MGB shock questions

[Patrick L.]

I've heard that MGB rear shocks will fit and work on our monsters without any mods.
So, is that really true, and, if so, any certain years ? And, which links/arms?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I've heard that MGB rear shocks will fit and work on our monsters without any mods.
So, is that really true, and, if so, any certain years ? And, which links/arms?

Yes, more specifically you are searching for Armstrong shocks. These were also used on Jags, Austin Healey, etc. Usually they are all over eBay both is NORS & used.

[Keith True]

You will have to do a little adapting for the links-arms.You can carve up some A arms to weld on to make them look more A,Or you can make up some links using A parts,or do as I did,just put a ball on the end of the brit shock arm.You will have to do some heating and bending of the arms to get the right offset.They're not original,so nobody will really care what the look like.They do look old fashioned on the A though.I think they work pretty slick.The guy I did them for thinks they are perfect.

[700rpm]

I never noticed that the shocks on my MG had any discernible beneficial effect. But it was a TD.

[Patrick L.]

OK, thanks. This is interesting. I was about to order a second set of Stipes, probably should have ordered 2 sets the first time.
I may [probably will] try Armstrong's and see what happens. I refuse to use tubes, and, as long they still look 'old timey' they'll be fine for my stuff.
I don't think I'll want to weld on the arms, I'd like to be able to remove them if needed.
Thanks again.

[Hotrodfil]

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I use MGB shocks on the rear. I normally weld an A shock ball in on the opposite side to the original MG one and use a standard model A shock link.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

OK, thanks. This is interesting. I was about to order a second set of Stipes, probably should have ordered 2 sets the first time.
I may [probably will] try Armstrong's and see what happens. I refuse to use tubes, and, as long they still look 'old timey' they'll be fine for my stuff.
I don't think I'll want to weld on the arms, I'd like to be able to remove them if needed.
Thanks again.

I just talked to Stipes today. They aren't taking any more orders, but you can put your name on a list if there are any extras from this current, and apparently last, run.

[springerpete]

I agree with Ray (700rpm). The shocks on my '58 Healey 100-6 are there but I don't think they do too much. Axles feel like they are welded to the frame !

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by springerpete

I agree with Ray (700rpm). The shocks on my '58 Healey 100-6 are there but I don't think they do too much. Axles feel like they are welded to the frame !

There are several ways to tune the Armstrong shocks, ...providing yours are functioning properly (from your description it sounds like they have run dry of oil and are now frozen) The easiest way to tune them is to change the viscosity of the oil. From experience, I can tell you these shocks work great however they just do not have the tuning capability of an original-type shock.

[rusty12]

I have never heard of this conversion before and I don't know what these shocks look like. Could someone post some photos? Thanks.

[Keith True]

If your Healey rides like a tank there is something very wrong.My first experience with those type shocks was on a Healey.The rears were froze up,and the frame mounting point was flexing along with the springs.The owner said the shocks weren't frozen because he could bounce the back of the car up and down by hand.One thing I've found with original brit shocks is the moisture in the fluid is gone,leaving behind a powder.It is not corrosion,but the residue from the dried up oil.I have no idea what the fluid was to do that,but that is what I've mostly seen with them.You will always get a few that are rusted solid like an A shock does,and sometimes they will look like they have old grease in them.You can get plenty of pictures of them on ebay to get an idea of what they look like.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by rusty12

I have never heard of this conversion before and I don't know what these shocks look like. Could someone post some photos? Thanks.

Like Keith said, ebay has pictures of them. {rear]

[zzlegend]

Mine.

[Keith True]

If you want to get them off a junk car you will have to find two junk cars.On all the british stuff I've worked on the shocks that are configured like the A are on the rear only.The fronts all have a shock with a shaft sticking out both ends,and a Y shaped arm,or yoke that reaches out over the top of the ball joint or kingpin.The rears are different from right to left,but that is because the arms are sometimes one peice with the operating shaft.You can't unbolt them and flip them over.They may not all be that way,there are dozens of applications for those shock units.I think I got some off a MG Midget,they're a light car,they worked great on the A.I had put a pair of rebuilt A shocks from Berts on the rear of an old fellows 29 pickup.It stopped the bouncing,but beat him pretty hard.I put the MG shocks on the rear and it was fine.I then used the Berts reduilds on the rear of a sedan and that was fine.They worked correctly,but the empty pickup was just too rough for the old boy.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by rusty12

I have never heard of this conversion before and I don't know what these shocks look like. Could someone post some photos? Thanks.

