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Old 05-15-2021, 01:56 AM   #1
joshhirst13
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Default Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Hey guys. Does anyone know of a book/manual I can purchase that shows the step by step process of installing a bell housings/clutch on an 8ba as well as the process of mating up a transmission. I have an 8ba with a bell housings/starter plate & 1939 Ford top loader trans. I just want to make sure I do it right as Iíve never done this before.
Thanks
Josh
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Old 05-15-2021, 03:56 AM   #2
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshhirst13 View Post
Hey guys. Does anyone know of a book/manual I can purchase that shows the step by step process of installing a bell housings/clutch on an 8ba as well as the process of mating up a transmission. I have an 8ba with a bell housings/starter plate & 1939 Ford top loader trans. I just want to make sure I do it right as I’ve never done this before.
Thanks
Josh

Hey Josh! It's actually a pretty straight forward process.

1....Install flywheel. It MUST be a '49-'53 8BA-type flywheel. The six threaded
clutch bolt holes are drilled all the way thru the 8BA flywheels. Earlier
flywheels, these bolt holes are 'BLIND'. Also make sure you haven't forgotten the PILOT BUSHING.

2....Using a 'dummy' alignment tool or a spare input shaft from an old transmission, align the clutch disc as you bolt the pressure plate to the flywheel.



3....Then, you will bolt-on either your STAMPED STEEL (RED) half bell from a '49-early '51 Mercuty with STARTER Plate, or a CAST IRON (BLACK) half bell with it's correct Starter Plate. Note....the cast iron allows 11" clutch use, whereas the stamped-steel Merc piece only allows a 10" clutch.





4....Place your throw-out bearing on the snout (bearing retainer) at front of trans. Don't forget to attach the small return spring at top of throw-out bearing, as seen in picture below, complements of Mac VanPelt.





5....Now, only a simple matter of lifting that heavy trans and stabbing the splined input shaft into the splined center of the clutch disc. Some folks take two long bolts with the hex heads cut-off and hand thread them into the 1/2-bell holes at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock to help support and guide the trans into position. It helps (SOMETIMES) to put the trans in gear to prevent the input shaft from turning as you attempt to mesh the trans/clutch splines. That is a precision fit that sometimes takes a couple of cuss words to make things mate. Make sure you slide the trans all the way up to the 1/2-bell BEFORE running the bolts up tight.

This should get you there, and this last pic shows about what you should look like! DD










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Old 05-15-2021, 04:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Heck of a great post coop.
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Old 05-15-2021, 06:08 AM   #4
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

I'll say!! Outstanding!!
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Old 05-15-2021, 09:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Thanks V8COOPMAN, great process and pics. Do you have the p/n for those cuss words or can't any generic ones work?
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Old 05-15-2021, 09:09 AM   #6
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Coop’s post is great & will be very helpful. Just a heads up, I have the same combination in my ‘35. There was an issue with what bell housing to use to install that set up in a ‘35. I don’t remember exactly why as it’s been a while but I believe I had to use a pick up truck bell housing to successfully complete the conversion of the 8ba with the 39 transmission into my 1935 Tudor. It was my first early Ford project so I don’t remember all the details. If applicable maybe someone else on FB might be able to chime in and give you more specifics. specifics.
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Old 05-15-2021, 09:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Wow. Thanks coop. I was just looking for a book or manual to find the info & you went above & beyond with a full on tutorial. Thanks a lot I really appreciate it.
Josh
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Old 05-15-2021, 12:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Great post DD. As I remember it, you have to use a Mercury clutch disc to match the splines on the transmission (1 3/8" vs 1" on an 8BA?) and an appropriate pressure plate (either a Mercury with a re-drilled flywheel or something else that matches up?).

It's been 30 years since I did this, but with the proper parts from your FLAPS, it all goes together easily.
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

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Thanks V8COOPMAN, great process and pics. Do you have the p/n for those cuss words or can't any generic ones work?

"Darn", "heck" & "poo" (on steroids) ought to work in most situations! DD
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

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Great post DD. As I remember it, you have to use a Mercury clutch disc to match the splines on the transmission (1 3/8" vs 1" on an 8BA?) and an appropriate pressure plate (either a Mercury with a re-drilled flywheel or something else that matches up?).

What would be wrong with using a MUCH-MORE-COMMON 8BA flywheel & pressure plate, along with a "pre-'49" disc for the 1-3/8" spline? DD
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

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What would be wrong with using a MUCH-MORE-COMMON 8BA flywheel & pressure plate, along with a "pre-'49" disc for the 1-3/8" spline? DD
If that's what works, fine. I just know that there has to be some mixin' and matchin' of parts because of the difference in spline size, but don't remember the exact combination. I do remember that it's pretty simple and the parts are easy to find (at least they were 25 years ago).
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Old 05-15-2021, 05:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

V8 set you straight.

