condesor

[52merc]

a friend of mine keeps blowing condensors in his 38 coupe so all you spakey guys why?? by the way these are not Asian condensors thanks

[rheltzel]

I've had the same problem...I put a new condenser in and the car will run fine, under varying conditions, for about 40 miles; then I start getting an intermittent miss under load in third gear between about 30 to 60 mph. Doesn't seem to do it as much in 2nd at same rpm's and otherwise runs strong. It's driving me crazy.

[rotorwrench]

The ignition system is a simple system but it needs to have all parts working correctly and in good condition. If the voltage is higher than spec, it will need a ballast resistor to tune the amperage to spec. If the coil is out of spec, it can also cause problems with the breakers & condenser. The whole system should be properly tested to make sure everything is in good condition from the ignition switch to the grounding at the spark plugs.

All that said, the condensers/capacitors are still the weakest link in the chain. Echlin is about the only ones a person can be even a bit trustful of and even they should be checked. The only problem is that few people have a capacitor tester that can check for both capacity and leakage. This stuff ain't what it used to be back in the day but then again, wax paper wasn't a long lasting thing either.

[52merc]

thanks trev

[Tom Walker]

There is a Mini (Leyland) tuning firm over here in the UK who addressed the problem by having condensers made. I kept blowing condensers on my Allard and bought one from them 3 years ago and have not had a problem since. They are expensive ($30) but a half hour race costs £300, and I had ignition failure in 2 races, so long term good value!

If anyone gets to the end of their tether, I can send one out to the States at cost.

Cheers Tom.

[Tom Walker]

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Google "Swiftune competition condenser". Sorry its $45 so may be too dear.

[Y-Blockhead]

Ya pays now or ya pays later, eh?

How many bad condensers/burnt points do you buy (and all the associated grief) before you shell out the $45...

[G.M.]

I posted this many times but here it is again. Take a needle type volt/ohm meter and put it in a high ohm range. Touch the probes, one to the case and the other to the lead then reverse them, the probe that was to the case now go's to the lead. Every time you reverse the probes the needle will jump up about 1/2" depending on what ohm range you are in on the meter and slowly bleed the stored voltage as it drops back to zero. If the needle don't move or go's up like a short the condenser is shot. If it jumps up and bleeds back slowly as described the condenser is good COLD and should start and run the engine for a WHILE. for how long it just depends on how bad the insulation is. Now that we determined the condenser is good COLD you have to heat the condenser up slowly to where if you have tuff fingers you can't hold it for more than 1 to 2 seconds, office fingers and you won't even be able to touch it. Now while it's hot do the same test and a bad one won't act the same, the needle may not move, move slightly or go way up. Digital meters won't work. Save your self a lot of time and test everyone before installing. G.M.

[Mart]

I haven't used a condenser on my early fords for over 10 years. I have been using theses Velleman ignition amplifier kits. It's like the very first sort of electronic ignition that came out, where you keep the points, but discard the condenser.

I googled it and they are available in the USA. It is a kit, you have to build it yourself. It's marketed as a interesting project for an electronics buff, but The two I have been using have performed flawlessly.

I use crab type dizzys completely stock except the condenser is removed.

http://www.designnotes.com/Merchant2...uct_Code=K2543

There may be other suppliers.

Mart.

[rotorwrench]

I had an old 64 T-bird that had the transistorized ignition. The transistors in those would last a long time then crap out. They lasted longer than points & condensers but are impossible to find now. I just converted the old bird back to points & condenser when it went south the last time before I sold it.

Maybe the later type transistors are better now than thos old Motorola & RCA ones were back in the day.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Any time a piece of the ignition is going bad frequently its one of two problems. 1-Incorrect voltage or 2-Heat which could be caused by the voltage......

Using a dvom ( or a scope if posible) check the running voltage of the primary ignition system. Normal; would be 100-150 volts. Incorrect coil could cause a higher voltage as well as high secondary demands etc...

rotor wrench is correct in his post as well...

[Tom Walker]

Bubba please explain in more detail. Do you really mean 150 volts in the primary circuit?