Here's what they look like. DD

[RobertB]

Finally something I know about! My other collector car is a 1974.5 MGB GT.

The lever shocks work fine if they are in good shape. Contact Peter Caldwell at Worldwide Auto Parts, http://www.nosimport.com/ and tell him I sent you.

He's the leading remanufacturer of these shocks in the US and does a very high quality job.

If you tell him your use, he can reccomend the right shock and adjust the valving to handle the Model A.

I've bought several sets from him. He can supply the shock outright, or will rebuild yours if you find some at a swap meet or wrecking yard.

[juke joint johnny]

So do you have to drill the frame to mount them or will they fit in the original holes ?

John Cochran

[Patrick L.]

This is good info, thanks.
Those mounted shock pics look fine.
I'll check out the website. That looks like a good website with quite a bit to chose from. I'll give them a call and have a chat.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by juke joint johnny

So do you have to drill the frame to mount them or will they fit in the original holes ?

John Cochran

One thing that has not been discussed is the bolt pattern. If I recall, mine are MGA and they have the exact bolt pattern as an A. MGB are close but about 1/4" narrower hole to hole so you might have to redrill one hole. Just my 2 cents.

[wensum]

Here in New Zealand Ford Zephyr Mk3 rear shocks are used as an alternative and are very similar to an MGB shock.
I have a pair that I intend to install, but the arms will need minor bending and I haven't work out yet how to deal with the ball fitting.
It just feels right to be using a Ford compnent on a Ford
Keith

[shedman]

Can anyone advise me where I can buy weld in balls for my shock absorber arms? I normally deal with Snyders but they only seem to do them for Pitman arms.

[Kahuna]

Shedman
I recall buying mine from Mac's

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by shedman

Can anyone advise me where I can buy weld in balls for my shock absorber arms? I normally deal with Snyders but they only seem to do them for Pitman arms.

Snyder's has brand new forged shock arms.

[Bob C]

Snyder's has them.
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/se...024-s&x=53&y=5

Bob

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by shedman

Can anyone advise me where I can buy weld in balls for my shock absorber arms? I normally deal with Snyders but they only seem to do them for Pitman arms.

Are you talking about model a arms or MGB arms for the shocks you just bought.? See your other thread. The MGB arm ball holes are tapered. Those balls from Snyders look straight and for model a arms.

[Bob C]

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Originally Posted by zzlegend

Are you talking about model a arms or MGB arms for the shocks you just bought.? See your other thread. The MGB arm ball holes are tapered. Those balls from Snyders look straight and for model a arms.

They have tapered ones also.
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/se...-4024&x=42&y=6

Bob

[zzlegend]

Thanks Bob. Good to know. I bought mine tapered from a vendor on ebay.

[DHZIEMAN]

This discussion about MGB or MGA shock modification for use on the front of a Model A Ford, there is a lot of information bits that just require a some compilation for me to deal with understanding. I have done my best to think through all that I have read and also add some info, and capture it all in one place. Going this route of replacing the shocks, I am not a point’s guy, I am a driver guy!

