8 Volt battery

[Smooth_One]

I was given an 8 volt battery by my local starter/genarator repair shop because my starter is hanging up sometimes on my A.
He said they hang up a lot of times because of lack of power so he said try the 8 volt battery and let him know. What do you guys know about this?
My car is still running the stock 6 V system with the cut out switch on the generator.
Thanks.

[René W]

My car is running on 6 volt and the starter is never hanging up,must be a problem with the startermotor,not the battery

[Dick So. Cal.]

Sounds like a bad ground to me. How 'bout too small gage battery cables?
Just thinking out loud. . . . .

Dick

[Smooth_One]

All the cables are original size but I have never had my engine loose to clean the grounds or anything like that so that might be the case. Both the ground strap to the negative side of the battery and the cable from the starter to the positive side of the battery are new and the complete harness from the starter to the generator are new as well. All factory looking and sized wires.
I was just wondering if any of you guys run an 8 V battery on your car to give it just a little bit more power?

[Mitch//pa]

When you say it hangs up?
Does it stick in the flywheel and not return or are you having a slow or no crank issue.
More info needed

[Smooth_One]

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When I first initially hit the starter button it just locks everything up and I have to unbolt the starter and pry it off the engine block to get it to break free.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Smooth_One

When I first initially hit the starter button it just locks everything up and I have to unbolt the starter and pry it off the engine block to get it to break free.

8 volts will not help that problem. Many years ago in my Dad's garage we use to work on tractors. Some of the people had put 8 volt batters in to try and fix the real problem. They are more problems with a 8 volt than fixing the real problem. Could be a bent starter shaft, bad starter drive, bad flywheel ring gear.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Using an 8 Volt battery is like using a higher volt battery in your CLOCK--LOL
Bill W.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Smooth_One

... Both the ground strap to the negative side of the battery and the cable from the starter to the positive side of the battery ...

If you have it hooked up this way, you have reversed the polarity. Should be ground strap on the + side, starter on the - side.

Probably has nothing at all to do with the starter hanging up, however.

[Jim Brierley]

Your stock generator will fail quickly with 8v. I would not use it.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by George Miller

8 volts will not help that problem. Many years ago in my Dad garage we use to work on tractors. Some of them people had put 8 volt batters in to try and fix the real problem. They are more problems with a 8 volt than fixing the real problem. Could be a bent starter shaft, bad starter drive, bad flywheel ring gear.

What George said...

[3.6rs]

I didn't know the existance of 8v batteries.

[Kurt in NJ]

My starter has not jammed since replacing the ring gear, 2worn spots on the old gear

[jthomas6]

Originally Posted by Smooth_One

I was just wondering if any of you guys run an 8 V battery on your car to give it just a little bit more power?

When I obtained my first 'A', I didn't realize the previous owner had installed an 8v battery. I went through two generators, and many light bulbs - before I thought to check the battery (I assumed it was 6v).
I replaced with a proper 6v battery - never had another electrical related problem for the next 3 years I owned the roadster.

[AL in NY]

Like others, I also suspect a ground problem. Try running a heavy gauge wire from the battery frame connection to one of the bell housing bolts near the starter. My starter would hang up occasionally until I did this. 40 year old riveted frame joints could offer a couple ohms of resistance and that is all it takes.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you want to be able to run faster, you double the voltage of your pacemaker.

Do as George said, fix the real problem. BTW, usually a jammed starter drive can be freed up by putting the car in high gear and rocking it back and forth. The forward motion should spin the drive rearward, back out of engagement.

The best use for an 8 volt battery is to send me 4 of them, so I have 32 volts for my 32 volt Delco Light Plant.

[Mike V. Florida]

They work and have worked for years, as a bandaid for other problems. If the shop is actually saying that on the bench the starter hangs and needs 8 volts to work, in my opinion find another shop.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Yes, like Mike said, I was really surprised that any shop would suggest such a thing rather than fixing the real problem.
As mentioned, check the teeth of the pinion, and ring gear, and check the armature shaft to be sure it isn't bent.

[Charlie Stephens]

Ask around (maybe a local club) and find a shop that knows how to work on 6 volt cars. Fix the problem, don't just cover it up and cause other problems.

Charlie Stephens

[Farrell In Vancouver]

Must agree with said here as we experienced the same issues with an 8 volt in a 30' P/U.
8 volt has been used in marine applications and six volt bulbs/generators do not like them. Until we replaced and cleaned the starter wiring, and installed a new 6 Volt, we had more problems than just a slow starter. Check to see the face of the starter and the starter mount are clean and paint/rust free as well.
Good luck!

[Smooth_One]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

If you want to be able to run faster, you double the voltage of your pacemaker.

Do as George said, fix the real problem. BTW, usually a jammed starter drive can be freed up by putting the car in high gear and rocking it back and forth. The forward motion should spin the drive rearward, back out of engagement.

The best use for an 8 volt battery is to send me 4 of them, so I have 32 volts for my 32 volt Delco Light Plant.

Ha ha! I did try putting the car in gear first and rocking it back-and-forth but it did not bust loose I had to take the three bolts out and used a rubber dead blow hammer to knock it loose while my wife made comments from the passenger seat inside the car…

[Smooth_One]

OK you guys are definitely talk me out of going the 8 V route. Would it be a good idea to take all the Engine mounts loose and clean them? I am still using the original float a motor mount.
As I had said in previous posts I did run a new ground wire from the frame to the bell housing bolts and clean both areas very well that I mounted it to.

[MikeK]

Are you using a 'modern' barrel drive? Three manufacturers, two of them junk. All barrel drives require a very firm engine start up to disengage. They resist disengagement by rocking after a no-start and often very reluctantly let go, only after several seconds, with a very mild retarded spark start and idle. If you have one get a new Bendix drive.

