New Rear Wheel Well Panel Question

[Conaway2]

I will be installing new patch panels in the rear wheel wells of my 1929 Sport Coupe project. How are the bottoms of the patch panels supposed to be installed ?

The patch panel have a ~ 1.5” lip bent at a 90 degree angle at the bottom - is this supposed to be bent upwards to fit inside the rear subrail ?

Many thanks - Jim

[KenBolton]

If I remember correctly mine fit under the sub-rail. If this is incorrect it should stimulate a response.

[Oldbluoval]

Actually, the bottom edge is spot welded along the metal subrail with only about 1/4”@ 90 degrees. You can bend it up but be careful to not interfere with the body block
However you don’t need 1 1/2” inches…trim to 1/2” or so

Also, I’m not a big fan of replacing the entire panel. I generally replace only what’s required by rust or damage. but usually 2 to 2 1/2” in the well because that lets you above the top of the subrailI don’t cut out original steel unless necessary. But you’d have to match up the body embossings if you do it that way.

[Conaway2]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

Actually, the bottom edge is spot welded along the metal subrail with only about 1/4”@ 90 degrees. You can bend it up but be careful to not interfere with the body block
However you don’t need 1 1/2” inches…trim to 1/2” or so

Also, I’m not a big fan of replacing the entire panel. I generally replace only what’s required by rust or damage. but usually 2 to 2 1/2” in the well because that lets you above the top of the subrailI don’t cut out original steel unless necessary. But you’d have to match up the body embossings if you do it that way.

Thanks Oldbluoval. The rear wheel well panels are badly rusted almost to the top and the subrails at that point also need about 10” to be replaced. Much as I hate to cut out original sheet metal, I’m going to have to replace the entire wheel well panel. There’s enough solid metal left in the subrails that I won’t need to put new half-subrails in, but will need to patch 10-12” on both sides. This car came from West Virginia, so I suspect the rust is from road salt in the 50s and 60s when it was driven there by the previous owner.

Jim

[rotorwrench]

Ford likely had a way to crimp the bottom edge over the lower outside flange of the body sill channel. Whatever they used likely spot welded during the crimp process. This is another process that I haven't seen on film yet. I have seen photos on Vince's Ford Garage site that were during the Budd development for the model 40A and 40B roadster and it shows a model 40B with the body sill channel attached to the body quarter panel so I figure that there is a very good probability that those parts were joined before final assembly of the body. It would make sense in the way Ford jigged the bodies for final assembly. It may have allowed for easier riveting on some of the rivets for brace attachment and such.

[Dennis Pereira]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Folded and crimped is the way I did it on the bottom edge. I left tabs on top of the repair panel drilled to slip over the fender bolts to hold while welded. Photo of photos so not real clear last photo you can see the tabs maybe.

[Oldbluoval]

If you leave metal sandwiched between the repair panel and the original metal….you looking for moisture to gather/accumulate between panels. Not good
The folding and crimping is not original but whatever works for you. Can’t tell a lot from above pics

[Ed in Maine]

I understand what you said about being very rusty but if the fender mounting studs are good, I would cut the original panel about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch below the studs. This way you don't have to worry about getting the new studs accurately placed. Like Oldbluoval mentions corrosion can be a problem. I like to use a "vice grip" type tool to put a step in the sheet metal and insert the new panel behind the original metal. Then seal weld the outside of the seam. Tac the inside of the panel every couple of inches for added strength. Then, after painting, caulk the inside to prevent any moisture from getting into the seam. Grind down the welds smooth on the outside and fill with body putty. Good luck, Ed

[Dennis Pereira]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

If you leave metal sandwiched between the repair panel and the original metal….you looking for moisture to gather/accumulate between panels. Not good
The folding and crimping is not original but whatever works for you. Can’t tell a lot from above pics

That's one of the reasons they rotted along the bottom the fold trapped dirt and moisture. If I remember correctly there was a couple of spot welds.

[rotorwrench]

I always butt weld panels using magnets, clecos with strips of metal, or screws with strips of metal to hold stuff together for tacking. The flange idea makes welding it more complicated than it needs to be and little holes are easy to weld shut. The flange doesn't allow for much curve in a compound curved panel either.

[Oldbluoval]

I find flanging good on straight runs like top of patch panels. But you need to seal those overlaps or you’re right back with sandwiching. Body or seam sealer can be used when you can access the reverse side.
Flanging also adds some stability to the area in that the shape adds strength to the run.
I do prefer butt welding too. I mig more than tig albeit tig better. I have to say that I do often cheat and put copper or carbon on the reverse side where I can; prevents blow thru. A lot of welders frown on that as it’s know as slugging I think!

[rotorwrench]

Nothing wrong with that. I still use a copper backer now and then. I still use oxy/acetylene aircraft torches for the thin stuff. I can control the heat pretty well with the right tip for the thickness of metal. I have to skip around to prevent warpage but I'm in no hurry. It works for me since I have so many years of experience with it.