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03-08-2011, 04:44 PM | #1 |
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U-Joint Prepacking
This is what it looks like to prepack a U-joint when you don't want to have to fill the cavity by using a grease gun. I was able to get the entire 14 oz. tube in, except for an inch at the bottom of the tube. I worked some heavy oil into the U-joint parts first, then packed it solid with grease. I then installed the steel cap with a gasket on each side of the flange and used some of the remaining grease to coat the cap. Why is it that all the repro U-joint cover bolts have the holes for the castle nuts drilled about 2 threads to close to the head of the bolts? |
03-08-2011, 07:03 PM | #2 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
I never took one apart that had thet much grease in it....
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03-08-2011, 09:15 PM | #3 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
What would happen if one got TO MUCH GREASE in the U-joint cavity?
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03-08-2011, 10:39 PM | #4 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
With original bearing style it would move into the trans, lube the speedo cable, if you installed the "sealed" type of bearing it will find the path of least resistance --and get hot
A wheel bearing that is filled with grease can overheat, I have seen seals pushed out, grease on the brakes, heat marks on the bearings ---the hub was full, but the heat drained the grease from the bearing, but with the original type seals on the A (none)it would probably just push the excess out. When I was installing the new spindle bearings on my crankshaft grinder it specified 4 grams per bearing --and some limited time no load run in. |
03-08-2011, 11:02 PM | #5 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Wow Tom, when you put it that way, it sure seems like a lot of grease!
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03-09-2011, 12:24 AM | #6 | |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
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Quote:
Pluck, as far as too much grease, this is how full I did my 28, except I used the original grease gun on the zerk and had to refill the gun about a dozen times, until the grease came out the speedometer gear opening. No Problem since I filled it 5 years ago. It just drives me crazy to see dry parts that should be greased, such as all the brake rod pins, etc. |
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03-09-2011, 01:05 AM | #7 | |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Quote:
I've never seen a problem with too much grease, but I've seen plenty of wear from too little grease and oil. This was the U-joint on a 1930 AA and the splines of the U-joint were rusted tight with the driveshaft splines. Had to heat it red hot and beat it off with a hammer. |
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03-09-2011, 02:44 AM | #8 | |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Quote:
" this item is NOS showing some signs of shelf wear. We haven't tested it" |
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03-09-2011, 07:18 AM | #9 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Tom, does your wife ever comment on your soft hands?
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03-09-2011, 08:55 AM | #10 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
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03-09-2011, 03:13 PM | #11 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Did you consider Corn Head Grease?
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03-09-2011, 07:04 PM | #12 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Tom,I am a fan of Mystik grease. Always used in my combines and tractors.
It is great for bearings but not so much for u-joints. I found that the spinning u-joint makes a grease cavity and limits the lube to the joint and will not migrate well to the driveshaft bearing. This is especially true with sealed transmission bearings.I use molly grease mixed with 600W so it just flows off a screwdriver. I will be switching to John Deere corn head grease when I tour as it is convenient. It is a flow able grease also. |
03-09-2011, 08:46 PM | #13 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
That u-joint is still good!
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03-12-2011, 11:35 AM | #14 | |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Quote:
those Bearing Buddies on the hubs that actually pack the bearings full plus fill the cavity around the axle shaft where it is completely full of grease? My experiences has been that these wheels/hubs generally spin very fast due to the small wheel size which should create severe overheating by their nature. I am also thinking that many of these wheel bearings would be "filled with grease" completely from inner to outer bearing when using that Bearing Buddy yet they do not seemingly overheat, --so what is the difference or what am I missing? |
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03-12-2011, 01:39 PM | #15 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Browsing the V8 forum I saw a post that was directed to the Model A section regarding U-joint lubrication. Sorry if I flip out on this post but it is about the craziest thing I have seen on this site.
This still seams to be a misunderstood part of the car because there have been numerous posts in the V8 section about proper u-joint lubrication. I assumed that the Model A guys had pretty much covered this topic and know that The u-joint is not greased in a conventional way and the grease fitting nipple is actually a nipple for a liquid lube gun. Properly lubed the u-joint requires a liquid lubricant, Ford called it "soda grease" which for various unknown reasons appears to be a slurry of used engine oil and powdered sulfur. This is a heavy liquid that best replicated with the 600W gear lube being marked by vendors today, others have had good luck using another low speed liquid lube John Deere tractor "corn head grease" . In any case the picture posted is the best example of the improper lubrication of a u-joint. The u-joint is liquid splash lubed and the liquid also provides the lubricant to the speedometer drive gear and the upper drive shaft roller bearing. Greases are not noted to be a flowing substance until the temperature escalates to a point where they have a degree viscosity. Usually to generate heat you need friction and if there is friction involved there is a lack of lubrication. This would mean that the u-joint was run dry and generated heat to cause the grease to flow, by that time the damage is started. Clean out all that grease, make sure that you have a new torque tube driveshaft seal installed, a good set of clam shell gaskets and refill your u-joint with about 3-4oz. of 600W lube or similar and you should be good to go. This method will splash lube the u-joint in a constant bath of lubricant and perpetuate the u-joint life.