1) MGB and MGA shocks have been used to replace the expensive original Houdaille shocks by some creative Model A Ford owners with good results!
2) Some of the replacement after-market replicas are junk and Bill Stipe’s shocks, it appears he is putting people on a wait list to get on a list to make a set for them if he decides to do it.
3) There is another rebuilder source for original Houdaille OEM shocks that are really well done but 245 per unit + $100 core charge + shipping, but if you go this route, you have great rebuilt shocks that are original if you are into that. The rebuilder has a bunch in stock at https://www.applehydraulicsonline.co...ford-1928-1931
4) People who are interested in this British Armstrong shock application on a Model A have lots of questions. Which MGB or MGA shock to use? Rears of Fronts? What year car fits? What about price? What has to be done to make the Armstrong fit? Does the Armstrong shock arm need to be bent to align properly with the shock link? Once the shocks are installed, how do they work? Good? Bad? Do the holes align with those used for the Houdaille?
5) If I want to change the ride what are my options with these Armstrong shocks?
6) Lets take some time here to understand some things:
a. Model A Ford shock mounting centers for my 1930 are around 4 inches
b. I am currently contacting http://www.nosimport.com/ . I talked to Jane about the use of these MGA and MGB shocks on a Model A and she knows they are supplying shocks for this purpose and the guy I really needed to talk to was Pete, and after the 4 day holiday, (Memorial Day) he just had no time. I will call him back in a week or so. I am interested in getting hole spacing as close as possible to 4 inches and I believe there is a hole center difference between the MGA and MGB model Shocks! I am going to pick the one that fits closest to 4 inches, or if there is no difference I will pick the newer (MGB) that were engineered for a little heavier vehicle.
c. What I did find out from Jane is the basic cost of a shock is $77.00 + $30.00 Core charge + shipping. (either for the MGA or MGB Shock! )
d. They can be made adjustable but……………Jane indicated the cost goes up considerably.
e. I know I am going to have to heat the shock arm and bend it to be in alignment with the bottom axle ball mount.
f. I know I am going to have to weld or bolt a similar ball to the Armstrong shock!
g. Pete also told Jane there is a shock absorber link being used by most Model A conversions to MGA/MGB shocks! I will get the name and supplier for that part also. Macs, Snyders or any other I am sure has the part.
h. It also appears by reading all the comments; folks are concerned about which year MGA or MGB rear shock to use. It appears that all that is needed to be known is MGA or MGB. The year is not critical. MGA’s were produced from 1955 to about 1961. MGB’s were produced from 1962 to 1980. Ordering these type shocks from http://www.nosimport.com/ only requires that you specify MGB or MGA rear shocks and if you order a pair, they assume you want a right and a left!
i. Changing the ride – It would appear the el-cheepo method is to adjust oil viscosity! Jane did mentioned that those requesting the external adjustment, it was more for road handling and being able to change it as needed, but that the shock orifices could be set up for a 15% increase in added damping up and down. (at an added cost)
j. And a ball mount has to be added (welded/bolted) to the Armstrong shock arm to make the mounting be compatible with a Model A Ford shock absorber link! Mac’s sells replaceable steering balls that require drilling out the old one and welding in theirs!
k. Also, doing a bit more research on the weight of MG’s vs the model A Ford, The MGB car weight runs around 2290 lbs. The MGA car weight runs around 1990 lbs. My Model A runs around 2265 lbs. At Present, I have no clue what to do with this info, other than to ask questions when I get to talk to Pete. I believe damping ratio is the same for both the front and back of vehicles as they hit bumps at the same speed regardless of weight on the axle.

[zzlegend]

Here is a picture of mine. Hole spacing is exactly the same as a stock model a shock. Beware,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i think some MGA's were 1/4" narrower on the hole spacing. Send me a P.M. if you want more info. I am not going to post on the barn any more, due to, to many,,,,,,,well never mind.

[Floats]

Hi Guys,
I have fitted MGB lever arm shocks to my 29 Chevy Phaeton and am very happy with the result.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by DHZIEMAN

This discussion about MGB or MGA shock modification for use on the front of a Model A Ford, there is a lot of information bits that just require a some compilation for me to deal with understanding. I have done my best to think through all that I have read and also add some info, and capture it all in one place. Going this route of replacing the shocks, I am not a point’s guy, I am a driver guy!

