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06-13-2022, 08:01 PM | #1 |
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Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Need help to set up timing on Model B '33 4cyl Engine in a Model A.
It has the Model B block with C head and B timing gear cover but with stock A distributor. We found TDC with piston at top of stroke, and timing gear has a dimple that is in sync with TDC, etc.. The engine appears to be too advanced at full retard. What should be done to get the typical model A sound at full retard ? Should the cam be turned in a particular direction by feel to get the typical full retard model A sound? |
06-13-2022, 08:32 PM | #2 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
I had the same problem a few years ago and Fordbarn came to rescue. Time it the usual way with the timing pin only set the spark level half way down not full retard.
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06-13-2022, 09:08 PM | #3 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Thanks, that makes sense to comport with the B engine 15 deg or so offset from TDC (or approx 1/3 to 1/2 of the distrib body notch opening).
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06-13-2022, 10:50 PM | #4 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
As above or you could use a Model A timing gear cover. The "C" head is slightly higher compression than an A head so you will have plenty of advance. To overcome that, you could set the timing a couple of degrees retarded by putting the lever a notch down when setting the timing.
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06-14-2022, 06:56 PM | #5 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
The B timing gear cover has an elongated boss where the pin is kept, the A cover has a round boss. With the pin engaged with the cam gear it is at 19* BTDC with the B cover. The A dist should be set at TDC.
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06-15-2022, 11:57 PM | #6 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
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06-17-2022, 08:39 AM | #7 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Sooo...... If I'm understanding this correctly.....
There are 11 notches on the spark advance lever. One notch down on the spark advance lever equals 4° advancement of ignition timing. For timing a model A, with Model B engine, with model B cam cover, and Model A manual distributor, the adjustments should be as follows: 1. Use timing pin to find dimple in cam gear. (This will be approximately 19° advanced from TDC....which would be correct for using a model B centrifugal distributor.) 2. Lower spark advance 5 notches down. (?) 3. Set point gap to this setting. #1 cylinder. 4. When starting, bring the spark advance to 1 notch down as, normal. 5. For driving, use spark advance as normal. comments welcome eog ============================== Note: I see some here don't know how to bring up the degree symbol... ° Num Lock on press and hold ALT key enter 0176 on the numbers pad
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06-17-2022, 09:33 AM | #8 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Thank you Ec. old guy for summarizing it better than I. That's the way I understand post 2, by moving the spark lever down approx. 1/2 way, or 4 or 5 notches, and position the rotor to distrib (plastic) body at the #1 cylinder contact. The points gap would be set at the high cam lobes with the lever down as well.
Last edited by SAXBY2; 06-17-2022 at 09:39 AM. |
06-17-2022, 09:47 AM | #9 | |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Quote:
I believe the reason for one notch down on start, is to make sure the spark plug fires after TDC....or, is that correct? eog
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06-17-2022, 10:44 AM | #10 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
EOG, not sure it would make much difference with 4 or 5 notches to start the process. The problem is that the B engine with C head and timing hole in elongated cover boss for the B block was designed to use the auto advance distributor with the ability to fine tune the housing by the side notches. By timing with the lever initially half way down , fine tuning the rotor position by ear or moving the spark lever and resetting the rotor that way may achieve the proper running engine sound with lever all the way up. With a high compression head, the spark lever doesn't seem to need as much movement range as compared to a stock head.
Initial timing with the lever one to 2 notches down the quadrant didn't provide enough retard, hence the questions in post 1. Last edited by SAXBY2; 06-17-2022 at 10:53 AM. |
06-17-2022, 04:40 PM | #11 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Read the sections of Model A/Model B over at www.fordgarage.com.
I sort of went through similar in setting up a Model B engine/Gordon-Smith compressor - and wanting to maintain the centrifugal advance of the Model B (An air compressor SHOULD self adjust for best power/economy depending on the "unloading" of the compressor.) My path forward was to use the Model A block - find a Model B timing cover - and use a Model B Distributor. Effectively converting the Model A engine to Model B timing. Vince Falter at above site goes through the "style variants" of the various timing covers - including the cover which depending on drilling could be used on either Model A or Model B. https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/timingcovers.htm At any particular time SOMEONE is selling what they think is a Model A timing cover on Ebay, but in actuality is a Model B cover. I wonder how many people struggle with their Model A manual timing after the purchase? Joe K
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06-17-2022, 05:08 PM | #12 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Thanks for the input. Am familiar with the Falter site, but there is no apparent info. on how to simply set timing for those not wanting to use a B distributor but with other engine components Model B .
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06-17-2022, 06:55 PM | #13 | |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Quote:
A model A timing cover can be brought to your door from Ebay for less than $25. The span from full retard to full advance on the Model A is about 40 degrees crankshaft. The span for the Model B is about half of that (Ford learned that the adjustment range of the Model A was entirely too large and narrowed it for the Model B) So adjusting your advance to about half - as others have advised - seems a suitable "mitigation." Maybe the $25 can fill your gas tank - um. Maybe not... Joe K
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06-17-2022, 06:56 PM | #14 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
IMO, the reputation the B engine has for cracking is at least in part due to the lousy B distributor. I have 3 of them and NONE of them advance like they should (one not at all even though things are free). From that, it seems to me that they are unreliable in getting the correct amount of advance and as we know, an engine running retarded will run hot. That heat causes cracks. Sure, thinner castings might contribute but I think the root cause is the VERY ordinary distributor.
The 3 B distributors I have stay on the shelf where they can't cause any trouble.
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06-18-2022, 12:55 PM | #15 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Question:
If you have a Model A timing cover on a model B engine, wouldn't the engine mounts be a bit different, and result in another issue to deal with? eog
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06-18-2022, 03:02 PM | #16 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Putting a B engine in an A frame requires that you fabricate or find the different rear motor mounts. I fabricated mine because I could not find the right motor mounts. I am installing the float A motor mounts the modern front mount and had to move the engine forward 5/8 of an inch to get the proper alignment.
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06-18-2022, 07:32 PM | #17 | |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Quote:
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06-19-2022, 01:27 PM | #18 | |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
Quote:
Joe K
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06-19-2022, 01:36 PM | #19 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
[Duplicate]
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06-20-2022, 08:29 AM | #20 |
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Re: Model B Engine timing advice in Model A
I am using a B transmission thus the need to modify the rear engine mount. All this is a result of not leaving it the way Henry meant for it to be!!!!!!!
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