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03-12-2011, 02:03 PM | #16 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
The corn head grease is viscosity 0 based on urea ...just like the Chevron Multifak EP 0. I am trying Chevron Multifak EP 00 lithium based. The cornhead is not fluid until motion occurs so I am concerned about the "U" joint...that is a cavity forms around the spinning U joint. EP00 stays fluild all the time and if it does not leak out of the ball and socket (felt/corkseal) I think the thinner material is better....but I have not run the assembled ball and socket BUT I have packed the shaft bearing and speedo gear...holding great and does not drip(i have the torque tubeo pen and laying downward)the Multifax is waterproof ... avery modern long wear grease specific for bearings etc.
PS do not mix greases of different bases... that is do not mix urea with lithium etc. |
03-12-2011, 02:06 PM | #17 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Brent, it is what I was taught in school, and from personal observation, the hubs packed full have little grease inside the actual bearing, and it is black, and smells burned, when I was talking to Storm Vulcan about replacing the spindle bearings on my crankshaft grinder I was cautioned about using too much grease ---that it would overheat.
So I googled timkin bearing lubrication -- http://www.timken.com/en-us/solution...n_Part1of3.pdf Perhaps the bearing buddys allow grease movement, every thermal cycle the damaged grease is repleneshed with enough fresh grease to have acceptable life, and still I think the bearing life isn't the same, I don't know of many boat trailers that get hundreds of thousands of miles like a car, but I know of boat trailer owners that have had several wheel bearing failures on their trailer, but never on their car, Wal Mart has boat trailer bearing sets, but not car bearing sets --they deal in volume My theroy on U-joint lube is that the grease is there to keep the leakage past the trans bearing in contact with the U-joint ---it fills the space, and helps seal the ball coupling. --I just keep filling the trans, pump a few strokes in the fitting for the ball socket seal |
03-12-2011, 02:16 PM | #18 | |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Quote:
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03-12-2011, 02:26 PM | #19 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
I was told by someone, that the trans fluid leaks into the u-joint cavity and mixes with the grease to become more fluid. All of the books and manuals that I have say to use grease on the u-joint.
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03-12-2011, 03:11 PM | #20 | |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Quote:
I do agree it looks like a lot of grease in the joint Tom is packing but, I also prepack Model A joints, just not to that extent. |
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03-12-2011, 07:18 PM | #21 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Ford specifies in the services bulletins for the AA trucks to pre pack the joint with 8 ounces of grease.
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03-12-2011, 08:03 PM | #22 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Once again,if you have sealed transmission bearings you should rethink using # 2 grease in the u-joint.
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03-13-2011, 11:10 AM | #23 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
[QUOTE=James Rogers;175053]What about the boat trailers that are used on the sport fishing circuit? These trailers carry boats upward of 3000 pounds for tens of thousands of miles and are subjected to being submerged in water over and over without any bearing failures using the bearing buddies. I fished this circuit several years and never had a competitor fail to make a tournament because of a failed wheel bearing. The boat and travel trailers that have bearing failures many times are because these trailers sit for sometimes months or years with little or no maintenance to the bearings. I would never own a trailer without these devices or at least repacking the bearings every time I pull my trailer any distance over 100 miles.