I used the 49-51 Merc flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. Clutch is 10 in.
Also used the stock 1940 Ford throw out bearing. LIKE V8 said, "Don't forget the pilot bushing/ bearing" in the flywheel. I used a sealed bearing.

Last edited by 19Fordy; 05-15-2021 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 05-16-2021, 03:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

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What would be wrong with using a MUCH-MORE-COMMON 8BA flywheel & pressure plate, along with a "pre-'49" disc for the 1-3/8" spline? DD
Yeah, that is the same thing I was thinking, as it is whole lot easier to find!
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Old 05-16-2021, 03:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Jeez, you guys are tough. My only point was that you can't do it with all 8BA parts or all early parts.

I believe that this kind of basic information would be valuable to the O/P.
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Old 05-16-2021, 03:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

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Yeah, that is the same thing I was thinking, as it is whole lot easier to find!

Exactly how I did it with the 8ba in my '39 p/u
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Old 05-16-2021, 04:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Ok. So here’s some more craziness to add to the mix. So I have a 1939 3 speed top loader 78-7006. Can I use the gears from the side loader trans (see photos). I’m not sure what year trans it is. I’m having a hard time reading the numbers & deciphering off of van pelt sales what the side loader is.
Also, I’m posting photos of the pressure plates, flywheel, clutches, bell housings, & starter mounting plates that I have. Maybe all these pics will help figure out what I can & can’t use.
Thanks guys. Your knowledge is invaluable.
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Old 05-16-2021, 04:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Iím having trouble uploading photos.
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

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Originally Posted by joshhirst13 View Post
Ok. So hereís some more craziness to add to the mix. So I have a 1939 3 speed top loader 78-7006. Can I use the gears from the side loader trans (see photos). Iím not sure what year trans it is. Iím having a hard time reading the numbers & deciphering off of van pelt sales what the side loader is.

Below is a '40 through '48 "SIDE LOADER" trans, so-called because it's shifting is accomplished via the shift arms on the side, instead of on the "top"! Replace the entire gearset from your "side loader" into your "top loader" trans. It's a great gear set, and is actually the same design as the '39 Ford gear set. Show us some pictures! DD



Side Loader Trans

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Old 05-16-2021, 05:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshhirst13 View Post
Iím having trouble uploading photos.
If you're still having trouble posting, e-mail 'em to me and I'll post 'em for ya. DD

e-mail: roundmotor@outlook.com
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

I called and talked to the people at Fort Wane clutch. They sent me the whole setup for my 53 Merc. EAC mated to a 39 trans that has a 9 1/2 clutch. With the cast bell housing it's a bolt in the clutch plate has the 10 spline and the larger T,O,Bearing. They are the GO TO People in my book.
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Old 05-16-2021, 06:19 PM   #21
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Here's more interesting info. about this topic.
https://www.google.com/search?q=will...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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Old 05-16-2021, 11:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Hereís the 39 trans
Attached Images
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Old 05-17-2021, 12:01 AM   #23
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
"Darn", "heck" & "poo" (on steroids) ought to work in most situations! DD

Sorry I should have said great F%ckin' post. hahaha. Just trying to be a bit family friendly


I stand by saying it's a heck of a great post. Very nice of you and informative. Too often we are not sharing openly.

Last edited by Tinker; 05-18-2021 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 05-17-2021, 08:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Quote:
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Iím having trouble uploading photos.
Here are Josh's pictures! DD

1937-'39 Top Loader




1937-'39 Top Loader




Pair of CAST IRON "8BA" TRUCK 1/2 BELLS & Starter Plate




Big Truck "Hog's Head"




1940-'48 Side Loader




1940-'48 Side Loader




1940-'48 Side Loader




1946 Ford Side Loader via Serial #
























1946-'48 Ford Flywheel




1946-'48 Ford Flywheel


















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Old 05-17-2021, 09:56 PM   #25
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

v8. Thanks for an excellent post plus photos.
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Old 05-20-2021, 01:33 AM   #26
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Thanks Coopman. I really appreciate you posting the pics as well as going through the effort of identifying the components in the pictures & labeling them. So know that the photos have been posted & you can see what I have,
1. Can I use the gears out of the side shifter in my 39 top loader?
2. Can the psi plates I have be reused?
3. Will the bell housings & starter plates I have work with what I have?
4. Can anyone tell from the pictures if my flywheel is ok?
Thanks Fellas
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Old 05-20-2021, 03:39 AM   #27
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshhirst13 View Post
Thanks Coopman. I really appreciate you posting the pics as well as going through the effort of identifying the components in the pictures & labeling them. So know that the photos have been posted & you can see what I have,
1. Can I use the gears out of the side shifter in my 39 top loader?
2. Can the psi plates I have be reused?
3. Will the bell housings & starter plates I have work with what I have?
4. Can anyone tell from the pictures if my flywheel is ok?
Thanks Fellas

Hey Josh....You're welcome on the pics.