1) MGB and MGA shocks have been used to replace the expensive original Houdaille shocks by some creative Model A Ford owners with good results!
2) Some of the replacement after-market replicas are junk and Bill Stipe’s shocks, it appears he is putting people on a wait list to get on a list to make a set for them if he decides to do it.
3) There is another rebuilder source for original Houdaille OEM shocks that are really well done but 245 per unit + $100 core charge + shipping, but if you go this route, you have great rebuilt shocks that are original if you are into that. The rebuilder has a bunch in stock at https://www.applehydraulicsonline.co...ford-1928-1931
4) People who are interested in this British Armstrong shock application on a Model A have lots of questions. Which MGB or MGA shock to use? Rears of Fronts? What year car fits? What about price? What has to be done to make the Armstrong fit? Does the Armstrong shock arm need to be bent to align properly with the shock link? Once the shocks are installed, how do they work? Good? Bad? Do the holes align with those used for the Houdaille?
5) If I want to change the ride what are my options with these Armstrong shocks?
6) Lets take some time here to understand some things:
a. Model A Ford shock mounting centers for my 1930 are around 4 inches
b. I am currently contacting http://www.nosimport.com/ . I talked to Jane about the use of these MGA and MGB shocks on a Model A and she knows they are supplying shocks for this purpose and the guy I really needed to talk to was Pete, and after the 4 day holiday, (Memorial Day) he just had no time. I will call him back in a week or so. I am interested in getting hole spacing as close as possible to 4 inches and I believe there is a hole center difference between the MGA and MGB model Shocks! I am going to pick the one that fits closest to 4 inches, or if there is no difference I will pick the newer (MGB) that were engineered for a little heavier vehicle.
c. What I did find out from Jane is the basic cost of a shock is $77.00 + $30.00 Core charge + shipping. (either for the MGA or MGB Shock! )
d. They can be made adjustable but……………Jane indicated the cost goes up considerably.
e. I know I am going to have to heat the shock arm and bend it to be in alignment with the bottom axle ball mount.
f. I know I am going to have to weld or bolt a similar ball to the Armstrong shock!
g. Pete also told Jane there is a shock absorber link being used by most Model A conversions to MGA/MGB shocks! I will get the name and supplier for that part also. Macs, Snyders or any other I am sure has the part.
h. It also appears by reading all the comments; folks are concerned about which year MGA or MGB rear shock to use. It appears that all that is needed to be known is MGA or MGB. The year is not critical. MGA’s were produced from 1955 to about 1961. MGB’s were produced from 1962 to 1980. Ordering these type shocks from http://www.nosimport.com/ only requires that you specify MGB or MGA rear shocks and if you order a pair, they assume you want a right and a left!
i. Changing the ride – It would appear the el-cheepo method is to adjust oil viscosity! Jane did mentioned that those requesting the external adjustment, it was more for road handling and being able to change it as needed, but that the shock orifices could be set up for a 15% increase in added damping up and down. (at an added cost)
j. And a ball mount has to be added (welded/bolted) to the Armstrong shock arm to make the mounting be compatible with a Model A Ford shock absorber link! Mac’s sells replaceable steering balls that require drilling out the old one and welding in theirs!
k. Also, doing a bit more research on the weight of MG’s vs the model A Ford, The MGB car weight runs around 2290 lbs. The MGA car weight runs around 1990 lbs. My Model A runs around 2265 lbs. At Present, I have no clue what to do with this info, other than to ask questions when I get to talk to Pete. I believe damping ratio is the same for both the front and back of vehicles as they hit bumps at the same speed regardless of weight on the axle.

IMHO, 'someone' is really trying to over-think this!! This is not re-inventing the wheel or embarking on uncharted waters. It has been clearly laid-out which type shock you need to purchase, and where to buy the shock link ball. While if it is the same Pete I know, he is a great guy but why not apply what you have read first before you see Pete so you have something to show & tell Pete instead of making him give you all the answers.

Now, part of your compilation is inaccurate and confuses the entire thread;
1) it is not just a MGB shock. It is an Armstrong lever shock that were used on other applications, and works well.

2) Bill Stipe IS producing shocks, ...and the after-market shocks that are being manufactured by Snyders & Brattons are not junk. No one is currently reproducing a junk shock for a Model-A application.

