own edumication since I am not well versed in machining an engine. I just want to be clear that 'fluidizing' the bearings means setting the bearing clearance to basically zero and (via the electric motor) 'melting' or 'wearing' the bearings to the correct size using the crank? This way they don't have to cut the bearings to size? Maybe it is just the term that is throwing me off.
I also am assuming that this is the best way to set the bearings (if you can) so that each bearing matches its individual journal/rod? Thanks Mike
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