1....You CAN use the gears from the side shift in the '39 box. The gears are
identical in design, but.....swap as a COMPLETE SET.

2....If you mean 'PRESSURE Plates', you can't tell if they're any good by looking. They're
reasonable enough, and it's something you don't want to think about
pulling an engine out to do over. Contact Mac VanPelt or Ft. Wayne
Clutch.

3....Yes, but the STARTER Plates MUST be a match for the individual bell that
you use.

4....You can NOT use that flywheel on an 8BA. It looks awful, anyway! Your
flywheel is a 1948 and earlier wheel. You can tell because the LATE (8BA) wheel has the six clutch bolt holes drilled ALL the way through the wheel. Your holes are "blind"....NOT drilled all the way thru. Also, your ring gear appears to be the WIDE (EARLY) one. Good, used 8BA flywheels are available. I'd be willing to bet someone on the 'Barn here might have one to donate for postage, or you can advertise for one in the "WANTED" section here. But NOTE the difference in height between the early and 8BA wheels. Starter will NOT line-up properly with wrong wheel.....whew! DD

EARLY (WIDE) Ring Gear on LEFT




EARLY On LEFT











........
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Old 05-20-2021, 06:31 AM   #28
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

It's really great when a person posts a reply that gives much needed detailed
tech info. on parts needed to answer a question like V8 (and others ) do. Thanks.
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Old 05-21-2021, 07:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Hey Josh....You're welcome on the pics.

1....You CAN use the gears from the side shift in the '39 box. The gears are
identical in design, but.....swap as a COMPLETE SET.

2....If you mean 'PRESSURE Plates', you can't tell if they're any good by looking. They're
reasonable enough, and it's something you don't want to think about
pulling an engine out to do over. Contact Mac VanPelt or Ft. Wayne
Clutch.

3....Yes, but the STARTER Plates MUST be a match for the individual bell that
you use.

4....You can NOT use that flywheel on an 8BA. It looks awful, anyway! Your
flywheel is a 1948 and earlier wheel. You can tell because the LATE (8BA) wheel has the six clutch bolt holes drilled ALL the way through the wheel. Your holes are "blind"....NOT drilled all the way thru. Also, your ring gear appears to be the WIDE (EARLY) one. Good, used 8BA flywheels are available. I'd be willing to bet someone on the 'Barn here might have one to donate for postage, or you can advertise for one in the "WANTED" section here. But NOTE the difference in height between the early and 8BA wheels. Starter will NOT line-up properly with wrong wheel.....whew! DD

EARLY (WIDE) Ring Gear on LEFT




EARLY On LEFT











........

I have another flywheel that is attached to a crank still. Also the flywheel from the previous pictures actually has holes that go all the way through. Maybe neither will still work. I try to submit the photos. Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks
Josh
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Old 05-21-2021, 08:14 PM   #30
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Hereís some pics
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File Type: jpg 36119F4B-D7AC-47A4-9B1A-34137ED6644F.jpg (56.8 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 391F1EB8-222D-46DB-BDD9-D05E77AF758A.jpg (60.0 KB, 11 views)
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Old 05-21-2021, 08:26 PM   #31
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Hereís the flywheel that was posted previously showing that the jokes go all the way through. Maybe Iím not understanding what you meant by the holes.
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Old 05-21-2021, 08:42 PM   #32
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Oh. I figured out the photo posting. My images where too large so I had to make the files smaller to post. Thanks again for all of your help fellas. I really appreciate it.
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Old 05-22-2021, 03:36 AM   #33
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Quote:
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hey josh....you're welcome on the pics.

3....

4.... You can tell because the late (8ba) wheel has the "six clutch bolt holes" drilled all the way through the wheel. Dd


early on left





........

Josh....As you can see in #4 ABOVE, I was referring to the OUTER six, THREADED bolt holes for securing the pressure plate to the flywheel. I WAS NOT referring to the six CENTER holes where the wheel attaches to the crank flange. Notice the REAR side of the flywheels....the side TOWARD the crankshaft. On the REAR side of the 8BA flywheel, those 6 threaded holes are evident. NOT so on the 1948 and earlier flywheel.


YOUR Flywheel...NO Thru-Holes at OUTER Edge






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Old 05-22-2021, 10:25 AM   #34
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Default Re: Mating an 8ba with a 1939 trans help

Oh man. Ughhhhh. I completely misunderstood. Sorry about that. Thanks for explaining. I’m learning a lot. I will create another post to try & find the correct flywheel.
Thanks
Josh.
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Old 05-22-2021, 11:47 AM   #35
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Oh man. Ughhhhh. I completely misunderstood. Sorry about that. Thanks for explaining. Iím learning a lot. I will create another post to try & find the correct flywheel.
Thanks
Josh.

Hey Josh....Don't feel badly! I'm completely 'misunderstood' a large majority of the time. One of the main reasons MOST of us are here is in an attempt to "learn a lot". Is this a great place......or what? DD
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