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Old 11-25-2017, 06:20 PM   #1
rbullockv8
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Default Model B starter broken

This is for a 32 Model B pickup.

Just broke my Model B starter shaft. Stock 6v unit running on 12v. Heard this was a possibility someday. Mine is the post-style starter (post is on the bottom) for use with floor rod to switch, not the pull switch that's used on some '32s. Anyone know if these starters are the same as the Model A starters? I'm thinking to either get it rebuilt and rewired for 12v, or to buy one already done.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:30 PM   #2
Charlie Stephens
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

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Originally Posted by rbullockv8 View Post
This is for a 32 Model B pickup.

Just broke my Model B starter shaft. Stock 6v unit running on 12v. Heard this was a possibility someday. Mine is the post-style starter (post is on the bottom) for use with floor rod to switch, not the pull switch that's used on some '32s. Anyone know if these starters are the same as the Model A starters? I'm thinking to either get it rebuilt and rewired for 12v, or to buy one already done.

Thanks for your help.
Definitely not the same as a Model A although some of the parts may interchange. Yours has a post on the bottom and the Model A was designed to use a switch. I would suggest having yours rebuilt. I have never heard of a starter shaft breaking, it is usually the bendix that fails.

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Old 11-25-2017, 06:42 PM   #3
Keith True
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

Have you taken it out to see exactly what is broken? What I usually see is a shattered Bendix drive when using a 12 volt battery on a 6 volt starter.Usually happens when turning over and the hand bounces off the cable,or finger off the button,or the foot off the switch.Instantly re-engaging it while something is still trying to turn will make a lot of noise and crunching.
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:11 PM   #4
Ian in Mississauga
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

I think the only differences between an A and B are the switch itself and the case. The A switch has 4 holes and the B has 3.
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:20 PM   #5
rbullockv8
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

Well, my eyesight isn't what it used to be, but, yeah, I'm pretty sure the shaft is broken

Shaft looks crystalized on much of the interior, with only a couple of shiny metal break spots. Or I guess that could have happened when it broke and spun against the shaft ends for a second.

I checked the ring gear all around. It's new. No damaged teeth. The broken ends of the shaft go together pretty well, but I know I should check in the bottom of the bell housing for metal shavings and bits. Have to bet a flexible magnetic pickup.
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

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Rebuilder recommendations?
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

That shaft does look broken.I've had people tell me the shaft was broken,thinking part of the Bendix was part of the shaft.I see you are using the modern drive,I think that is a help when turning a 6 volt starter with 12 volts.Yours looks to be engaging good,I've looked at some of those drives that barely engage the flywheel.I don't think what happened to yours has anything to do with the 6/12 volt thing.Something side loaded that starter too many times too long.Now to find what caused it.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:21 PM   #8
Frank Miller
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

If the starter was working ok then you just need to get a new armature. Not hard to replace. If you find a good Model A starter then swap out the armature.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

That was a bad shaft from the jump, the darker area were already cracked well before the final failure..It doesn't appear to be a torsional failure either, just a poor armature shaft that made it 80 years before it shit the bed..
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

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Originally Posted by Frank Miller View Post
If the starter was working ok then you just need to get a new armature. Not hard to replace. If you find a good Model A starter then swap out the armature.
And reconfigure the field windings for 12 volts! Also easy to do.
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

Is it possible the after market bendix was a little to large causing the shaft to flex when it turned? Does the bendix show wear?
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

I just looked at your pictures. your Bendix does look like it was taking a beating. Check the starter alignment also, the holes could be off. This happened to me once (not on a Model A). Sorry I don't personally know any re builders.
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:19 AM   #13
Frank Miller
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

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And reconfigure the field windings for 12 volts! Also easy to do.
You do not reconfigure but replace them. I did one once and needed to heat up the square screws to get them off. I believe you then need to solder some connections. I agree it might be a better idea but I was just trying to help him fix what actually broke, especially if it was working ok.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

Locally here in the Chicago area we use a shop that is an alternator/generator rebuilder. He converts them from 6 to 12 volts. He mostly does truck generators/alternators. Look for one in the area... they're out there.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:47 AM   #15
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

If the armature itself is still good, why not just replace the shaft?
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:43 AM   #16
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

My post-starter has an aluminum body, as I thought all 33-34 B's had. Never saw a post starter on a '32, now I have!
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Miller View Post
You do not reconfigure but replace them. I did one once and needed to heat up the square screws to get them off. I believe you then need to solder some connections. I agree it might be a better idea but I was just trying to help him fix what actually broke, especially if it was working ok.
Frank, With respect and not wanting to even appear to be contradicting you but it seems we have a different approach. I don't replace the field coils, I reconfigure them so long as the insulation on them is serviceable. I've done it many times without a failure.
I understand you were focusing on fixing what was broken. I was focusing on the longer term - try to prevent it happening again after the fix.
Between the two of us, it would be fixed and not break again - the ideal outcome.
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Old 11-26-2017, 05:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

Okay, I'm getting confused by the options.
1. It sounds like the armature is separate from the shaft and can be swapped with another shaft? I thought armature and shaft were sort of one unit, and that Frank Miller was suggesting replacing the shaft/armature with one from a Model A.

2. Synchro909: I'm not sure what you mean by "reconfigure" field coils. Is this a series/parallel wiring change? I understand swapping them out for 12v replacements, but not reconfigure.

3. And, Jim Brierley: As far as I know, this is the original starter on this roadster PU, and it's heavy steel. The steering column has the plug in place where the starter cable would go for a pull type switch, and I can remember back to the early 1950s that it always had a foot starter switch (my dad bought the truck in 1939). My frame/bell housing serial number puts its manufacture in the August 1932 range: B / BB 5144011--5146668 August 1932, and I thought I remembered Ford changing from the pull starter switch to the foot starter switch in June or July '32? Not sure. I didn't know about aluminum-body starters.
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Old 11-26-2017, 06:05 PM   #19
rbullockv8
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

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Originally Posted by kimlinh View Post
I just looked at your pictures. your Bendix does look like it was taking a beating. Check the starter alignment also, the holes could be off. This happened to me once (not on a Model A). Sorry I don't personally know any re builders.
Wondering how you check the alignment? I did rotate the flywheel a full turn to check all the teeth on the ring gear. Looking in through the starter hole, the ring gear is set back on the flywheel maybe an 1/8" or less all the way around (consistent setback, so it doesn't wobble). And the starter mounting bolt holes on the bell housing are in perfect condition, as is the surface of the mounting area--nothing to throw off the starter alignment. I'm not sure how you would go about making any kind of adjustment.

So my question is: How does one check the alignment of the gear mesh?
I'm attaching 3 photos of the drive gear. I have not cleaned these in any way. While they do appear a little rough on the faces, there is no evidence they are bottoming-out on the valleys, nor are they showing a variable alignment on the faces. One photo of the mounting surface, and one close-up of the ring gear.

Advice appreciated! Thanks.
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Old 11-26-2017, 06:49 PM   #20
Keith True
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Default Re: Model B starter broken

The shaft is part of the armature.Over the years that shaft might have been bent,rebent,pounded with a hammer,something might have gotten between the gears and bent it,could be one of a dozen reasons for it to break.The starter may have stayed engaged while someone ran the engine any time in the last 85 years.If it was mine I would replace the armature,redo the field coils to 12 volt,and use it.I really don't like the way they slam into the flywheel when engaged using the 6 volt setup.I never heard of an aluminum housing on a A or B starter either.That's new to me.
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