[ken ct]

Try an { IH-200 } from NAPA about $6. Ive had good luck with them. OMO. ken ct.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by Tom Walker

Bubba please explain in more detail. Do you really mean 150 volts in the primary circuit?

Yes the coil is a transformer changing the low voltage 12 volts ( or 6) to 20,000 volts by using a 100 (or more) turns ratio winding. When the coil releases lets say 4000-5000 volts to ignite the air fuel mix at the spark plug , as the primary windings are attached to the secondary winding it will receive a 150-200 volt inductive kick back thru the primary.
As the firing voltages increase so does the primary inductive kick..this is a problem on a late model electronic engine but not so on a 49 ford etc...
This inductive kick is used by the engine tester machines to determine if the secondary ignition has a problem as soon as its hooked up with engine running.

Late fords have a code in the ecm to id an ignition problem : code 18 is a IDM (ignition diagnostic monitor) failure caused by a high primary kick leading us to a high secondary voltage and a problem.

I have seen many 500 to 600 volt primary kicks on a broke ignition.
Good news is it is a very low ( mili) current volt spike...

[D. Jones]

Ken,

Your NAPA is a lot more reasonable than mine. I bought an IH-200 from my local NAPA for $11.00 and change. The counter guys I knew all retired, like me. The good news is it has lasted quite a bit longer than any of the others I've tried. I've had some go out in fifty miles or so.

Originally Posted by ken ct

Try an { IH-200 } from NAPA about $6. Ive had good luck with them. OMO. ken ct.

[52merc]

well this is happening about the same as yours d jones

[ken ct]

Originally Posted by D. Jones

Ken,

Your NAPA is a lot more reasonable than mine. I bought an IH-200 from my local NAPA for $11.00 and change. The counter guys I knew all retired, like me. The good news is it has lasted quite a bit longer than any of the others I've tried. I've had some go out in fifty miles or so.

I thought all napa stores were about the same as far as price.Id have to look at the past slip from the last batch I bought. I know it wasen't anyway near $11+ WOW. ken ct.

[CC33]

Originally Posted by G.M.

I posted this many times but here it is again. Take a needle type volt/ohm meter and put it in a high ohm range. Touch the probes, one to the case and the other to the lead then reverse them, the probe that was to the case now go's to the lead. Every time you reverse the probes the needle will jump up about 1/2" depending on what ohm range you are in on the meter and slowly bleed the stored voltage as it drops back to zero. If the needle don't move or go's up like a short the condenser is shot. If it jumps up and bleeds back slowly as described the condenser is good COLD and should start and run the engine for a WHILE. for how long it just depends on how bad the insulation is. Now that we determined the condenser is good COLD you have to heat the condenser up slowly to where if you have tuff fingers you can't hold it for more than 1 to 2 seconds, office fingers and you won't even be able to touch it. Now while it's hot do the same test and a bad one won't act the same, the needle may not move, move slightly or go way up. Digital meters won't work. Save your self a lot of time and test everyone before installing. G.M.

Just had a similar experience with my '33. Idle was fine, but stuttered upon acceleration. Checked fuel pump and carb, then pulled the condenser. It read a 2 meg ohm short at a cold reading. Then I gave it a little heat and retested. The short increased to a 1/2 meg ohm. I know that doesn't sound like much, but I am sure it was faulty. I just so happened to have a few replacements on the shelf. Testing the new one cold, it was free of any short. A quick road test and problem solved.
(But what a pain in the arse spot to put a condenser!)

[CC33]

Um, the Napa IH-200 is the wrong design for my '33.

Mac's has part #47-11953-1 for $7.95, which is the correct design for my application.

[4dFord/SC]

Originally Posted by CC33

Um, the Napa IH-200 is the wrong design for my '33.

They're not a direct replacement for any of the Ford condensers. On my '40, it's mounted to one of the coil bolts with the included strap, and the pigtail is connected to the terminal on the tang where the original condenser would have been mounted. I imagine a similar setup would work on '33.