3) No one at the present is rebuilding/restoring original Model-A shocks back to factory specifications. They have no way to return the internal part's that are worn back within factory tolerances unless they have CNC equipment to re-machine and make oversized pieces. At the price they charge, the show car guys know where to get good cores and most have the knowledge to rebuild them on their own. The new reproduction shocks can be modified where they will pass Fine-point and at a cheaper cost than rebuilding a worn original.

4) If the people referenced in #4 would put forth the effort to make a purchase, they will no longer have these questions. This is NOT a bolt-on modification.

5)This info is covered in posts above about changing settings and viscosity of oil.

6). If you are worried about the bolt hole spacing, why bother Pete? Why not ask the vendor you are purchasing the unit from to measure theirs for you? They are the one profiting from the sale!

There is more incorrect or 'not quite accurate' comments in the sub-groups in #6 that I just don't have time to address. Maybe others will.



Listen, I am not trying to be difficult but wouldn't this be a better scenario for you to just purchase a set of correct reproduction shocks that are bolt-on? Why I say this is because it would appear to me that you lack the ability and the proper tools to modify the Armstrongs. That is not necessarily a bad thing, just a real-world thing. IMHO, if you must pay someone to do the modifications for you, it is likely a better financial deal for you to use original type parts, and the end results will probably be a better R.O.I.

[1946]

I was fortunate to be given a set of MG B shocks which were declared un roadworthy by a so called suspension service Co. They had replaced the rear shocks on a friends MG as being unserviceable, the replacements being a tube replacement kit. The company wanted to keep the old armstrong shocks, as they can be cleaned and refurbished, and probably refit them to another MG.
I had read that they need to be checked and serviced on a yearly basis, and shure they were dry inside and had no resistance when moved. I cleaned the internals with brake cleaner and left them to dry. Then checked the shafts and bearings for wear, refilled the chambers with motorcycle fork oil replaced the gaskits cleaned and painted the exterior. I bought a set of 'dog bone links' and also from the same company a set of ball attachments to fit the arms of the Armstrong shocks. I have an idea the company is Speedwell in the USA. I modified the ball as they have a threaded end with a nut, which I drilled and fitted a castell nut and split pin for safety.

[denis4x4]

Probably not a fair application as this is a Model A hot rod. I have MG Midget/Sprite rear shocks on the front that were rebuilt to my specs by Peter Caldwell at Worldwide Auto Parts. Noticeable improvement in the ride and handling. I too owned an MG Midget and MGB and agree with others on the harsh ride.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Listen, I am not trying to be difficult but wouldn't this be a better scenario for you to just purchase a set of correct reproduction shocks that are bolt-on? Why I say this is because it would appear to me that you lack the ability and the proper tools to modify the Armstrongs. That is not necessarily a bad thing, just a real-world thing. IMHO, if you must pay someone to do the modifications for you, it is likely a better financial deal for you to use original type parts, and the end results will probably be a better R.O.I.

Agree, if you need to pay someone to modify these Armstrong shocks for use on a Model A then they're probably not worth it. Good to know these are an option in case Stipe ever does stop making his.

[Chris Haynes]

I have Armstrongs on the front of my A. Tweak the arm and weld on the balls and they bolt on. The arms are far to short to line up properly on the rear though.

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

One thing that has not been discussed is the bolt pattern. If I recall, mine are MGA and they have the exact bolt pattern as an A. MGB are close but about 1/4" narrower hole to hole so you might have to redrill one hole. Just my 2 cents.

As and FYI I located 2 MGA rear shocks, the holes are 4 inch on center and fit to my 1930 Model A perfectly with some 7/16th G5 bolts nuts and lock washers

Have a friend with the equipment to align and bend with heat and weld in the ball. That is next.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by M2M

Agree, if you need to pay someone to modify these Armstrong shocks for use on a Model A then they're probably not worth it. Good to know these are an option in case Stipe ever does stop making his.

There is options outside of Stipe shocks in that both Snyders & Brattons manufacture original-looking shocks too.