To complicate matters, barrel drives have far less inertia travel and do not give 100% tooth engagement with a Model A ring gear. If your ring gear is worn in the usual two engine stop places the incomplete tooth engagement may cause jamming. Try a new Bendix drive.

[Mitch//pa]

If you cleaned the frame to bare metal where the braided cable attaches you should be good... if your not having a slow crank you need to check all what was mentioned.. bent shaft, bendix, flywheel.. many times i had a bent shaft do this.
Cleaning the mounts is not needed..
If you are having a slow crank let us know

[Keith True]

Cleaning the mounts will do no good.If properly installed with good rubbers there is no metal-to metal contact between the frame and the mount.If you have an electrical path through the mounts there is something wrong.

[Smooth_One]

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Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

If you cleaned the frame to bare metal where the braided cable attaches you should be good... if your not having a slow crank you need to check all what was mentioned.. bent shaft, bendix, flywheel.. many times i had a bent shaft do this.
Cleaning the mounts is not needed..
If you are having a slow crank let us know

Well it cranks as slow as original I suppose? lol
It cranked faster after I added the extra ground cable I know that. It just gets stuck as soon as you hit the starter switch and if I listen I can hear the electrical contact between the button arm and the starter switch then the starter bendix makes a "bump" noise then it's time to open the door and get out of the car.... Ha ha

[abachman3]

Borrow a starter from a Model A friend and see if it is the starter or a flat spot on ring gear.

[Ray in La Mesa]

As stated by Tom in post 16, put the trans in high gear (third) to snap it loose. You have much more leverage than in low (1st).

[Jacksonlll]

Be sure to use third gear and always push rearward to back the pinion out of the jam. On a bad one, we pushed the car rearward with the clutch, then popped the clutch and it snapped out. Don't do this going forward.

[captndan]

Just like Tom said. This is an old tractor trick and it usually works. An 8V battery won't fix anything right. Replace the starter drive before looking at the ring gear.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Smooth_One

When I first initially hit the starter button it just locks everything up and I have to unbolt the starter and pry it off the engine block to get it to break free.

Your starter guy should be able to spot a worn/chipped drive gear at a glance and tell you! So next check the flywheel ring gear. Turn the engine with the hand crank and look for worn teeth. The engine always stops in one of two places due to compression effect. So tooth wear is concentrated in two areas. Or, when shutting down, leave the trans in third, clutch down, and just before the engine stops, pop the clutch so the engine stops with the flywheel in a different spot. Now you will have good teeth for the starter to engage with. If this cures the problem, you've found the cause.
If this is the problem, an 8 V. battery is only going to jam it tighter!

[Benson]

```

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

HEAVY grease on the flywheel teeth eliminates a lot of starter locking, even with FUNKY/WORN teeth.
Bill Slippery

[Chippy Minton]

What a strange idea. A six volt system works with a six volt battery adding more and more volts is going to cause nothing but problems.

[LukeCutler]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

If you want to be able to run faster, you double the voltage of your pacemaker.

Do as George said, fix the real problem. BTW, usually a jammed starter drive can be freed up by putting the car in high gear and rocking it back and forth. The forward motion should spin the drive rearward, back out of engagement.

The best use for an 8 volt battery is to send me 4 of them, so I have 32 volts for my 32 volt Delco Light Plant.

I use two 12v batteries and an 8v on my Delco Light plant, but that has nothing to do with this post, lol, it is just easier to get my hands on 12v batteries.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by LukeCutler

I use two 12v batteries and an 8v on my Delco Light plant, but that has nothing to do with this post, lol, it is just easier to get my hands on 12v batteries.

When batteries are used in series, it's best to have them amp hour matched. In other words if one battery is 80 amp hours, then the others should be the same. You should have equal plate area per cell, and all cells should be in equally good condition.

Here's a picture of a starter drive I just saw on ebay. I'll post the link in case someone wants to buy it, but the reason for me posting this picture is to show the non believers that the car needs to be pushed forward in high gear to spin the drive pinion rearward, out of engagement. You might loosen a jammed gear by pushing the car rearward, but you won't spin the pinion rearward by pushing the car rearward in high gear.

Follow the direction of the helix on the drive. Now, picture the car being pushed forward so the engine spins in the same direction it runs. The driver's side of the flywheel ring gear will be moving down, and it will spin the pinion clockwise as viewed from the rear. You can see moving the pinion clockwise will spin it rearward.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/starter-driv...-/172506856081

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

When batteries are used in series, it's best to have them amp hour matched. In other words if one battery is 80 amp hours, then the others should be the same. You should have equal plate area per cell, and all cells should be in equally good condition.

Here's a picture of a starter drive I just saw on ebay. I'll post the link in case someone wants to but it, but the reason for me posting this picture is to show the non believers that the car needs to be pushed forward in high gear to spin the drive pinion rearward, out of engagement. You might loosen a jammed gear by pushing the car rearward, but you won't spin the pinion rearward by pushing the car rearward in high gear.

Follow the direction of the helix on the drive. Now, picture the car being pushed forward so the engine spins in the same direction it runs. The driver's side of the flywheel ring gear will be moving down, and it will spin the pinion clockwise as viewed from the rear. You can see moving the pinion clockwise will spin it rearward.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/starter-driv...-/172506856081

But the usual problem was/is that the ring gear teeth are worn at an angle so the starter gear teeth jam on top of the worn ring gear and wedge together, blocking the starter from turning. Usually in such a case rotating the engine forward only jams it tighter. The A that I had in high school had this problem and rocking it backward in high was the fix. Yeah, it kept the starter drive engaged, but at least it was now free to crank the engine.
I learned to keep it in gear when shutting it off and popping the clutch just before the engine totally stopped turning. This most often resulted in good ring gear teeth being in the right position.