Keeping Trailer Wheel Bearings Going Round And Round By William D. Siuru, Jr., PhD, PE [Learn More] Repacking wheel bearings on modern trucks, SUVs and RVs might be beyondthe capabilities of many do-it-yourselfers mainly because it usuallyinvolves disassembly and assembly of sophisticated disc brake systems. Incomparison, repacking of wheel bearing on trailers is relatively easy.Bearings on today’s vehicles don’t usually have to be touched until a brake job is done. This is not the case with trailers. Wheel bearings on trailers with regular sized tires should be repacked every 10,000 miles on trailers used regularly, especially if they are heavily loaded. You can get by with repacking every two years on trailers that are lightly loaded and do not see many road miles. On trailers with tiny wheels like boat trailers they should repacked as often as every 2,000 miles. The smaller the wheel, the faster the bearings spin, and the greater the need for goodl ubrication. If the trailer has a Bearing Buddy and an E-Z Lube grease cap, bearing problems are less likely to leave you stranded. The Bearing Buddy typically covers the end of the spindle and there is a grease gun fitting in the center. Because fresh grease only gets to the outer bearing, wheels still should be pulled and repacked normally to grease all bearings. In contrast, the E-Z Lube hub also has a grease fitting which now includes an orifice that routes grease to both the inner and outer bearings. Repacking still needs to be done, but at about half the normal frequency. With both, you can get enough grease into a hot bearing to get you home or a service facility, so carrying a greasegun in you tool box might be a good idea. It could prevent ruining a wheelspindle. ---found on "new car buying .com" It is obvious that even with the Bearing Buddy trailer bearings require a reduced srevice interval, with proper lubrication in other applications the service interval can be much longer ---up to 100 times or more, for instance the rear wheel bearings on a Mercedes of the 80s using Timkin bearings , when the whole housing is filled with grease the life is about 50,000 miles, and there is grease all over the brakes, and failed bearings, properly packed the life is in excess of 300,000 miles, where I work the bearing packing job is expected to last the life of the rotors without failure, and with many customers that put in excess of 50,000 miles a year on their car it is easy to know what works, and what fails. With a model A the sizes of the bearing surfaces in relationship to the loading allows it to survive much abuse. |
11-05-2019, 07:31 AM | #24 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
I'm digging out this old thread because I'm currently rebuilding my rear axle and also had to take down the torque tube and therefore also opened the U-Joint.
Sadly I've not taken a picture but what I found is a lot of grease inside the u-joint housing, next to the grease fitting but nowhere near the the u-joint... I think I could say that I was lucky and the oil from the transmission leaked into the U-joint housing because the grease didnt lubricate a lot. As I want to put all parts together, I then asked me a next question, if I use a grease gun, how should that grease get to the roller bearing if its hardly getting to the u-joint? what about the INNER DRIVE SHAFT SEAL? What is is there fore? is it to keep the oil from the rear end flowing into the u-joint? Or keeping the grease/oil from the u-joint away from the rear end? Maybe I was lucky there too and the original seal was leaking an the roller bearing got at least some lubrication from the rear end? is grease the right choice? or wouldnt something more liquid be better? |
11-05-2019, 09:44 AM | #25 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
How come I can't see Toms pictures of the u-joint? Jack
Last edited by jhowes; 11-05-2019 at 09:45 AM. Reason: Spelling error |
11-05-2019, 10:23 AM | #26 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
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Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-05-2019 at 10:31 AM. |
11-05-2019, 10:30 AM | #27 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
I kind of miss Dick Spadaro. I didn't always agree with him but he was a good source for parts. These old threads bring back memories.
John Deere developed the corn head grease for the corn header gear boxes. They have an input shaft and multiple output shafts. With all those seals, thay had troubles keeping the lube in there. The thixotropic stuff did the job and works a lot like the mixture of gear lube and soda soap that was used back in the day. This thickened mixture would stay in the housing better and still ooz into the u-joint bushings to keep them lubed. JD corn head grease and a few other thixotropics will do the same job. The picture was from near 10-years ago so it is gone now. Likely a photobucket deal. |
11-05-2019, 07:05 PM | #28 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Bought a few tubes of John Deere thinking it would solve the issue with some vendors' 600wt which is modern SAE 140 oil, too thin. Using the cornehad in the ujoint became liquified and tended to drip a little. Using it at the steering gear was a little better because it is not being churned by continuous motion. I use modern SAE 250 or better in the pumpkin and tranny.
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11-05-2019, 07:24 PM | #29 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Probably because his post is 8 years old and the pictures got moved or deleted from wherever Tom keeps his pictures.
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11-05-2019, 07:29 PM | #30 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Oops, sorry rotorwrench, didn't see you already answered that.
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11-05-2019, 08:26 PM | #31 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
For What It's Worth....
I can't remember when last I gave the u-joint a shot of grease. I do check & top off the tranny. Out put shaft bearing is 'sealed'...except of course the splines on the shaft which feed tranny fluid directly to the u-joint. A week ago I removed the u-joint covers to find it full of a black 'slury' made of grease & 600W. 'Home made' worked perfectly. |
11-07-2019, 08:55 PM | #32 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
I thought that worthless Photobucket stopped holding people's pictures hostage, but I guess they are back at it again.
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11-09-2019, 06:35 AM | #33 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
the main question here is how grease a rebuilt and clean u-joint.
best option till now sounds like a mixture of grease and 600w and that in a volume to fill up the u-joint cover... would be interesting to know what Brent is using when he rebuilds his project. |
11-09-2019, 09:48 AM | #34 |
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Re: U-Joint Prepacking
Gee, I might buy it if only they would advertise FREE SHIPPING.
Last edited by old31; 11-10-2019 at 10:21 AM. |
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